Prodigy Performance 3.6 Turbo DIY Install

[UselessPickles]

Welcome to my DIY install thread for the Prodigy performance turbo kit for the 3.6 Pentastar (2012+) Wrangler!

I am not a mechanic. I have no training. I just have basic tools, a few non-basic tools, basic DIY experience, general mechanical understanding of how things work, a desire to make stuff happen, and the ability to follow directions.

This first post is reserved to be updated to contain general summary/FAQ info, as well as a "table of contents" list of links to specific milestones or posts of interest later in this thread.


Table of Contents
(links to specific points of interest within this thread)

Stage 1

Unboxing the kit (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1760&viewfull=1#post1760)
Early Driving Impressions (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1859&viewfull=1#post1859)
Off-Road Impressions (with video) (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1906&viewfull=1#post1906)
Full Install Details (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1999&viewfull=1#post1999)

Stage 2 Upgrade

Intercooler and BOV unboxed (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2557&viewfull=1#post2557)
Installation (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3421&viewfull=1#post3421)
Alternate boost source for wastegate (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3590&viewfull=1#post3590)
Boost curve (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3577&viewfull=1#post3577)

Misc

Minimum 2" Lift Recommendation (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1824&viewfull=1#post1824)
Coolant HOAT vs OAT Warning (You will probably spill some coolant and need to top off after the install) (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1878&viewfull=1#post1878)
Recurring air in cooling system after install (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3508&viewfull=1#post3508)
Suggested tightening order to get all the exhaust stuff to fit nicely (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3469&viewfull=1#post3469)



Turbo Sounds! (stage 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cyAZSDR_m8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cyAZSDR_m8


Pictures! (stage 1)

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_top.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_side.jpg


Pictures! (stage 2)

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/under_hood_top_update1.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/under_hood_side_update1.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_and_grill_installed.jpg


Turbo Sounds! (stage 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kfYyeRwRSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kfYyeRwRSI

More Turbo Sounds! (stage 2, Precision turbo upgrade)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCzCAcfajU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCzCAcfajU

Turbo on the Sand Dunes! (stage 2, Precision turbo upgrade)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7srHlR_Glw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7srHlR_Glw

[UselessPickles]

After much waiting, my turbo kit arrived today! Let's jump straight into unboxing pics!

Small box is marked as 22 pounds on the shipping label, and the large box is marked as 64 pounds.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/boxes.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/turbo_box.jpg


TURBO!

The small box contains only the turbo itself.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/turbo_compressor.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/turbo_turbine.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/turbo_front.jpg


The big box contains everything else:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/open_box.jpg


Air filter:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/filter_side.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/filter_top.jpg


Exhaust pipes from the engine to the turbo:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/pipes1.jpg


Exhaust pipes from the turbo back to the OEM "cat-back" system. Downpipe and catalytic converter:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/pipes2.jpg


The air charge pipe and silicone couplers, between the turbo and the throttle body.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/charge_pipe.jpg


Various hoses (oil return line, heater hoses, etc):

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/hoses.jpg


Wastegate:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/wastegate.jpg


MAP sensor and fuel injectors:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/map_and_injectors.jpg


Diablosport InTune. Literally a "handheld" tuner!

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/intune.jpg


Nicely organized and labeled bags of smaller parts:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/bags1.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/bags2.jpg


And for the fun of it, we temporarily (and loosely) pre-assembled the major components to get a general overview of how it all connects:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/preassembled1.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/unboxing/preassembled2.jpg

[Snarf77]

Beautiful! More! More!

[JeepLab]

This deserves a sticky....

[2me]

Can't wait to see the install and see how much power you get!
2me

[UselessPickles]

This deserves a sticky....

That's what she said...


You guys will have to remain patient. My main focus will be to work through the install and get some seat time. I'll be taking lots of pictures along the way and keeping notes, but I'd rather get through the install quickly and smoothly than take time away from it to post updates :-p

I also have a family event this weekend and a wedding anniversary to celebrate. All this together means that it could be a while before I have a chance to gather/organize my thoughts and sift through pictures to post all the nitty gritty details. In the meantime, I'll at least find time to post some general updates :)


I spent several hours last night reviewing the contents of the kit and the install guide, mentally walking through the install and making a list of additional items I need to obtain before beginning the install. I think I'm mentally prepared now. Now I just need to stop at a few stores after work to pick some things up and try to get to bed early so I can be well rested for a long day of installation tomorrow.

[JeepLab]

You have no choice but to call in sick when a turbo is at the door!

[DHewes]

Didn't add the blanket?

[2me]

That wast gate is amazing looking!

[2me]

Do you have a phone that has an time delay video feature App on it like" ilaspe" ?
Yon set it & forget it while it makes time delayed shots...

[jeepsking]

Hi, first post (so interested).

Looks like they have changed the turbo.

[JeepLab]

Hi, first post (so interested).

Looks like they have changed the turbo.

Welcome! Good to have you.

Pickles is out in front on the Turbo, he's pretty good with updates, and should be working today...

Cant wait to see how it goes.

[UselessPickles]

Looks like they have changed the turbo.

What part looks changed?



I did not finish the install today. That's what happens when you're not a seasoned professional with all the know-how and a fully stocked shop.

I put about 10 hours into it today and basically got up the the point where I'm about to actually start doing exciting stuff like removing factory exhaust and installing the main turbo components. Don't expect any updates tomorrow, because I'll be spending quality time time with my wife in celebration of our 10 year anniversary.

General feedback so far is that working on cars is a pain in the butt :)

* Those phillips head plastic clips holding the air dam on are a pain. Probably took me a half hour just to get the thing off. I eventually just drilled the last 2 out (which was still more difficult than expected). I'll buy replacements later.

* Draining the radiator is a mess. And it drains slowly.

* Removing coolant hoses is a pain. Especially hoses that still have some coolant in them.

* Those plastic barbed anchored zip-tie things that hold hoses and wiring everywhere are a paint to pop out.

* The plastic barbed push-in clips that hold the inner fender liner are a pain to remove. I ended up giving up on one and cutting the head of it off with side cutters.

* The plastic clips that secure the fuel line connector to the fuel rail are flimsy and have no obvious correct removal technique. I broke them. Have to buy the fuel line just to get the clips, and it was on back-order locally. Dealer could place a special order from an out-of-state warehouse for no additional cost, but it wouldn't get here until next Wednesday or Thursday. I had the option to pay an extra $13 for overnight shipping, but I missed the cut-off time, so it ships tomorrow. No weekend deliveries, so it arrives on Monday. Afterwards, when it was time to reconnect the fuel line, I decided to attempt a ghetto fix with duct tape and a zip tie holding the broken clips snugly in place. IT WORKED! I think. I'll find out for sure when I start the engine if there's no fuel leak there. It was at least secure enough that I couldn't pull the fuel line off. It just might hold me over til next week when I get the replacement.

Basically, all aspects of disassembly of original parts on the vehicle are a pain. All aggravation and cursing today was caused my attempting to remove OEM parts.

[JeepLab]

That plastic front air dam has no business being there. Complete garbage.

[Pznivy]

That plastic front air dam has no business being there. Complete garbage.

Agreed on the air dam.

with the inner flares etc, you just yank the xmas trees and keep it moving. Don't worry about breaking them, you can get a bag of them cheap and put in new ones for a tight fit. Ive never liked re-useing plastic bits, they never feel the same after the first time you pull them out.

10 hours is a long time to work and not get to the meat and potatoes of the install, but better to take your time and make sure everything is right rather than screw up some small detail and have to take everything apart again. That is a nightmare.

[Timmy]

Can't wait to see this completed and get his honest feeling on a turbo. I'm saving for a Magnuson SC right now. My gutt says, do what the German's do (sorry, I'm an Audi fan.) Audi puts screw type SC's on their V6's instead of turbo's (and I believe they only use Eaton SC's, just like Magnuson uses.) My A4 has the turbo, and while they are fun, they do take longer to spin up. When I drive my Audi after driving my Jeep, I notice just HOW LONG it takes the turbo to spin up. Don't get me wrong, I get to 60 mph faster, but the Jeep is more fun off the line even without a SC/Turbo. I'm sure Prodigy tuned the Jeep so the turbo hits faster in a V6 than it does in a V4, but the reality is, you still need enough exhaust gas to get that sucker going and that turbo looked HUGE in his pics. Most German vehicles with V6's go with smaller twin-turbo's so they spin up quicker.

As a side note... I love all the supercharger/turbo comments I read over the years where people say "and I'm getting better gas mileage." Really, better gas mileage out of a device who's soul purpose in life is to put more air into the cylinder so you can add MORE gas for a larger explosion? If you are getting better mpg out of adding a device like this, or chipping a device that already has one (like I did with my Audi) then you simply are not driving it correctly. You're suppose to be driving it like a bat-at-o-hell :cool:

BTW... JEEPLAB... Where is that side-by-side zero to 60 drag race video of your RIPP and Manguson Jeep's? The other vid's with the lap timers are nice and all, but I want to see a side-by-side race of those suckers...

[jeepsking]

Well. The anti surge ports on compressor inlet of the turbo. Thats what they changed

[UselessPickles]

Anti-surge ports and polished compressor housing are upgrade options. The kit is not designed to require the anti-surge ports, so there is no performance benefit to them. They simply offer the options for appearances.

Btw. The 10 hours of work included a lunch break, time spent gathering tools and setting up my work area, nearly 2 hours of driving around to the dealer to order a replacement fuel line and to other stores to get other stuff I needed. Then there was also the general "slow and steady" approach.

I had a lucky break. My fuel line got ordered from a Denver warehouse which is 2 hours behind me. It met their shipping cutoff time and the overnight shipping got it delivered this morning!

Things are falling into place to complete the install tomorrow.

[jeepsking]

Aha. Didn't know that. Hope u get everything soon. Wish u All the best with ur install and no more issues :)

[Deola]

Good luck man, hope it's a smooth install

[UselessPickles]

Finished around 2:00 am this morning. 17 hours with only a few breaks. A friend also stuck by my side til the end and provided much help. I'm exhausted.

It goes.

I haven't driven it enough yet to really comment on driveability, other than it definitely goes, and the whoosh of the wastegate is music to my ears.

[Gunner]

Awesome. Take a well deserved break and when you can some pictures.

[DHewes]

Awesome - great work. Looking forward to your well rested opinion.

[Timmy]

That's like a doctor going through heart surgery and then coming out and telling the family "they're alive, can't say much more than that, we'll chat tomorrow." Hahaha... Nice job good sir, can't wait to read the future reports.

[Rexx19]

27 hour total install...

Did you run into roadblocks? What is your level of mechanical understanding? You seem like professor turbo so far.

[JeepLab]

Thats not a hard 27. Pickles may have been documenting and taking pictures etc.

Show us what you've got pickles!

