Drive shaft

[2me]

Hi,
Newbie here...
I'm starting to build up my Jeep Unlimited Sport this summer.
I'm starting with Metal Cloak 3.5 lift & fenders.
What brand drive shaft do you recommend?
I've heard about Tom Wood and Coast with Spicer u-joints.
Also what brand of gears?
I'll be using 5.13 gears, just don't know brands.
What have you used?
Your thoughts?
Thanks,
Jimbo

[WhiteRavenRR]

Welcome to the forums!

I've heard good things about Tom Wood driveshafts. I'm only running 2.5" lift so I haven't had to mess with them.

Why the 5.13 gears? That will be a small pinion on a Dana 30 front axle. What's the biggest size tires that you plan to run? Again, 35" tires will be pushing it. I'm not saying that you can't go bigger. That's a whole different debate that I'm not getting into. Are you running a manual or auto, 3.8 or 3.6? What kind of wheeling do you plan on doing and how often?

There's more details in choosing the right equipment that you need to elaborate on.

The Metalcloak lift is a nice looking lift from what I can tell online. I would like to see one in person someday.

Again, welcome to the forums and good luck on the build. Post some pics as you go along.

Keith

[2me]

Hey Keith!

Thank you for the welcome!

OK here are some details:
2014 Unlimited 3.6 automatic 3.21 gears stock tires an wheels (and it is slow).
I bought it knowing we will build it up for running trails, so we bought a Sport since we will be replacing a lot of stuff.

My wife and I both teach, so we have weekends (and it still amazes me, even after all of these years, we have the entire summers off).
So we plan to join the local Jeep clubs and have fun here in Florida, then as we get more experienced with the Jeep we will branch out to other states.
Our goal is to travel out West and travel the Western trails, Easter Jeep week.
So we will be wheeling at least two times a month during the school year and as much as financially possible during the summer months.
I only drive 14 miles to work so that is not a big deal as a dd.

I've lusted after Jeeps for decades, and finally got a chance to buy one, my only regret is not buying one in my younger years.

The Jeep is being built around the 37" tires, that way we will be able to tackle every thing from here in Florida and out West.

I'm a believer in "buy once, cry once" philosophy.

Parts:
So we are getting 37" Nitto Trail Grabbers, with ATX Beadlock wheels
5.13 gears
Artec Axel truss
eventually chrome molly shafts

I ordered the Metal Cloak 3.5 suspension with the six pack and Metal Cloak fenders, Front bumper, and rock rails, LED light.
Pretty much a full wrap except for the rear bumper/tire carrier.
I ordered them from Metal Cloak this weekend since they are having free shipping for the Memorial day weekend!
Saved a bunch in shipping cost!


I do need to get a front drive shaft before the kit arrives.
But I am not familiar with the reputation of the different brands...

I'll take some pics starting as stock and as it's built up.

Thanks again!

[WhiteRavenRR]

Sounds like you have a plan. Make sure you get some gussets for the inner C's. Those are some big wheels and tires to be running on a Dana 30 front axle and a 5.13 R&P. Go easy on the skinny pedal. You may end up replacing the whole front axle and/ or axle shafts sooner rather than later.

[JeepLab]

Hey All!

I was marooned on a desert island, but im back.

Raven, thanks for watching the place. LOL

2me, Here's my opinion on your shopping list -

-37s Good, but, the grappler is a heavy tire. If you are not planning a power mod, you should consider shopping for the lightest possible tire to preserve the power of your 3.6.

-5.13s, This is a LOT of gear. If you are planning to get on board with Jeeping around the country, Easter Jeep etc, you will have to take some road trips. Road trips mean you will want to cruise on the highway also. The auto has a very low first gear. If you havent driven a Jeep with 37s, anything above 4.10 will be a new world coming from 3.21 gears.

When you look at the widely accepted "gears chart" make sure you are reading the line for 35" tires. Your 37s are really 35s according to that chart. I cost me a BUNDLE to learn this.

I think 4.88s is the sweet spot for what you are trying to do. As far as a gear company, YUKON. You might spend a little more for them, but they are silent, and the customer service is unparralelled. I just had a devil of a time with axles and the yukon guys completely hung in there with me while we trouble shot the system with a bunch of variables.