Also, you don't speed thru an install when you are the first to do it.

Pickles, tell if there is anything that others should look out for when installing.

[UselessPickles]

That 27 hour total includes:

- Setting up my work area in the driveway, and cleaning up the driveway of tools and parts at the end of the day, 2 times.
- Lunch, dinner, and other various short breaks.
- Running around to stores/dealer for 2 hours trying to get replacement fuel line clips and some wrenches in sizes that I didn't have (which didn't even end up helping me; you'll get details of this saga when I do my detailed install writeup).
- Taking pictures.
- Never rushing to do anything, taking my time and double/triple checking things along the way.
- Re-routing various hoses/etc multiple times until I found the path that I was the most happy with (instructions don't attempt to fully detail exact routing paths).
- Cleaning up coolant spills multiple times. Even when you think a hose is done spewing coolant, you move it again a few hours later and more comes out!
- Being cautious and frustrated because of stubborn bolts in tight places.

I am not a pro at all. This is the most in depth I have ever gotten into working on a car. I've done some work on my motorcycles, but there's much less curse-inducing corrosion on a motorcycle that is never driven on Michigan's winter salted roads.

There were many temporary road blocks for me. A seasoned mechanic would probably have determined the best approach to get things done more immediately, but nearly every step along the way was a new puzzle for me to solve, often with trial and error. Trying to get a wrench on a hard to reach bolt, attempting multiple angles of the wrench and multiple positions of my body, trying standard box and open ended wrenches, socket wrenches with and without various numbers of extensions, etc. The instructions are intended for someone that generally knows how to work on cars already, so they don't detail anything like this. I won't even be able to describe the best way to do these things because I was focused on solving the problem in the moment. Taking time to take clear photos and notes for every detail and trick of every step of the way would have taken forever.


Some teaser pics...


My high tech work area. yes, that's an old counter top on saw horses for a work bench :)

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/work_area.jpg


A little helper:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/removing_upper_intake.jpg


Finishing up in the dark on Saturday night:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/installing_charge_pipe.jpg


Turbo blanket was the final touch installed on Sunday afternoon:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_blanket.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/installing_turbo_blanket.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_blanket_installed.jpg

[JeepLab]

So is it fast?

[UselessPickles]

Does a bear poop in the woods?

[UselessPickles]

They recommend only light/moderate throttle during the first 50 miles.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to really get through that initial 50 miles right away...

They also recommend a minimum 2" lift "for best results". I was caught off guard a bit because this was never mentioned to me. I didn't know until I saw it in the install guide. I have a completely stock Jeep. I had the turbo kit already, and I wasn't going to just return it and abort the install now. I was committed already. I have, of course, recommended to Prodigy that they begin to be more proactive at communicating this recommendation. Prodigy says that their Jeep is doing fine with only a 3/4" spacer lift and that it should be enough lift for me, but the official recommendation remains 2" minimum.

So I have the turbo installed, but no lift kit yet. I thought I could do some test driving while waiting for my Daystar 3/4" lift to arrive later this week. I quickly learned that street driving without any lift at all is a bad idea. Medium bumps (relative to Michigan road bumps) and moderate braking cause the front driveshaft to contact the downpipe. Prodigy has suggested that I could gain a little more clearance by pushing the exhaust pipes in the desired direction while all exhaust bolts are loose, and continue holding while the bolts are tightened.

Again, there's some wiggle room that could have given me a bit more clearance if I was thinking about it at the time I tightened everything, but from where things stand on my jeep right now, this is what I observe: When someone stands on the front bumper and bounces the suspension, I can see the front jounce bumper (yellow squishy thing inside the spring) contact the bump stop and just about the same time I hear the clink of the driveshaft touching the downpipe. The jounce bumper is capable of full compression before a hard bottoming out of the suspension. This means I need a bump stop extension at least as long as the jounce bumper to prevent damage to the downpipe under full suspension compression. I measured the jounce bumper at about 1.75". A 2" bump stop extension would give me about 0.25" clearance under absolute maximum physically possible compression. No sense only installing a bump stop extension, so a 2"+ lift with 2"+ bump stop extension makes sense (NOTE: the bump stop extensions are the important part to absolutely guarantee no clearance issues!)

Based on these observations/measurements, I am not comfortable with trying only a 3/4" lift. I want to be 100% sure that I will never have any contact, even when I accidentally drive over the top of a sand dune a bit to fast and catch some air.

I'm picking up the AEV 2" spacer lift kit tomorrow (I'm conveniently only a 15 minute drive away from their office/warehouse, so it's kinda like getting free overnight shipping!). I have a dentist appointment tomorrow after work, and it's supposed to rain on Wednesday. I'll probably install one axle Thursday evening and the other Friday evening so I can finally start some real driving this weekend (including a Sunday trip to an ORV park for off-road testing!)

I was too late on canceling my order for the 3/4" lift, so I have to hope that either my wife or I are home to refuse delivery when it arrives so I can avoid paying for return shipping.

I withheld this info while I worked through the details and my solution to avoid useless emotional ranting. I was mentally and physically exhausted at the time I was initially working through all of this. It would not have been pretty or productive for me to post about it at the time.

In the grand scheme of things, I'm not too bothered about being somewhat forced into a 2" lift (wasn't really forced, because I could have returned the kit when I learned about the recommendation if I really wanted to). I eventually want about a 2" lift and 33" Duratracs anyway. The inconvenience is that I won't be able to afford the tires/wheels for another year or two. I'll have to get used to my jeep looking like this for a while:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e393/klutz1001/1252094143501.jpg (http://s43.photobucket.com/user/klutz1001/media/1252094143501.jpg.html)

I'll get used to it. I can't see the tires from the driver's seat, but I sure can feel and hear the turbo :)
Looking forward to some worry-free driving this weekend!

[Timmy]

Forgive me, but are you serious, you need a lift to prevent the front drive shaft from hitting the downpipe? Wow, don't go over a 3" lift then, because then your drive shaft will hit the exhaust pipe (unless that was relocated.) I'm at a 4" lift, and I already tore my drive shaft boot on the exhaust pipe when my suspension dropped while wheelin'. I just purchased a new front CV driveshaft that is thinner than the stock one to help deal with that. Ugh, the mods never stop once you lift it to correct issues, because somehow Chrysler didn't seem to think that ONLY EVERY JEEP OWNER ON THE PLANET WANTS TO LIFT THEIR JEEP!

[jeepsking]

I don't think that. It wont hit the drive shaft because as per the previous pictures posted it seems that the right side exhaust which comes underneath the shaft is deleted. So no worries. But the lower downpipe which goes behind the engine is the one which is been referred. Am I right jeff?

[UselessPickles]

Wow, don't go over a 3" lift then, because then your drive shaft will hit the exhaust pipe (unless that was relocated.)

With the turbo installed, there is no portion of the exhaust UNDER the driveshaft anywhere, so there is no maximum lift allowed for exhaust clearance. I guess Prodigy assumes that people will lift their Jeeps.

[UselessPickles]

Am I right jeff?

Yes.

I don't seem to have any good pictures of the layout of the pipes underneath. I'll take some pics when I have the front end lifted up for the lift installation.

[JeepLab]

Ugh. I saw that lift required on the first page and thought of you immediately. I just got the manual a day or two ago.

Looks like you've got a grip on it tho. I also would not go out of my way to install it on a jeep that is not completely prepared for it. Meaning cramming it into a truck without the minimum lift. God forbid you damage the pipe and then have some sort of improper air flow later.

Not the end of the world, but that will definately add some hours to your install. trying to figure out milimeters, and then try to predict axle travel...etc. That stuff takes forever. Then you need to work up the spine to test it.

Last thing you want is to be enjoying your turbo at speed and then a pothole really F's up your truck.

[UselessPickles]

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/aev_spacer_lift/aev_building.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/aev_spacer_lift/box.jpg

:)

Not sure when I'll get it installed. I'll probably start working on my detailed turbo install writeup tomorrow evening since it will be raining and I won't be able to install the lift then. I'll be tackling it in small chunks, with small individual posts over the course of several days. Please be patient. I'm still getting caught up on sleep and feeling quite tired. It doesn't help that I dislocated a rib during the install, so my body requires even more rest for healing.

And now that I'm installing a lift, I suppose I'll have to take pictures and start a new thread for that eventually...

[JeepLab]

We finally have tracking for our TURBO!

Now we just need to wait for the prodigy guys to get on a plane and get up here to install it.

[Gunner]

This is fun. Pickles I dislocated a rib under my Jeep the other day. It hurts. I guess I am getting to old to crawl around under there.

[Snarf77]

We finally have tracking for our TURBO!

Now we just need to wait for the prodigy guys to get on a plane and get up here to install it.

Excellent news!

Also - Pickles - I don't think your jeep will look bad at all like the pic you posted. Keep an eye on Craigslist too. If you can save a good deal of money on some wheels or tires you like, then you can bump up your timeline.

[UselessPickles]

We finally have tracking for our TURBO!

Woohoo! Is the plan still to jump straight to stage 2, or are you starting with stage 1?


Pickles I dislocated a rib under my Jeep the other day. It hurts.

Yes, it does. I dislocated a rib last April while installing a child car seat in the back of my jeep (leaned on the car seat too hard while reaching for the latch bracket way down at the bottom of the rear seat). This jeep must hate me.


I don't think your jeep will look bad at all like the pic you posted. Keep an eye on Craigslist too. If you can save a good deal of money on some wheels or tires you like, then you can bump up your timeline.

That picture is a 2-door jeep with 2" lift and factory 29" tires. I have a 2-door jeep with factory 29" tires, and I'm adding a 2" lift. I'm doomed.

I also have very specific tires and wheels picked out already, and I'm not going to compromise just to get bigger tires sooner. I would always be wishing I would have just waited and saved for what I really want.

[UselessPickles]

Early driving impressions (based on VERY limited driving time with notoriously inaccurate butt dyno!)...

It "feels" about the same as stock at low rpms, up to somewhere around 2000-2500 rpm.

Somewhere in the 2000-2500 rpm range, it starts "feeling" noticeably quicker.

Around 3000 rpm, the wastegate starts sounding off, and you begin to grin.

Around 3500 rpm, the wastegate is singing it's heart out, you and your passenger start giggling like Beavis and Butthead.

Starting around 4000 rpm, there's no question that you've about doubled how quickly the jeep can accelerate in that range.

The wastegate sound is truly addicting.

I really like how it sounds very quiet and essentially stock while idling and gently driving around town.

[jeepsking]

Nice to hear that. I know its not legal, but would love to see a comparison with others like GC SRT. If I installed one, I will definitely add boost gauge and AFR gauge for safety.

[Timmy]

Early driving impressions (based on VERY limited driving time with notoriously inaccurate butt dyno!)...

It "feels" about the same as stock at low rpms, up to somewhere around 2000-2500 rpm.

Somewhere in the 2000-2500 rpm range, it starts "feeling" noticeably quicker.

Around 3000 rpm, the wastegate is singing it's heart out, you and your passenger start giggling like Beavis and Butthead.

Starting around 4000 rpm, there's no question that you've about doubled how quickly the jeep can accelerate in that range.

The wastegate sound is truly addicting.

I really like how it sounds very quiet and essentially stock while idling and gently driving around town.


That sounds exactly like my Audi 2.0T with my APR 93 Octane boost code on it. Very sluggish, and then a kick in the butt. Makes 0-8mph very slow, and then 8-100mph very fast ;-)

[UselessPickles]

"Very sluggish" is relative, though. Before adding the turbo, I would not have described my jeep as "very sluggish" below 2500 rpm. In stock form, it reached near peak torque just under 2000 rpm. As far as I can tell, the turbo does not make the jeep any slower below 2500 rpm, it just makes it insanely faster above 2500 rpm, which makes below 2500 feel slow by comparison. If this is anything like their kit for the 3.8 engine, then there's actually a small gain at lower rpm without any losses anywhere.

Also, just got a response about the 50 miles of light/moderate use before full throttle: it's intended to allow the driver acclimate to the increased power. So if you have experience with powerful vehicles already, just ease into it responsibly at your own pace once you have confirmed the install is fully complete with no leaks, etc. I don't have to worry about the fact that I disobeyed this instruction :). I was getting worried that I may have potentially caused bad things by forgetting that instruction. No more holding back! TURBO!

[Jkfletch7]

"Very sluggish" is relative, though. Before adding the turbo, I would not have described my jeep as "very sluggish" below 2500 rpm. In stock form, it reached near peak torque just under 2000 rpm. As far as I can tell, the turbo does not make the jeep any slower below 2500 rpm, it just makes it insanely faster above 2500 rpm, which makes below 2500 feel slow by comparison. If this is anything like their kit for the 3.8 engine, then there's actually a small gain at lower rpm without any losses anywhere.

Also, just got a response about the 50 miles of light/moderate use before full throttle: it's intended to allow the driver acclimate to the increased power. So if you have experience with powerful vehicles already, just ease into it responsibly at your own pace once you have confirmed the install is fully complete with no leaks, etc. I don't have to worry about the fact that I disobeyed this instruction :). I was getting worried that I may have potentially caused bad things by forgetting that instruction. No more holding back! TURBO!

We need some audio! I want to hear this wastegate

[ljvsnyder]

audio and video would be nice. When I first saw that you had a stock sport with 16's and 29" tires, I thought you were going for the sleeper look. Can't wait to hear that turbo wine. I was surprised it isn't intercooled. Congrats on the build.

[JeepLab]

audio and video would be nice. When I first saw that you had a stock sport with 16's and 29" tires, I thought you were going for the sleeper look. .

This thing is Sleeper of the Year.

Dont change a thing. Stock sport with a turbo is hysterical to me.

We need some vid of you smoking an M3.

[UselessPickles]

Sleeper is what I'm going for in general. That's one thing I like about the turbo vs supercharger. The turbo doesn't announce itself until it's too late :)


I was surprised it isn't intercooled.

This is only the stage 1 kit. Stage 2 (not yet released) will have an intercooler and more boost. When I upgrade to stage 2, I plan on blacking out the intercooler to continue the sleeper theme.


Can't wait to hear that turbo wine

There's not really any turbo whine. The turbo itself seems pretty quiet. It's the "whoosh" of air through the wastegate that you mostly hear, then a slightly different "whoosh" of the pressurized intake air flowing backwards out of the air filter when you let off the throttle.

I didn't get a chance to take any video tonight because I was tinkering around with re-routing a hose slightly better and tweaking a few other details of the install. Then it started raining, and then it started RAINING. The rain was so heavy it would have overpowered the turbo sounds. Friday will probably be my next chance, since tomorrow evening is the lift install :)



Dont change a thing. Stock sport with a turbo is hysterical to me.


Stock except for a 2" lift...

I think 33" tires would make it even more of a sleeper. They'll fill the wheel wells nicely and "look" slower :)

[Snarf77]

That picture is a 2-door jeep with 2" lift and factory 29" tires. I have a 2-door jeep with factory 29" tires, and I'm adding a 2" lift. I'm doomed.

I also have very specific tires and wheels picked out already, and I'm not going to compromise just to get bigger tires sooner. I would always be wishing I would have just waited and saved for what I really want.

Not sure the specifics..but the oddest things show up on craigslist. Near me is a brand new set of Duratracs. 3 months ago was a barely used set of 37" KM2s. It does take a bunch of work or a well programmed phone app to find them.

Great write-up. Love the description of all the "wooshes" when driving. I too am looking forward to audio - even though its never the same recorded.

Any hot-spots you've noticed after running hard?

[JeepLab]

Any hot-spots you've noticed after running hard?

dont test with your hand.

[UselessPickles]

Lol...

I have actually confirmed that the turbo blanket is tolerable to the touch immediately after driving. I bet the turbine housing itself is NOT!

I haven't gotten a chance to "run it hard" much yet (waiting for the lift), let alone measure any under-hood temps.

I have an IR temp gun I can use to measure specific items under the hood. This weekend, I will be at an ORV park with some stock 3.6 JKs. I'll bring my temp gun and get some comparison measurements when we stop for lunch.

However... I may end up without a turbo blanket this weekend because I may be sending mine back for an exchange (for cosmetic preferences only; not quality issues). So I might actually get a worst case comparison this weekend without a turbo blanket. I think the best way to compare will be to measure the temp of stock components that are NEAR the turbo components,and a few other places. Forecast is also showing 86*F, so it should be a decent test of under hood heat.

The turbo won't be working hard at the ORV park, but slower off-road driving is where there's the most concern about under-hood heat. All the hot components (turbo, downpipe, wastegate) are conveniently placed right behind the radiator where they should get good airflow when travelling at speed on the roads. I don't expect any problems while street driving at all. The turbo kit also REMOVES two catalytic converters from the engine compartment and places a single high-flow cat down low and behind the engine.

[Snarf77]

Very interested to see those temps. I agree it woudl be nice to test the same surfaces on two jeeps - stock and turbo - to see how different objects are different temps. Various sensors, plastics, etc., surrounding turbo bits. Good idea.

[UselessPickles]

One more issue solved...

The install involves replacing some coolant lines. Even though the radiator is drained and the hoses are mostly empty, there's stiil coolant in places that will spill out. If you're not ready for it, you lose the coolant to the ground.

I'm low on coolant because of this. So I went to the dealer and asked for coolant for my 2013 Wrangler.

Parts: "The purple stuff, right?"
Me: "No, it's red"

Parts guy looks up a reference sheet that says all 2013+ should use the purple OAT coolant (not the older orange/red HOAT). They absolutely CANNOT be mixed!
Looks up my specific VIN, and it shows that it was prepped with OAT coolant. But it's DEFINITELY not purple!

So he sells me the HOAT coolant.

Luckily, I decided to research some more before dumping it in. I found this (Page 4): http://starparts.chrysler.com/newsletters/newsletter_Oct_2012.pdf

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/coolant_warning.jpg

The OAT from the factory is NOT PURPLE! In fact, it looks almost identical to the "service part" HOAT! WTF CHRYSLER!?!?!

So at least I now know that I can confidently pour the purple OAT into my jeep. Need to go back to the dealer and exchange my coolant.


By this weekend, I will have my lift installed, coolant confidently topped off, and will finally be able to stop stressing/worrying about things. I'll be able to just start enjoying my jeep. There's a couple minor odds and ends to tidy up with the install (perfectionist slight re-routing of wire harnesses, etc), but after the lift and coolant, I think I can finally say I'm essentially done installing :)

Sorry for not posting install pics/details yet. I've just been too tired and stressed about stuff like the lift and coolant. I think I will realistically get a chance to relax a bit and start writing up details after this weekend. I'll definitely try to at least get a video clip of the sounds in the next few days.

[UselessPickles]

AEV 2" spacer lift installed:

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10390307_10204139675442146_8246995264633827146_n.j pg

It actually doesn't look bad. The other picture of a 2" lift and 29" tires must have been a spring lift that gave more than 2" of actual lift:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e393/klutz1001/1252094143501.jpg


"2-3 hour install", they said. Started around 7:30 pm and finished around 2:00 am, although there was about an hour lost to a phone call interruption and an unexpected downpour of rain.

Then finally got my first proper test drive with the turbo! It was fun. No more stressing about bumps or braking. There's no chance of unwanted contact at foll suspension compression now.

Now I'm tired and sore all over again. Still need to re-center the steering wheel, get coolant and install my water-resistant pre-filter on my air filter, then I'll be ready to go off road this weekend! Life is good. But my priority right now is to stay awake at work.

[Snarf77]

I want to say "I told you so" that it wouldn't look bad. But I won't. ;)

[2me]

Looks great !
When your feeling better, tell us more about... Well everything about the install and performance.
Not that we're waiting or anything!

[Pznivy]

What is taking soooo long? is it in yet?...LOL

pics? engine bay? under the truck? Thoughts?

JL, don't you have one of these? Is it going in soon?

[UselessPickles]

And I'm back to being exhausted again :)

Busy weekend, including off-roading all day yesterday!

Good news: The turbo did not interfere at all!

Power was never my limitation before (I'm currently limited by traction of the 29" stock tires), so there was really no expectation at all for it to improve my off-road performance. My only hope was that it wouldn't make anything more difficult. I basically never even noticed I had a turbo all day, except for some wastegate noise a few times when I had an opportunity to use some extra throttle going up relatively smooth steep hills. It never abruptly spooled up unexpectedly or otherwise made throttle control difficult.

Here's a sample of what I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOkcGb7Q9A0

As you can see, I don't do anything that is very technical, so I can't comment at all on how it would do in trickier situations like rock crawling.

Listen closely and you can hear the wastegate whooshing a bit near the top of the first hill, just before the sound of squealing tires overpowers it.

I was in 4LO all day, using 1st and 2nd gear for all the interesting parts. I generally stay in lower gears to keep the RPMs up in the mid-range (same technique I always used before the turbo). I had no trouble creeping over/up stuff down around 1000 RPM in 1st gear either. And I only stalled once :)

I never did get a chance to do some side-by-side under-hood temperature comparisons with a stock engine. It was a sunny day, mid/upper 70's, and my temp gauge on the dashboard never budged from the middle. I did quickly check some temps under the hood at one point moments after shutting the engine off, and found nothing scary. Various places ranged from about 170 to 240 degrees. No melting plastic. No glowing red turbo or pipes.