Artec axle truss - I LOVE IT> I think it makes the D30 into a D44 durability wise. So go ahead and rock the 37s confidently.

[WhiteRavenRR]

Welcome back! I tried to keep the place clean.

[2me]

Hey Ross,
Thank you for your response.
What would be considered a light tire?

I bought the Jeep lifetime warranty, I still lose sleep over that decision...
But I'm concerned that supercharging will cause a problem with the warranty, your thoughts?

I was reading the 37" part of the chart.
How do I calculate the RPM and optimal gear for the highway speeds?

Any other thoughts on this build?

[JeepLab]

Hey Ross,
Thank you for your response.
What would be considered a light tire?

I bought the Jeep lifetime warranty, I still lose sleep over that decision...
But I'm concerned that supercharging will cause a problem with the warranty, your thoughts?

I was reading the 37" part of the chart.
How do I calculate the RPM and optimal gear for the highway speeds?

Any other thoughts on this build?

I love the build. Jesse (snarf) just did a full game changer so he can answer any questions about that. He hasnt done drive shafts yet.

If you go to tire rack, they show you the tire's weight. The lightest when I last looked was the BFG KM2.

wheels are also important. they need to be light to. BB's wheel tire combo is around 100lbs. They are the lightest 37's im aware of on earth.

Black Betty, Sweet Pea, Jessee's Girl, all wear bfg KM2s. Tonka wears Mudd Grapplers. That is a tire I'd avoid.

The Second Runner Up to the KM2 was the goodyear MTR thats a little heavier, but people say its more "true to size". If you get that im going to want a full review.

Everything is going to feel like a dog with the gears you have. Ignore that and make a good decision with the gear chart. You do not want to tear your truck's spine out more than once. You dont want wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sounds from your axles if a berring gets damaged, or a seal.

There is a lot that can go wrong that will leave nagging problems. So pick the right gear ratio the first time. And the right shop. Somewhere close to home.

Warranty- if you cancel it when its new, they give your money back. If you want a turbo or a supercharger, cancel it. Your already gearing, so the gears, carrier, axles, all have voided warranty.

[JeepLab]

I was reading the 37" part of the chart.
How do I calculate the RPM and optimal gear for the highway speeds?

your truck is comfortable under 2500 rpm. if you naturally cruise at 70mph, find the gear that is highest, but not over 2500 rpm at 70 mph.

I think I like 4.56 for your gear set. Others will say im nuts. At 4.88 you will struggle to get to 70.

If 70 is slow, and you want to cruise faster, 4.10s.

[2me]

I'd rather have more power for wheeling down the trails than speeding down the highway, that said, I can tolerate 70 mph or less on a highway trip, this Jeep is for wheeling!

I will call and cancel the lifetime warranty, that will
give me more immediate cash for the first part of the build up.

Update:
Checked on the lifetime policy, I can cancel it with a 5% loss. However the rest of the money goes to the lien holder - my bank.

FYI (I'm sure you know this already)
If you intend to do any mods, it's best not to get the extended or lifetime warranty).

I immediately regretted buying that warranty.
Because I bought the jeep with the intention of building it up for wheeling.
But since I keep my trucks for a very long time.
I thought it was a great idea at the moment.


Hey Snarf !
How do you like you MC Game Changer lift?
2.5 or 3.5" lift?
What shocks did you get?
Anything you would do differently?

Thanks again,
Jim

[JeepLab]

I'd rather have more power for wheeling down the trails than speeding down the highway, that said, I can tolerate 70 mph or less on a highway trip, this Jeep is for wheeling!

I will call and cancel the lifetime warranty, that will
give me more immediate cash for the first part of the build up.

Update:
Checked on the lifetime policy, I can cancel it with a 5% loss. However the rest of the money goes to the lien holder - my bank.

FYI (I'm sure you know this already)
If you intend to do any mods, it's best not to get the extended or lifetime warranty).

I immediately regretted buying that warranty.
Because I bought the jeep with the intention of building it up for wheeling.
But since I keep my trucks for a very long time.
I thought it was a great idea at the moment.