The part of the day where I REALLY noticed benefits of the turbo was during the 170 mile round trip to the ORV park and back. I averaged 25.6 mpg! It was mostly freeway driving in the 70-80 mph range. Before the turbo and lift, I would average somewhere in the 19-21 mpg range for the same trip. Even though I now have to use at least 91 octane, it's an overall savings on fuel. Fuel is about 5% more $/gal compared to 87 octane, but I use about 20% less fuel per mile.

[UselessPickles]

What is taking soooo long? is it in yet?...LOL

pics? engine bay? under the truck? Thoughts?

Life is taking so long :) I've been busy, and life keeps throwing little surprises at the household lately.

There's a few pics back in this post: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1818&viewfull=1#post1818

[jeepsking]

What about on road action. Second gear ,rpm on 2000, then full throttle till 6500, shift to third till 100 mph. (I wana see that plz).

[JeepLab]

What about on road action. Second gear ,rpm on 2000, then full throttle till 6500, shift to third till 100 mph. (I wana see that plz).

Don't go to prison, pickles, We need you right where you are.

[Snarf77]

Excellent video! Way to go wheel-up down that second hill and then up it. I'm revising my statement that your jeep doesn't look bad with that 2" lift. I actually think it looks good that way.

I'm glad to hear that it didn't get super hot anywhere that you noticed; its encouraging for others. It would be a good exercise to, at minimum, run your IR thermostat around the engine bay to find the hottest point after normal or slightly harder street driving.

We do appreciate the updates!

[jeepsking]

Prison!!!! I didn't say on a country road :). U can do it on a drag strip.

[Yoinkers]

When is the JeepLab unit getting installed? You guys have it already now right?

Im looking for dyno numbers. (normally JL is the only place to get them)

[JeepLab]

We have the unit, Just getting our team together for a day when we can tear jesse's jeep to pieces.

[UselessPickles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cyAZSDR_m8

All clips are various amounts of partial throttle, except for the last. Last clip is full throttle in 2nd and 3rd gear. I didn't get to start down at 2000 rpms for that full throttle run because there was traffic behind me on the 40mph road leading into the freeway entrance ramp. I tried twice and had traffic behind me both times. Maybe some other time.

[Pznivy]

Pickles is really doing his part. Go get em pickles!

90 mph!

lets get a 0-60!

[NOLAjeeper]

Hello fellow jeepers! Long time lurker here first time poster.. I've been following this thread since it started on the "omg prodigy turbo" thread. And it has been very very informative! Thank you Ross and Jeff for all the research you guys have done and sharing it with the wrangler community. I have a 2012 unlimited jk auto on 37" mud grapplers, 2.5" AEV dualsport lift, 5.13 gears, full armor, front winch, and other lil mods here and there.. I have purchased this turbo kit as well and should be receiving it early next week, and I can not wait! I will update progression when it happens.

[JeepLab]

Hello fellow jeepers! Long time lurker here first time poster.. I've been following this thread since it started on the "omg prodigy turbo" thread. And it has been very very informative! Thank you Ross and Jeff for all the research you guys have done and sharing it with the wrangler community. I have a 2012 unlimited jk auto on 37" mud grapplers, 2.5" AEV dualsport lift, 5.13 gears, full armor, front winch, and other lil mods here and there.. I have purchased this turbo kit as well and should be receiving it early next week, and I can not wait! I will update progression when it happens.

3 TURBOS?

We are running off the rails now....

Welcome NOLA!

[Rexx19]

NOLA!

Show us some pics of your rig! and its good to have some differences for turbo testing.

Pickles has the extreme base model pure base component testing. JL will do a rubi for a middle of the road build, (more posh)

You have the 5.13s on 37s and will be the first auto we hear from. Thats important. I think the Manuals are easier to tune as the driver can make gear corrections with the stick. So if something is off, you can sometimes correct with drive style.

With the auto, you are at the mercy of the tune. completely at its mercy. The extreme off roaders use autos so your info will be very valuable.

[NOLAjeeper]

Some pics of my rig. Had to copy them off my Instagram since I don't really have that many photos of her.. She's pretty much a city crawler.. Closest thing I get here in New Orleans to off roading is mud/swamp. Stinky clay nasty mud!..828828829830

[JeepLab]

Beach Pic. Very nice.

[jeepsking]

Thanks Jeff for the video :) .

[UselessPickles]

Finally getting started on writing up the install...


First, a reminder that I have very little experience working on cars. I'm not a mechanic. I've done quite a bit with motorcycles: basic maintenance, custom installation of "universal fit" automotive cruise control, valve clearance checks, remove/reinstall suspension components, etc. It turns out that working on a vehicle that is parked outside at all times and is driven year-round in a state that gets snow and salts their roads is tougher than working on a motorcycle that enjoys mostly fair weather riding and is always stored in a garage. Basically, I have tools and I'm not afraid to use them as long as I can find good information about what I need to be doing (factory service manual, online instructions/videos, etc). I have collected a decent range of skills/knowledge about generally working on things, but am not trained or an expert in anything.

This turbo kit is NOT a "simple" DIY install. The target audience of the install guide is someone that knows how to work on cars already, knows the tricks, dos/don'ts, etc. This install put me at the edge of my comfort zone (and maybe a bit beyond) a few times. I'm lucky enough to know some people that have much more experience/knowledge working on vehicles than me. I would not recommend going at this alone, unless you have a very well-stocked tool supply and plenty of experience working on vehicles. Having a friend help out that had additional knowledge/experience and additional tools saved me from some potentially frustrating/discouraging situations. Even if you are an expert, have a competent friend help you. There are some steps that really benefit from an extra set of hands, and its always nice to bounce ideas off another competent person when deciding how to approach a tricky step. It was quite an experience. In the end, I succeeded, and I have gained some new experience/knowledge to increase my confidence in whatever project I tackle next.

If you decide to tackle this as a DIYer, just assume that it will take a couple days to get everything fully complete, take your time, walk away when frustrated, and don't forget to eat. Working on an empty stomach while trying to rush something along is a disaster waiting to happen. Assume you'll have to take time away from the project to run to stores for more tools. I took a day off work for the first day of installing so that I could do it during business hours. This allowed me to run to stores when needed, and also call Prodigy to get questions answered when I needed clarification (better to ask for clarification than to move ahead with an assumption).

And now an apology for not getting full photographic coverage of the install. There were many times I was just "in the zone" doing stuff and didn't stop to take pictures of certain details. I didn't have a dedicated photographer to document the install, so there are very few "action" shots. Feel free to ask for more clear photos from different angles, etc., of things as they are installed in final form, and I will do my best to take additional photos. but I obviously can't go back and get any more/better pics of the install process itself.

So here's the majority of my tools:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/tools.jpg


A basic socket/wrench set. I also have a small tool bag with other typical stuff: hammer, screw drivers of various sizes, torx driver bits, various pliers, side cutters, utility knives, adjustable crescent wrench, box/open wrenches in more sizes than included in the pictured tool kit, etc. I also have other typical handy-man tools like a drill and a dremel.

My work area is not very glamorous:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/work_area.jpg


My driveway. With a jack and jack stands to get a little more room under the jeep. And an old counter top on saw horses for a temporary work bench.

A roll of disposable shop towels was very useful. I always had a clean one sticking out of my pocket ready to be used:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/shop_towels.jpg

[UselessPickles]

Now let's jump into the install itself.

As you can see in my previous post, I just opened my hood all the way, and placed a towel between the hood and the windshield frame. Very convenient!

First step: disconnect the negative side of the battery. That should really be the first step before doing anything non-trivial on a vehicle, but I forgot about this until later when I made sparks fly while wrenching near the starter motor!

Remove the plastic engine cover. If you need directions/photos for this, then please don't attempt a turbo install :)

The first casualty of the install is the air filter box and intake tract:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/air_intake_removed.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/air_intake_removed_engine_bay.jpg


It's pretty straight-forward. Remove two bolts, pull off any hoses and sensor connectors that are attached to it, loosen the clamp on the throttle body,open the latches for the air filter box, then everything but the lower part of the air box comes out. The lower part of the air box is easiest to remove by itself as a second step: it just pops out.

The IAT (intake air temp) sensor needs to be carefully removed from the intake tract and safely set aside for later use. Be careful with it: the part of the sensor sticking into the intake seems pretty flimsy.


Next up is to remove the air dam under the front bumper. I don't seem to have any pics of this happening, but I struggled a bit with these stupid plastic fasteners:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/dam_fasteners.jpg


Simply trying to unscrew them did nothing useful. For most of them, I was able to get a flat blade screwdriver on the back side of the dam, inside the fastener, and apply pressure on the tip of the screw part. This helped the screw "bite" and actually back out as I unscrewed with a phillips screwdriver. Two of them were difficult to reach, so I ended up using brute force with a drill, flat blade screw driver and a hammer to destroy them. I still don't know the best technique to getting these out. This step took way longer than I expected.


With the air dam out of the way, it's time to drain coolant out of the radiator. Open the radiator cap to allow air in while it drains. You drain it from this plastic petcock on the bottom passenger side:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/coolant_petcock.jpg


That petcock has a nipple on the bottom of it. I conveniently had a plastic tube that would fit on that nipple, which came from this bottle pump (that I bought for pumping transmission fluid into the trans):

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/bottle_pump.jpg


That nipple with the tube on it gave me confidence that I would have a mess-free coolant draining experience. I was wrong. When you twist that petcock open, more fluid comes out past the valve handle than actually flows through the nipple. I wrapped a shop towel around it to help direct the flow:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/coolant_draining_rag.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/coolant_draining.jpg


As you can see, I had much coolant go everywhere except for where I expected it to go. This is a common theme. Expect coolant to come out in unexpected ways from unexpected places at various times, and be prepared to throw a bucket under the pouring coolant, and also have a hose ready to rinse things off.

The coolant drains very slowly, and less came out than I expected. I had two of those buckets (bought from the dollar store) ready to capture up to the full 10 quarts of coolant. I barely needed one bucket:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/coolant_bucket.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/coolant_bucket_covered.jpg


I covered the bucket with aluminum foil to avoid unnecessary contamination and set it aside (pour it back in later). This step was messier than expected and took longer than expected due to scrambling to clean up the messes.

[UselessPickles]

With the coolant partially drained, it's time to really start digging into this.


These aluminum pipes carry coolant to/from the heater core (for blowing toasty warm air into the cabin):

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/heater_pipes.jpg


Some aspects of this pipe assembly and the hoses attached to it in front of the engine are in the way of turbo stuff, so out it comes. It will be replaced by hoses later:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/heater_pipe_clamps.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/heater_pipes_removed.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/heater_pipes_removed_engine_bay.jpg


Moving the hose clamps out of the way is the easy part. Disconnecting the hoses is the fun part. They were really stuck for me. I ended up very carefully working a flat blade screwdriver under the hose, all around, to break the hoses free from the aluminum. Patience is useful here. Notice that one of the hoses comes off with the pipes. Don't wast your time separating that hose from the pipe assembly.