Hey Snarf !
How do you like you MC Game Changer lift?
2.5 or 3.5" lift?
What shocks did you get?
Anything you would do differently?

Thanks again,
Jim

where did you end up on the gear chart? still 5.13?

[WhiteRavenRR]

5.13 is still small for a D30, to me. From what I have seen there is barely over 1 gear tooth in contact between the pinion and the ring. Turning heavy 37's is just asking for trouble. I was looking at the 5.13 but I'm running small 35's with. 3.8l. I will probably go 4.88 as a compromise between the rpm's and R&P gear tooth size but with a 3.6 I could see the 4.56 as a viable option.

[Snarf77]

Hey Snarf !
How do you like you MC Game Changer lift?
2.5 or 3.5" lift?
What shocks did you get?
Anything you would do differently?

Thanks again,
Jim

Jim,
Thanks for the post. I got the full MC gamechanger with 3.5 inches of lift. I have the 6 pack shocks...they are pretty nice.

I've been completely satisfied with the lift's performance thus far. The build quality from MC is fantastic. The install went well, with only one challenge with the inner fender liners in the passenger side front (that I resolved). It handles 10x better than stock on the road and very well off road too.

I really need to get it aired down and remove one more section of bump stop to see how it goes. The current bump stopping is really limiting my up travel (because I"m on 37km2s).

If I had to do it again, and I were TIGHT on my budget, You could get the gamechanger without the 6 pack shocks and still have an amazing system that bolts to stock locations and works great. You could upgrade down the line.

The front driveshaft will surely fail at its current angle. that's when I'll upgrade that.

[2me]

Hey Snarf77 !
Thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated.
I ordered the Metal Cloak 3.5" lift with the six packs and the full Metal Cloak wrap, front & rear bumpers, fenders, rails & rear LED lights.
Should be arrive in 4-5 weeks.

As far as the gears I looked the chart over again & Ross & WhiteRavenRR are right, the 4.88's is a better fit.

Snarff77, I'll go with the Yukon front drive shaft and chromoly front axels.

I'll also put the full Artec Axels in the front and back at the same time as the lift install.

I don't want to baby this Jeep, I want to be able to run it hard.

Supercharging/turbocharging, I'm following these threads closely, hopefully I'll be able to add one next year.
Any other thoughts?

Thanks again!

[JeepLab]

Hey Snarf77 !
Thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated.
I ordered the Metal Cloak 3.5" lift with the six packs and the full Metal Cloak wrap, front & rear bumpers, fenders, rails & rear LED lights.
Should be arrive in 4-5 weeks.

As far as the gears I looked the chart over again & Ross & WhiteRavenRR are right, the 4.88's is a better fit.

Snarff77, I'll go with the Yukon front drive shaft and chromoly front axels.

I'll also put the full Artec Axels in the front and back at the same time as the lift install.

I don't want to baby this Jeep, I want to be able to run it hard.

Supercharging/turbocharging, I'm following these threads closely, hopefully I'll be able to add one next year.
Any other thoughts?

Thanks again!

4.88 sounds like a level more aggressive than Black Betty with the gearing. Especially if your going to supercharge or turbo the truck. I think thats your sweet spot if you don't care about fast highway cruising.

Its snarf's gear ratio with 37s and no power mod.

[2me]

Thanks for the reply.

On a stock 3.6 would the 4.56 give me enough low end power?

Thanks again!

[2me]

PS
I went to the dealership and canceled the lifetime warranty.
They'll apply the balance to the loan.

[2me]

Snarf77
On the Metal Cloak lift, they suggest relocating some of the exhaust.
Did you relocate/replace your exhaust, what with?

Thanks again

[JeepLab]

Thanks for the reply.

On a stock 3.6 would the 4.56 give me enough low end power?

Thanks again!

If you don't care about highway cruising then go 4.88.

I need to be fast on the highway. Getting passed bothers me.

[2me]

What speeds are you talking about cruising at?

What speed is possible with 4.88, 4.56?

Will one or the other or both give me enough grunt power for climbing and wheeling?

Or since it is going to be in 4 low it wont matter?