Also, there will still be some coolant in these pipes/hoses. Have something ready to catch it when it pours out, and you might as well bend hoses around to pour as much out as possible now rather than let it surprise you later.


This aluminum pipe under the alternator was connected to those coolant pipes with a hose.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/adjust_heater_hose_pipe.jpg


It needs to point more upward that it originally was. The instructions say to put a box wrench around the pipe, then gently rotate it upward. I didn't have a wrench large enough, but a 3/8" socket extention fit INSIDE the pipe nicely and did the same job.

This next picture shows 3 things:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/radiator_hose.jpg

1) My screwdriver is pointing out a hose that was still VERY full of coolant. Be prepared!
3) The small pipe that I just rotated upwards, but in its original more downward orientation (straight up from where my screwdriver is pointing).
3) The yellow line is crossing through one of the radiator hoses. That hose is also in the way of turbo stuff, so it must be trimmed, about where the yellow line is.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/radiator_hose_trimmed.jpg


Much more room! An anti-abrasion sheath on that hose also needs to be repositioned (it's quite obvious where it needs to be). The instructions include a helpful tip to use the hose clamp as a cutting guide for a nice straight cut, using a long blade. I used a utility knife like this, where the blade can be extended out quite long:

839


And I need to sleep now. To be continued...

[UselessPickles]

lets get a 0-60!

It will be a while before I get results for 0-60. I really need some practice launching a manual. I just can't bring myself to practice launching at traffic lights. I just don't want to be "that guy".

[JeepLab]

It will be a while before I get results for 0-60. I really need some practice launching a manual. I just can't bring myself to practice launching at traffic lights. I just don't want to be "that guy".

Im totally "That Guy", People think I have lost my mind.

GREAT WORK Pickles!

Keep It coming!

[UselessPickles]

Time to tear apart the intake manifold!

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/removing_upper_intake.jpg

I don't have any great detailed pics for this. Just disconnect everything that is connected to the upper intake manifold:
* A couple nuts mounting it to metal brackets (one bracket on each side).
* Bolts mounting it downward.
* Sensor connectors near the throttle body.
* Hoses/tubes connected near the throttle body.
* Several anchored cable ties that secure wiring to the upper intake manifold. You have to pry the barbed "christmas tree" fastener out of the upper intake.
* Probably a few things I forgot about already.

Once you think everything is disconnected, try removing it and discover that you missed a difficult to see/reach cable tie anchor way in the back! Or maybe that was on the lower intake manifold... I can't remember.

Removing it is a job where a second pair of hands is very useful. There are metal brackets in the way that just need to be flexed away a bit while the upper intake manifold is rotated and angled appropriately to make its exit.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/upper_intake_removed.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/upper_intake_removed_engine_bay.jpg


There's the lower intake manifold. Time for it to come out.

First thing I would do if I did it again is remove those 6 gray o-rings! You don't want fuel to get on them, or else they could deform and become unusable. Gently pry them out with a flat blade screwdriver (there's a small access spot in the o-ring seat wall to get the blade in there). Put them aside in a safe spot.

Again, disconnect everything:
* Bolts holding it down.
* Cable tie anchors.
* Fuel injector wiring connectors.
* Fuel line.

Disconnecting the fuel line is fun. Hopefully the engine hasn't been running in quite a while now so that there's been a chance for the fuel rail to depressurize. Instructions also say to open the gas cap to vent any pressure. Be ready for fuel to come out, potentially forcefully. Wrapping a rag around the area just before you pull the fuel line off can block any forceful spray from going too far. Eye protection would be a good idea just in case.

Unfortunately, I can't really give any good tips on how to actually disconnect the fuel line. It has two plastic clips that hold it on, and I managed to break both of them. So be more careful than me. I had to run to the dealer to get a new fuel line (just to get the clips out of it), which was out of stock in the entire state. I was able to special order from an out-of-state warehouse and pay an extra $12 to have it over-nighted.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/new_fuel_line.jpg


On the new fuel hose, you can see that the blue clip is sticking out. That's the "safety" clip. The white clip inside the connector is the main clip. You can easily press the fuel line onto the fuel rail in this configuration, then you pop the blue safety clip in to really secure it. Hopefully someone else can provide tips on properly REMOVING the fuel line. I know it at least involves gently prying the blue safety clip back out of the connector, probably from the upper/middle part... NOT by trying to spread its "legs"! I'm not sure if the line can be pulled off with the white clip in place or not.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/new_fuel_line_clips.jpg


New clips very carefully extracted from the new fuel line. Re-installing the fuel line with new clips later was easy!

Here's the old broken clips:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/broken_fuel_line_clips.jpg


Once everything is disconnected and you've cleaned up any spilled fuel, it lifts right out. Keep the opening of the fuel rail pointed upward as you lift it out to avoid spilling more fuel. There's another set of o-rings on the bottom that should be removed right away to avoid fuel contact.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/lower_intake_removed.jpg


You can try pre-emptively pouring fuel out of the fuel rail, but it drains VERY slowly. Maybe if you could prop it up somewhere and just let it drip out for a while. I gave up on trying to drain it and just planned on making a mess when I removed the fuel rail later.

Once the lower intake manifold is out, it's a good idea to cover the intake ports with something like masking tape to prevent crap from falling in as you continue working on things:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/lower_intake_removed_engine_bay.jpg


The official instructions have you set the lower intake manifold aside and move onto other things, but I went a bit out of order and finished the job with the intake manifold first (doesn't really matter which order it's done in). The stock fuel injectors need to be replaced with the supplied high-flow fuel injectors.

The fuel rail is mounted to the lower intake manifold by a couple torx screws. Sorry, I forgot to take note of what size torx. I just have a set of torx driver bits. Remove the screws, then gently work the fuel rail off, pulling up on alternating ends to slowly work it out. Some of the fuel injectors will come out with the fuel rail, others will stay stuck in the lower intake. Assume that you'll spill some more fuel too.

Gently pull all the fuel injectors out of whatever they are stuck in. Some of the injector o-rings might even stay behind and need to be pried out gently with a small flat-blade screwdriver.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/fuel_rail_removed.jpg


Now it's a good idea to thoroughly clean the lower intake manifold. The important parts to clean are:
* Injector o-ring seats.
* Intake port o-ring seats (on both top and bottom).
* Intake paths themselves.

Also clean the injector o-ring seats in the fuel rail. And while you're in a cleaning mood, clean all those intake manifold o-rings that you removed earlier. Don't re-install them yet, though. Just keep them somewhere safe.

Now that everything is so fresh and so clean, clean (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JfEJq56IwI)... time to install the new fuel injectors.

But first, you need to lube the o-rings on the new injectors. Just a light coat of engine oil:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/lubed_fuel_injector.jpg


Gently press all the injectors into the fuel rail in the same orientation that the old injectors were. Slots in the fuel rail should help prevent you from putting them in completely wrong. Then gently press the fuel rail with the fuel injectors into the lower intake manifold and re-install the torx screws. I didn't take a picture of the lower intake manifold re-assembled with the new injectors. It looks just like when I removed it from the engine, but cleaner.

Now set the lower intake manifold (and the upper manifold, while you're at it) aside in a safe clean spot. There's more work to be done before you re-install them!


Click here if you want to skip to the next post that continues with installation: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2092&viewfull=1#post2092

[Snarf77]

Pickles - great write-up so far. I'm loving it. For someone who self proclaims that they aren't that mechanically inclined, you seem pretty mechanically inclined. I also appreciate your pointing out things that broke to warn others of the potential pitfalls. Hopefully your and Jeeplab's eventual install can help towards a Prodigy instruction manual version 2.0 with improvements.

Might I recommend a very cheap item that I think would help fill out your garage and tool set? Its an automotive drip tray - cheap really ($10-$20) and can store behind/under anything. Great to work over when you're dealing with drippy things and cleans up easily after. Also helps contain small parts that may fall.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2940/14493252441_b092dd1172_c.jpg

[UselessPickles]

For someone who self proclaims that they aren't that mechanically inclined, you seem pretty mechanically inclined.

I guess I'd say I'm mechanically paranoid :)
I've learned a lot through trial and error. I know enough to be dangerous, and I'm aware of that.

Thanks for the drip tray suggestion. I'll add that to my list of random useful things that I'd like to get.

[Timmy]

For a man that claims he didn't take that many pictures to create an install log, you sure did a great job taking pictures for your write up! Nice job! Hope the turbo provides you with hours and hours of smiles to make up for all the hard work. Now get that mo-fo lifted and slap some big tires on it!!! (and of course, the new track bar relocation bracket, the upgraded flipped drag link, new steering strut, etc. etc. to fix all the problems that a lift creates, grin.) And of course... GET THOSE DOORS OFF! Toooooo many Jeepers drivin' around town with their doors on, sad, very sad... ;-)

P.S. If you wanna drive from MI to WA, I'll sell you my 35" tires, cause I'm itchen to upgrade to 37" or 38"!!!

[UselessPickles]

For a man that claims he didn't take that many pictures to create an install log, you sure did a great job taking pictures for your write up! Nice job!

Thanks. While reviewing all my pictures, there's been so many little details that could have been captured better, or that I completely missed. I guess I just have high standards. If the end result is that I set your expectations low, then over-delivered, then that works out nicely :)


(and of course, the new track bar relocation bracket, the upgraded flipped drag link, new steering strut, etc. etc. to fix all the problems that a lift creates, grin.)

And that's part of why I'll stick with my 2" lift and only go up to 33" tires :)


And of course... GET THOSE DOORS OFF! Toooooo many Jeepers drivin' around town with their doors on, sad, very sad... ;-)

Too much rain lately :(

Haven't had the top/doors off since before the turbo install.

[UselessPickles]

UPDATE!!! - I have since learned that I had too much boost with stage 1. I should have only had about 6.8 psi boost. When upgrading to stage 2, I found an exhaust leak at my wastegate, as well as a leak in the boost-sensing line to the wastegate. I'm pretty sure that one or both of these issues caused my excess boost.

Taking a break from the install writeup for some geeky data log analysis!

Here's the boost curve from a full throttle pull in 2nd gear:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/analysis/boost_curve_2nd_gear.png

Boost is not directly data logged, but intake manifold pressure is logged in psi, and barometric pressure is logged in inches of mercury. I converted barometric pressure to psi (came out to 14.4 psi) and subtracted it from manifold pressure to get boost values.

Based on the peak torque being at 4500 rpm in Prodigy's dyno results, I expected full boost at 4500 rpm. I'm thinking that maybe 2nd gear acceleration is just too fast, so the turbo doesn't get to fully spool at 4500 rpm. I'll have to try again with 3rd gear to test this hypothesis :)

Also note that I reached full throttle around 1700 rpms (whatever the first point on this chart is). I need to try again from a lower RPM to see if there's any amount of boost below 1700 rpm.

Once I'm satisfied that I have good boost curve data, then I'll also data log what happens when you stomp on the throttle around 4500 rpm to see how much lag there is in building full boost when going from cruising to full throttle.

[JeepLab]

Pickles, this is the best part of everything you do.

I LOVE the detail.

I wish prodigy would get there butts to NJ so we can put ours in. I've had this turbo in my living room for weeks!

I promised to wait for them to fly up for the install.

[UselessPickles]

Prodigy is finalizing some improvements. It should be worth the wait :)

[Snarf77]

Prodigy is finalizing some improvements. It should be worth the wait :)

The wait has been tremendous..but we're holding on! Really Pickles..the write ups are great. Keep 'em coming. Sorry you haven't had the top off much. I drove two hours on the highway to and from Rausch Creek on saturday and I feel half beaten to death by the wind and a bit deaf in the right ear afterwards. Something to look forward to!

[Timmy]

I drove two hours on the highway to and from Rausch Creek on saturday and I feel half beaten to death by the wind and a bit deaf in the right ear afterwards. Something to look forward to!

Right ear? Hmmm, that doesn't make sense. You must still have your doors on or else it would be your left ear with more hearing loss :p

I went rock climbing with the kids last weekend and by the time we got home, we had the radio cranked at 28 on the highway just to hear it. Our ears were so shot that anything less and it just faded away into the wind noise.

[Snarf77]

Right ear? Hmmm, that doesn't make sense. You must still have your doors on or else it would be your left ear with more hearing loss :p

I went rock climbing with the kids last weekend and by the time we got home, we had the radio cranked at 28 on the highway just to hear it. Our ears were so shot that anything less and it just faded away into the wind noise.

Don't want to threadjack pickles, but yup, right ear ringing. No top. open tube doors (no spidershade). Either way - next time earplugs are in order.

[Yoinkers]

We have a date on the JL install yet?

[UselessPickles]

Ok... back to the install.

Next up is to install the oil feed line for the turbo. You'll be working in this area:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pressure_sensor_location.jpg

That dark abyss is only that dark because it was a bright sunny day with harsh shadows. I believe that's the oil cooler just below the yellow circle. What you care about is the oil pressure sensor:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pressure_sensor.jpg

I think the smaller sensor in the foreground is the oil temperature sensor, but I'm not sure. It's the big sensor underneath it that needs to come out. This is where I lost several hours of time due to not having the right tool. It's tight in that space, and I didn't have a wrench large enough. I have an adjustable crescent wrench that just barely opens wide enough to fit on it, but the wrench is too chunky to get in there and get a good grip. I ran around to a couple stores looking for a wrench that would fit. The biggest wrench I found was 1-1/16", and it was a bit too small. I'm, thinking it might need a 1-1/8" wrench.


After failing to find a wrench, I re-visited the adjustable crescent wrench. I determined that the coolant hose underneath the sensors was blocking my access to get it firmly around the sensor nut. With some patience working in that tight space with needle nose pliers, I got the hose clamp off, then was able to get the hose off and out of the way. Of course, coolant spilled out into the valley of the engine, so I had to try to soak it up with paper towels, then dilute it with water and soak it up again. With the hose out of the way, I was just barely able to get the adjustable wrench onto the sensor and had just enough room to loosen it 1/6th of a rotation at a time. Note that while the smaller sensor seems to be in the way, you CAN attack the oil pressure sensor at an angle and work around the smaller sensor.

Once the oil pressure sensor is out, you basically install a T-fitting in its place, install the oil pressure sensor onto the end of the T-fitting, and compression fitting to the top of the T, then attach the oil feed line to the compression fitting:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_feed_line_installed.jpg

Teflon tape (like PTFE plumber's thread tape) is used on all threaded connections here, except for the oil line itself, because that's a compression fitting. Search online for how to properly use thread tape (need to wrap it in the correct direction, about 4 times around).

Before you snug up the oil line connection, make sure you have it routed nicely between all the nearby wire harnesses, hoses, etc. I'll post photos later of the completed install, trying to show how I ended up generally routing everything. I'm a bit OCD about routing things nicely, so I actually ended up re-routing some things a few times until I was happy with it.

Such a simple and innocent looking step of the install, and it took me 3+ hours to complete between trying different tools I had, running to stores, cleaning yet another coolant spill, and all the tedium of working in that small space. I felt unstoppable once this step was over.

[UselessPickles]

See these plastic pipes with rubber connectors (the top of the picture highlights approximately where the pipes run behind everything)?

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/ventilation_pipes.jpg


You can actually pull those out and get them out of the way earlier than instructed, whenever is convenient. They'll be easiest to remove once the upper and lower intake manifold are removed. Those are part of the crankcase ventilation system.

One pipe runs from the passenger side valve cover to the intake manifold. When idling or cruising, the intake manifold creates vacuum through the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) valve and sucks nasty air out of the crankcase (blow-by unburnt fuel, water vapor, etc). Slight vacuum in the crankcase keeps oil seals happy, and sucking out nasty junk keeps oil more pure, avoiding corrosion, sludge, etc. I will refer to this as "the PCV pipe".

The other pipe runs from the driver side valve cover to the air box. This is just a breather; no significant vacuum is applied to this pipe by the intake system, but it runs to the air box in stock configuration to be recirculated into the intake to reduce emissions. I will refer to this as "the breather pipe".

The turbo kit replaces these pipes. The breather pipe is simply replaced by a long hose that runs down behind the engine, along the top of the transmission, with the end of the hose zip-tied in place to vent to atmosphere under the vehicle. The EPA won't like this, but Prodigy explicitly chose to go this route rather than maintain the recirculating behavior. Hot air with some oil vapor, unburnt fuel, water vapor, etc., flows out of this hose when running boost, because there is significantly more blow-by past the pistons with boost, and that extra pressure in the crankcase needs to escape somewhere. That hot contaminated air interferes with tuning for power. For example, oil vapor reduces the effective octane rating of the fuel, making it more prone to pinging/detonation. Rather than tune more conservatively (less power) and/or require higher octane fuel (already requires 91 minimum), Prodigy has opted to avoid the problem altogether and slap the "for off-road use only, wink, wink" label on the turbo kit.

It's hard to get a good picture of this breather hose, but here's the end of it after installation:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/end_of_vent_hose.jpg


The PCV pipe is replaced by a hose with a check valve about at its mid point. The check valve prevents the crankcase from seeing positive boost pressure from the intake manifold.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_hose.jpg


However, I made the observation that the check valve has the hose fittings threaded into it:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_check_valve.jpg


And the diameter of the original plastic PCV pipe is a very close match to fit into the female threads of the check valve. So I decided to put a little extra effort into making my install just a bit cleaner:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_cut.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_threaded.jpg


Those are 3/8" pipe threads to match the threads in the check valve. I was able to borrow a rental thread cutting die at a local hardware store for $5 to get the job done at the counter in-store without paying any rental deposits, etc. If I had taken it home to use it, there would have been a $50 deposit, and the rental fee was $8. Just make sure you thoroughly clean any plastic shavings/dust from the cutting and threading. Don't want to suck that into your engine. Male pipe threads are cut with a taper, so it's a combination threaded/compression fitting. Because of this, and especially because the pipe is plastic, the pipe and check valve can be threaded tightly together and form an air-tight seal without any kind of thread sealant.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_complete.jpg


I like to keep as many things as possible appearing OEM, or at least OEM-like, and not obviously modded. You'll have to wait to see the modded PCV pipe installed, because there's plenty of other things that need to happen with the turbo install first :)


NOTE: The ventilation hoses/pipes are easily accessible after the install is complete, so you can start by following Prodigy's instructions, then customize it as I did at a later time if you decide to do so.


UPDATE: This modded PCV pipe needs a redesign due to annoying noise: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2112&viewfull=1#post2112

UPDATE: New revision successfully got rid of annoying noise: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2116&viewfull=1#post2116

UPDATE: Crankcase ventilation solutions are still being tested by Prodigy, so what I have described here is not final.

[UselessPickles]

Oops, I went out of order a bit. The following stuff comes in the instructions before messing with the crankcase ventilation stuff.

Here's two short hoses left over from that aluminum coolant pipe assembly that was removed. These connect to the heater core for blowing hot air in your face on a cold morning:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/short_heater_hoses.jpg


These get trashed. Rather than fighting to remove them normally, the instructions give you the easy way out: carefully cut a slit on the ends of the hoses with a utility knife, then peal the hoses off:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/short_heater_hoses_removed.jpg

After this, the instructions have you install the oil feed line at the oil pressure sensor (which I already covered), then the instructions have you install the new fuel injectors in the lower intake manifold (which I also already covered).

Next, re-install the lower intake manifold. I don't have a specific picture for this. It looks the same re-installed as it did before it was removed.

Then the crankcase ventilation stuff (which I already covered).

[UselessPickles]

Next up: starting to hook up the new hoses that replace the aluminum coolant pipe assembly for the heater core.

There's a couple steps crammed into one picture here:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/heater_hose1.jpg


The obvious one is the hose I'm pointing at, which connects to the driver-side heater core fitting.
Less obvious is that a short hose and T-fitting are connected to the passenger-side heater core fitting. One of the original coolant hoses is connected to the bottom of the T.

And a long hose is connected down here in the front of the engine where one of the aluminum pipes used to connect:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/heater_hose2.jpg


The other end of the hose will eventually connect to that T fitting at the heater core, but it is just set aside out of the way for now, because it will have to be carefully routed around turbo components before being connected. Hose clamps are used at all connections involving these coolant/heater hoses. you can also see a lonely end of an oil feed line in that picture, just waiting for a turbo to connect to.

[UselessPickles]

Time to make room for the turbo's air filter:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/trimming_air_box_support.jpg


The air box support is in the way, so it needs to be trimmed. I used a Dremel with a routing bit. Be careful not to cut through other nearby things, like a wiring harness and the fender liner. I actually unfastened the front half of the fender liner and folded it out of the way:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/fender_liner_folded.jpg


The instructions don't tell you to fold the fender liner out of the way until much later when it's time to install the air filter (yes, the air filter must be installed through the wheel well). I found that it was very helpful to fold it out of the way now, and leave it folded out of the way for better access/visibility in the area where the turbo will go.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/air_box_support_trimmed.jpg


After trimming the air box support, I cleaned up the cut edge with a sanding drum bit in the Dremel.

[UselessPickles]

Check out my newly blacked-out pipe and clamps:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10351323_10204304210355416_1839022711129173260_n.j pg


No expensive ceramic or powder coatings. Just a $4 spray can of high-temp matte black paint for BBQ grills :)

Also a water-repellent air filter wrap to protect the air filter from splashes of water/mud.