Again, I'm totally new to the gearing.
Thanks again,

[JeepLab]

I don't like getting passed either...:cool:

I like going fast too, the more I think about it, the more I want a high cruising speed, it is about 2,100 miles to Moab from here in Maitland, Florida.

What speeds are you talking about cruising at?

What speed is possible with 4.88, 4.56?

Will one or the other or both give me enough grunt power for climbing and wheeling?

Or since it is going to be in 4 low it wont matter?

Again, I'm totally new to the gearing.
Thanks again,

Study the truth about gears thread. There is soo much in there. Here is the short answer -

I consider "cruising" to happen at 2500 rpm or less. This is where your truck will drive without you flexing your leg to press the gas pedal to maintain speed. This is how I can tell how awful long distance would be being over geared. Driver fatigue would set in. with 4.10s, i would do 5 hrs at a clip and still be ready to continue, BECAUSE she would effortlessly cruise at 75 mph in the low 2k RPMS

with the 4.88 Gearing and the 37 inch km2s, Betty would spin close to 3k to maintain 70 mph. So it was a drastic loss in cruise for me. Keeping my foot on the gas to maintain highway speed made me want to die.

Changed again to 4.56 and lost some of the pure crawl of the 4.88s. but she can cruise at 70mph at about 2300 rpm, so at 2500 im at about 73mph. And I can live with that. Acceleration is better, and crawl is better than 4.10s, but without completely turning betty into a pig on the highway.

[2me]

Thanks JeepLab, I'll re-read the Truth About Gears now that I know a bit more.
It will be more relevant.
Thanks again!

[2me]

JeepLab,
When I do get a supercharger/turbo, does this change the desired gearing?
Thanks

[JeepLab]

JeepLab,
When I do get a supercharger/turbo, does this change the desired gearing?
Thanks

YES.

thats why i say to do the forced induction mod first. Same way if you dumped a v8 into your rig, the power vs gearing would be different.

Perfect gearing without the SC or turbo, becomes OVERGEARED when the SC or turbo is added.

[2me]

"Perfect gearing without the SC or turbo, becomes OVERGEARED when the SC or turbo is added."

Hmmm,
I am already ordered the Metal Cloak 3.5 lift with the six pack shocks plus the full wrap fenders & bumpers.
A pretty big hit.
I probably won't be able to do the super/turbo for 6-9 months... Or longer.
So I'm still stuck which gear to get for the Nitto 37" aka as 35" in real life.

3.21 = 1,791 rpm @ 70 mph - out
3.73 = 2,081 rpm @ 70 mph - out
4.10 = 2,288 rpm @ 70 mph
4.56 = 2,544 rpm @ 70 mph
4.88 = 2,723 rpm @ 70 mph - out

So in your opinion will the 4.10 or 4.56 work well in the non super/turbo charged 3.6 ?
As well as
Super/turbo charged 3.6 with 37" / (35" actual ) Nittos ?

I will end up supercharging with RIPP or Magnuson or turboing the 3.6 depending how the Prodigy comes through.
I'm in a quandary since I am already committed to the Metal Cloak lift & full wrap.

JeepLab what are your gears now that you are supercharged with 37" tires?

[WhiteRavenRR]

Try using a tuner in the meantime. It won't be as effective as regearing but it will be cheaper for the here and now. Plus you can recover some of your cost later by selling it when you are ready to regear and/ or SC.

[2me]

Try using a tuner in the meantime. It won't be as effective as regearing but it will be cheaper for the here and now. Plus you can recover some of your cost later by selling it when you are ready to regear and/ or SC.

Thank you, great idea!
AEV Pro?
Other brand?
Thanks again!

[JeepLab]

"Perfect gearing without the SC or turbo, becomes OVERGEARED when the SC or turbo is added."

Hmmm,
I am already ordered the Metal Cloak 3.5 lift with the six pack shocks plus the full wrap fenders & bumpers.
A pretty big hit.
I probably won't be able to do the super/turbo for 6-9 months... Or longer.
So I'm still stuck which gear to get for the Nitto 37" aka as 35" in real life.