[JeepLab]

So much info!

Pickles... YOU ROCK.

Now. Im about to get the handcuffs off. Prodigy has bought the plane tickets, and we are expecting them up here on friday. The 11th.

[UselessPickles]

Can't wait to start hearing your feedback and comparisons to the superchargers :)

[UselessPickles]

Time to drill a hole in the oil pan!

Drain the oil. You might as well change the oil filter now too.

Then remove all the oil pan bolts. On two corners, there are nuts instead of bolts. Loosen those nuts to the ends of the studs, but don't remove them yet. These will hold the oil pan from suddenly falling once you get it pried loose.

There's an exhaust hanger that we found to be in the way of prying the oil pan off. It needs to come off later anyway, so we just removed it at this point:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/removing_exhaust_hanger.jpg


All the oil pan bolts are removed in that picture, and you can see one of the nuts at the left corner. Next, just very carefully pry the oil pan off, trying not to bend it. It's stuck in place with gasket material. We used a flat blade screw driver and a hammer, tapping it between the pan and the engine, small amounts at a time, working around the whole oil pan.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/removing_oil_pan.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pan_removed.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pickup_and_windage_tray.jpg


Have something under the jeep to catch the oil that will be dripping out of the engine while the oil pan is off.

I went slightly out of order with oil pan cleaning steps, because I'd rather do one thorough cleaning at the very end after doing all things that can make a mess. I wiped out excess oil from the pan to avoid creating more mess, but didn't try to thoroughly clean it right away. All that nasty gasket material needs to come off both the engine and the oil pan. I used a razor blade scraper and some patience:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/scraping_oil_pan.jpg


Then use one of the washers from the oil return fitting to plan where you'll drill a hole in the oil pan. It goes on the front, about in the middle (between two bolt holes), and as high up as you can go while keeping the washer on a completely flat surface.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/marking_oil_pan_hole_location.jpg


I used a screw or nail just to mark the center of the hole, then used a very small drill bit to drill a pilot hole before attacking the oil pan with the 7/8" hole saw bit.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pan_drilled.jpg


Then the rough edges of the hole need to be cleaned up and smoothed. I used a grinding bit in my Dremel. Now that you're done creating sealant shavings and metal shavings, it's time for a thorough cleaning. Running water, a rag and dish soap worked well for me. Dry it thoroughly, then time to install the oil fitting.


http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_return_fitting_parts_and_sealant.jpg


Sealant (oil resistant silicone gasket maker) on both sides of the hole:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_return_fitting_sealant_inside.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_return_fitting_sealant_outside.jpg


Instructions on the tube of sealant say to let the sealant partially cure for a short time (I think 20 minutes) before assembly.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_return_fitting_installed_inside.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_return_fitting_installed_outside.jpg


After snugging up the fitting, wipe the excess sealant away on both sides. Then apply sealant to the oil pan.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pan_ready_to_install.jpg


Let it partially cure again before installing the oil pan.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/oil_pan_reinstalled.jpg


Don't refill the oil yet :)

[UselessPickles]

Now to remove the stock exhaust components.

First, the catalytic converter pipes come off:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/passenger_cat_removed.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/driver_cat_removed.jpg


I didn't get any pictures of the removal process. Those are mounted to each head of the engine.

Disconnect the O2 sensor wiring first.

The bolts at the lower end of those pipes (connecting them to the Y-pipe) were a mixed bag. I think 3 of them came out no problem, but we gave up on one and used a sawzall. Those bolts aren't reused with the turbo kit, so don't feel bad about using destructive removal procedures.

IIRC, 3 of the bolts on each head were accessible through the wheel well by just sticking your hand under the fender liner. Some of them accessible with a 1/4" socket wrench (maybe with a small extension), and some with a simple wrench. At least one lower bolt on each side was only accessible (as far as we could figure out) from underneath the jeep with a simple wrench and some contortion. It's VERY cramped in there, but it is possible. Choose the friend with the smallest hands to do this part.

Only the top two bolts on each side come completely out. The bottom two just need to be loosened.

With the bolts removed and loosened, the fun doesn't end. There's almost not enough room to get those pipes out. It just took some experimentation of twisting and wiggling the pipe into different orientations, and finally forcing one of them just a little bit when an O2 sensor was getting barely hung up somewhere. I just confirmed that none of the wires were about to get pinched before giving it the final nudge to break it free.

Keep the O2 sensors where they are for not. You'll want to transfer them over to their respective locations on the new exhaust system later (after all the new pipes are installed).

And finally, the y-pipe needs to come out. The instructions make it sound like it will be very difficult, but it was actually the easiest part of the exhaust removal for us. This may have been due to the fact that we had earlier thoroughly soaked the pipe connection with PB Blaster to help break up corrosion.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/removing_y_pipe.jpg


The trickiest part for us was the stupid exhaust clamp:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/exhaust_clamp.jpg


WHY is the nut ON TOP? As you can see, we ended up popping the pipe out of the exhaust hanger so we could get a deep-well socket onto the nut. Normal human strength was not enough to get that nut to budge, though. Not even after multiple PB Blaster soakings. We ended up sliding the handle of a jack (essentially a long pipe) over the handle of the ratchet for more leverage, and the nut didn't put up much fight against that.

With the clamp loosened, the y-pipe easily twisted out (again, probably thanks to all the PB Blaster that had soaked in for hours).

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/y_pipe_removed.jpg

[UselessPickles]

Going slightly out of order again...

Instructions say to do this AFTER installing some of the turbo exhaust pipes, but I liked doing this with less stuff in the area. The cooling fan shroud needs to be trimmed to make room for the turbo itself (especially for a turbo blanket), and also for the silicone connector leading into the throttle body.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/trimming_cooling_fan_shroud.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/cooling_fan_shroud_trimmed.jpg


I used the Dremel with a routing bit again, then cleaned things up with a sanding drum bit.

I actually had to go back and trim some more that what I have done in the picture after everything was installed. Just double check for sufficient clearance as you install stuff, and remember that the engine shakes around a bit. Especially pay attention to clearance for the lower forward portion of the turbo blanket when you install that. I discovered that part of the fan shroud was tearing a hole in my turbo blanket, and luckily had just barely enough room to get the Dremel in there for some more trimming with the turbo fully installed (turbo blanket removed, though).


EDIT: Oops... forgot to mention that the coolant overflow reservoir needs to be temporarily moved out of the way right around this time to give you more room to work. It just lifts right out. We even popped the hose off the reservoir so we could set it aside safely, rather than have it still sitting around somewhere in the engine bay, tethered to the radiator with a hose.

[UselessPickles]

Finally time to start installing the major turbo components!

Photographic coverage starts thinning out here, because it was becoming clear that we weren't going to finish as early as we hoped.

The "up pipe" or "turbo feed pipe" is first to go on:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/up_pipe_highlighted.jpg


But first you clamp the wastegate onto it. The clamp does not get tightened at this point, because you'll need to rotate things into proper orientation later. This pipe has a small bracket for mounting it to an existing unused threaded hole on the engine. The hole in my pipe's bracket would not line up with the hole in the engine. I had to grind the end of the bracket down a bit to get things to line up. The Dremel's grinding bit was barely capably of doing this job. It was slow progress:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/grinding_up_pipe_bracket.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/up_pipe_installed.jpg


Instructions say to install the up pipe from below the vehicle. That was not an option for us, and we had absolutely no problem lowering the pipe down from above.


Next up is the passenger head pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/passenger_head_pipe_highlighted.jpg


Mounting it to the head of the engine is a bit easier than removing the stock pipe. There's a little more room to work. Remember not to tighten these bolts yet. Leave EVERYTHING loose until the end!

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/installing_passenger_head_pipe.jpg


The crossover pipe comes next:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/crossover_pipe_highlighted.jpg


Mounts to the driver side head first:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/installing_crossover_pipe.jpg


Then connect the crossover pipe and passenger head pipe to the up pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/up_pipe_connections.jpg


Again, keep those connections loose so they can wiggle. But do spend some time planning how you will orient those flanges to avoid interfering with any suspension components, ground clearance, etc. Also consider whether you'll be able to reach both the nut and the head of the bolt to tighten it later. This is NOT the final orientation I ended up with.


Next is the extension pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/extension_pipe_highlighted.jpg


I don't have a picture of this getting installed, but it slips into the remainder of the stock exhaust system where the old y-pipe used to connect. You'll want the driver side O2 sensor bung to be just slightly above horizontal. It's a TIGHT fit. We had you use a dead blow hammer to get this pipe in. Maybe we should have tried cleaning out the stock pipe that it slides into for an easier install? Don't tighten the clamp yet.

And, finally, the down pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/down_pipe_highlighted.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/down_pipe_installed.jpg


This pipe has two brackets that slide behind two bolts under the alternator. You have to loosen those two bolts first. And connect it to the extension pipe (don't tighten!).

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/connecting_down_pipe_to_cat.jpg

[UselessPickles]

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_complete.jpg


Crap... need to revisit this. The check valve rapidly opens and closes at idle, which vibrates through the plastic pipe and through the intake manifold (because it's clipped into the manifold). It makes an annoying buzzing noise that can be heard from inside the jeep. I think I need to come up with something that uses a portion of the provided rubber hoses to isolate the vibration.

[Rexx19]

Crap... need to revisit this. The check valve rapidly opens and closes at idle, which vibrates through the plastic pipe and through the intake manifold (because it's clipped into the manifold). It makes an annoying buzzing noise that can be heard from inside the jeep. I think I need to come up with something that uses a portion of the provided rubber hoses to isolate the vibration.

Is that part of prodigy's plan? or did you alter something?

[UselessPickles]

Is that part of prodigy's plan? or did you alter something?

That is my own modification. Prodigy's current plan is to just completely replace the original plastic pipe with some hose:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_hose.jpg


This was all described back in this post: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install/page10&p=2093#post2093


I now have a revised modification. Instead of threading the check valve into the middle of the plastic pipe, I'm now replacing the end of the plastic pipe with the check valve and a small piece of rubber hose.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_1.jpg


At the bottom is the back end of the original PCV pipe. To the left is the original rubber elbow that connects the pipe to the valve cover (at the back of the engine). To the upper right is the end of the crankcase breather pipe/hose that used to connect to the air box (this part is completely unused now with the turbo kit, so it's ready to be sacrificed!).

The rest of these photos should speak for themselves:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_2.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_3.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_4.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_5.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/pcv_pipe_mod_6.jpg


BOOM!

Simple modification to retain nearly all of the original PCV pipe, to retain OEM appearance. The check valve is now isolated on both ends by rubber, so the vibration caused by it opening/closing rapidly is now absorbed. No more annoying noise.