3.21 = 1,791 rpm @ 70 mph - out
3.73 = 2,081 rpm @ 70 mph - out
4.10 = 2,288 rpm @ 70 mph
4.56 = 2,544 rpm @ 70 mph
4.88 = 2,723 rpm @ 70 mph - out

So in your opinion will the 4.10 or 4.56 work well in the non super/turbo charged 3.6 ?
As well as
Super/turbo charged 3.6 with 37" / (35" actual ) Nittos ?

I will end up supercharging with RIPP or Magnuson or turboing the 3.6 depending how the Prodigy comes through.
I'm in a quandary since I am already committed to the Metal Cloak lift & full wrap.

JeepLab what are your gears now that you are supercharged with 37" tires?

Im at 4.56 now.

4.10 is good too. Sweet Pea is the Magnuson truck. We are about to bring her to 37"KM2s also, She will stay at 4.10.

Jesse's Girl, Our MetalCloak, soon to be TURBO truck, has 4.88s in it now. So we are going to have a forced induction model, WITH 37" KM2s at each gear level. 4.10, 4.56, 4.88

My money as usual, is on Black Betty's setup. It may end up being moot, as Betty's power is a little higher up the RPM band than Sweet Pea, the 4.56s will keep betty's power band spinning a little faster than the mag with 4.10s. Mags power starts lower, so that should even out.

Jesse, with 4.88s, I think made the mistake of changing gears before forced induction. I think she will end up over-geared. I told him not to sell the 4.10s he took out. He is driving 4 hours to get here, so on the way back we will find out if he wants to pull his hair out with the turbo limited by that gearing....

with 4.10s he could cruise at 90.

[WhiteRavenRR]

Thank you, great idea!
AEV Pro?
Other brand?
Thanks again!

I'm running a Superchips Flashpaq. It seems to do its business but it does have it's limitations. I've read good things about AEV ProCal and it's about half the cost of the Superchips.

[2me]

Im at 4.56 now.

4.10 is good too. Sweet Pea is the Magnuson truck. We are about to bring her to 37"KM2s also, She will stay at 4.10.

Jesse's Girl, Our MetalCloak, soon to be TURBO truck, has 4.88s in it now. So we are going to have a forced induction model, WITH 37" KM2s at each gear level. 4.10, 4.56, 4.88

My money as usual, is on Black Betty's setup. It may end up being moot, as Betty's power is a little higher up the RPM band than Sweet Pea, the 4.56s will keep betty's power band spinning a little faster than the mag with 4.10s. Mags power starts lower, so that should even out.

Jesse, with 4.88s, I think made the mistake of changing gears before forced induction. I think she will end up over-geared. I told him not to sell the 4.10s he took out. He is driving 4 hours to get here, so on the way back we will find out if he wants to pull his hair out with the turbo limited by that gearing....

with 4.10s he could cruise at 90.

JeepLab,
I'm real interested in seeing how Sweetpea will run with 37's & 4.10's and the Magnuson SC.
I'm looking at Magnuson, RIPP or Prodigy in about 6-9 months.

[2me]

Thanks WhiteRavinRR,
I'll check both out.
I've heard a lot of good things about the AEV ProCal as well.
Thanks again

[JeepLab]

JeepLab,
I'm real interested in seeing how Sweetpea will run with 37's & 4.10's and the Magnuson SC.
I'm looking at Magnuson, RIPP or Prodigy in about 6-9 months.

I think we have a long arm planned for sweet pea. As soon as we get it installed ill beat up pete to get on here and give you all a first hand account.

I can tell you now how it will drive... Fast. Powerful. Betty was plenty fast with 4.10s and 37s. Sweet pea has a TINY bit more low end grunt. Keep in mind, all our trucks are manual trans. So auto may differ.

With 37s and 4.10, she will stay fast, as we will pick light wheels for her, and obviously the km2 is the lightest 37 available. 1st thru 5th will be speed gears, 6th will be a highway cruising gear. She will cruise at 80 MPH at about 2500 RPM in 6th gear. This gear set up is OPTIMAL for long distance driving. WHILE the Rubicon's 4 to 1 transfer case will keep her agressive off road.

At 2500 RPM BB cruises at about 72 MPH with the same tires and 4.56 gearing.

When picking between the 3 power mods, there are pros and cons to each, AND your driving style will come into play also.