NOTE: The S-shaped rubber hose from the breather pipe is larger diameter at one end than the other. use the smaller diameter end, and put the original small diameter end onto the remainder of the PCV pipe. The cut end is slightly larger diameter, so it is better suited for connecting to the check valve's barbed hose fitting (which is a bit larger than the PCV pipe).

Unfortunately, I can't show you the complete modded PCV pipe assembly, because I had already cut mine in half for the first failed mod. Mine is mended back together with a piece of rubber hose for now. I will stop by the dealer to order a new plastic pipe at some point so I can start fresh with the new mod.

[UselessPickles]

Now that I've solved my check valve problem, I can get back to documenting the install :)

Time to prep the turbo itself! I actually did this the night before the install, indoors. It's a nice easy thing to do ahead of time so you don't feel like you're just stuck waiting to get started the next day.

The body of the turbo (small part in the middle with the bearing) has a small oil inlet on one side, and a larger oil outlet on the opposite side. We need to install adapter plates and female compression fittings to each of these, so that the oil feed and drain lines can be connected.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_1.jpg


That's the oil feed side. There's a thin gasket that goes on first, then the thick adapter.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_2.jpg


Then add some teflon tape (PTFE plumber's thread tape) to the fitting and thread it into the adapter plate.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_3.jpg


Same thing for the drain side:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_4.jpg


http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_5.jpg


http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_6.jpg


http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_prep_7.jpg


Don't be surprised if the the turbine and compressor housings are not oriented correctly relative to each other, or relative to the turbo body. It's completely adjustable. You actually get quite a good view of the housing bolts in the photos above. Just loosen all the housing bolts slightly (about 1/4 turn should be enough; only loosen them enough so that you can rotate the housing), then rotate the housing relative to the body. The rectangle turbine housing inlet and the oil drain hole need to be pointing straight down. The compressor outlet and oil inlet need to be pointing straight up. Tighten the housing bolts in a star pattern when you're done.

Even if yours comes perfectly aligned already, you should double check that all the housing bolts are tight.

[UselessPickles]

And now the photo coverage REALLY thins out. Hunger, exhaustion and fading sunlight played a role in this.

Next up: install the TURBO!

First, attach the oil drain hose to the turbo, then lower it down unto the turbo feed pipe. There's a steel gasket that goes between the feed pipe and the turbine inlet. Four bolts and nuts secure the turbo in place.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/turbo_installed.jpg


There's some tight spaces in there to get the nuts started. Once all of the nuts are started, it's a two person job to snug them up. One person on top with an open-ended wrench, and another person below with a socket wrench and a LONG extension. We used three 6" extensions.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/all_of_the_extensions.jpg


DO NOT FULLY TIGHTEN!

See the common theme here? All of the exhaust hardware should still be loose, and the turbo mounting hardware should remain loose now.


Now that the turbo is in place, there's a couple things that can be routed to their final locations:
1) Oil feed line needs to be routed nicely and attached to the turbo.
2) That coolant hose that's been dangling off to the side can now get routed around the turbo, then up to the T-fitting back at the heater core.

I'll have to take pictures of final locations of things in my install and post them later for reference.


The air filter gets installed through the wheel well:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/air_filter_installed.jpg


Then everything with the turbo/exhaust gets connected/tightened in a certain order. Learn from my mistakes:

1) Re-attach the inner fender liner (that you partially removed to install the air filter). This is important because you need to make sure the air filter is not contacting the fender as you tighten things down. I didn't realize the importance of this step and instead left the fender liner out of the way for better access to stuff. My air filter now touches my fender liner and I'll have to spend the time some day to loosen EVERYTHING, then tighten it all again while applying pressure as necessary to guide things into a better position.

2) Attach turbo to down pipe with a big clamp. The turbo and down pipe need to be nearly perfectly mated to each other before the clamp will go on. We had a lot of trouble getting this to happen. Thinking back, there's a couple possibilities for out trouble:
a) The exhaust pipes had gotten tightened to the engine before I remembered that we were not supposed to tighten anything yet. It took a long time to get them all tightened due to tight spaces, so we decided to leave them tightened because they seemed to have no wiggle room for their final location anyway. We should have taken the time to loosen the bolts to get some wiggle room for getting OTHER components connected.
b) I MIGHT have already tightened the bolts below the alternator that mount the down pipe brackets. i really can't remember now. Don't do that.
c) Remember back when I said I had to grind the end of the bracket that mounts the turbo feed pipe to the engine? I only ground it just enough to get it to barely fit. I think I should have ground it down more to give some more wiggle room for the position of that pipe.

3) Tighten exhaust to the engine heads.

4) Tighten the turbo to the platform of the turbo feed pipe (paying attention to location of air filter to avoid contact with anything nearby).

5) Tighten down pipe to extension pipe.

6) Tighten stock exhaust clamp (which holds the extension pipe).

7) Tighten the remaining two exhaust connections that hold the crossover pipe and passenger head pipe to the turbo feed pipe.

Remember to double check the orientation of the flanges for the exhaust connections to avoid interference with suspension components, avoid reducing ground clearance, and to ensure that you can actually reach the bolts/nuts from both sides with tools to tighten them. We ended up using a socket extension and even a universal joint to reach some of them. Also, tighten all those ball joints TIGHT, or else you will have exhaust leaks.


And now attach the oil drain hose to the oil pan. Be sure to hold the base of the oil pan fitting with a wrench or similar to avoid twisting it in the oil pan.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/attaching_oil_drain_hose.jpg


I zip-tied the oil drain hose to that radiator hose up front to prevent it from swinging toward the exhaust pipe.

[UselessPickles]

Almost done...

But also almost no pictures for the rest of the install.

The wastegate gets connected to the down pipe with a clamp. This clamp will not go un unless the wastegate is almost perfectly aligned with the mounting flange on the downpipe. We had a LOT of trouble getting it to line up. This may have been a continuation of our punishment for the same mistakes that made it tough to attach the turbo to the down pipe. Once you think you have the clamp on, squeeze it closed with some pliers before trying to thread the screw into the clamp. The screw will not go through unless the clamp is nearly closed already, and it requires just a bit more force than my bare hands could provide. The clamp completely closed VERY easily with pliers.

Next, a plastic tube gets connected to a port on the wastegate, and the other end to a port on the turbo compressor outlet. This is the pressure sensing line that causes the wastegate to open and limit the speed of the turbo as pressure increases. Again, I'll try to post a collection of photos later that show the final routing/location of all these items that need to be "carefully routed". The general theme is to keep things away from exhaust pipes.

Next, time to pour coolant back into the radiator. There's an air bleed valve that you open (obvious from photos in the instructions) before pouring coolant in, then close the bleed valve as soon as coolant starts coming out of it. Before pouring my coolant back in, I strained it through an old T-shirt, since the coolant had run all over various dirty parts of the jeep before dripping into the bucket. There were some visible floaters. Why doesn't coolant ever drain out of vehicles nicely, straight into the container?

The upper intake manifold goes back on, attaching all the various hoses and electrical connectors that were disconnected when you removed it. Except for the MAP sensor. The OEM sensor gets replaced with a new MAP sensor (that can read higher pressures). The new sensor uses a different type of connector, so the kit includes an adapter.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/map_sensor_adapter.jpg


I routed the adapter behind a hose to keep it from dangling out from underneath the engine cover.

[UselessPickles]

So close...

Next, the turbo gets connected up to the throttle body with two silicone elbow connectors, a pipe, and some clamps. Remember that tiny fragile intake temperature sensor you removed from the stock intake? That needs to get installed into the silicone elbow that connects to the throttle body.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/iat_sensor_1.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/iat_sensor_2.jpg


The IAT sensor just presses into the hole, then gets secured/sealed with super glue. I had to punch my own hole (pounded a screwdriver through it, then used an xacto knife to kinda scrape/ream/drill it out large enough), but future kits are supposed to come pre-punched.

I had installed the IAT sensor earlier in the day, but it was quite late when I was actually installing the silicone and pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/installing_charge_pipe.jpg


Put the coolant overflow reservoir back in place.


Install the front air dam if you still have it and want to keep it. I left mine off for a few days and my jeep wandered noticeable at freeway speeds without it. I would actually recommend leaving it off until after some test driving and inspection anyway. It's easier to look around without the air dam there. Once I put it back on, freeway driving felt more stable.


Transfer the O2 sensors from the stock exhaust to the new turbo exhaust. The upstream sensors are still about in the same location, so they plug right in. The downstream sensors move way down underneath the jeep on the extension pipe. The kit comes with wire harness extensions that must be routed and zip-tied along the way. I'll try to include this in my future collection of photos showing the final routing and resting places of parts.


Fill up on oil. Synthetic oil is a must with the turbo. I used Mobil 1. Double check that your drain plug is tight first :)


Reconnect the battery.


That's the end of the physical labor!

[UselessPickles]

Before you excitedly start the engine, make sure you install the Prodigy tune with the included Diablosport InTune.

It's pretty painless, but time consuming (possibly an hour or more). This is something that you could do the night before the install so that you really are ready to turn the key after putting the oil in.

First you connect the InTune to an internet-connected computer via the included USB cable. Every time the InTune powers up, it takes several minutes to go through its boot process. The first time you connect to a given computer, it will also take a while for the computer to recognize it, etc. Eventually, an updater application may automatically launch (depending on your exact OS and settings), or you might have to manually launch it (follow Diablosport's instructions).

The updater app will automatically check for updates, download, and install them. You'll have to leave the InTune connected and wait several minutes for it to process the update and reboot.

Once the updater app says it's up-to-date, you can go connect to the OBD port in the Jeep. Several minutes to power up. Then you go through the menu options to install the Prodigy tune. Follow the on-screen instructions, and be ready to do a lot of waiting.

It might tell you that your vehicle requires an update before you can install the tune. If this happens, you just unplug the InTune and take it back to the computer. plug in, wait for it to boot, wait for the updater app to launch (or launch manually if necessary). It will download and install something, probably require you to wait while it reboots, then you can finally go back out to the jeep again, where it will install the update (maybe it waits till you try to install the tune again?), then finally the tune.

[UselessPickles]

Don't start the engine yet...


Now it's time to double check that everything is connected, fluids are filled, etc.

Then you turn the key on (but don't start), wait a few seconds for the fuel pump to pressurize, then turn the key off. Repeat 2 more times to build up fuel pressure, then go check under the hood for fuel leaks around the fuel-related stuff you messed with.

NOW start the engine! but only let it run for about 10 seconds, stop it, then check for fluid leaks. I also recommend having someone watching and listening to the exhaust joints for exhaust leaks. I had some VERY loud exhaust leaks on my first start. I could also see water sputtering out of the exhaust connections where it was leaking. I quickly learned that I simply needed to tighten those ball joints much more to seal them up.

Now you can start the engine and let it idle for a while, waiting for the cooling fans to turn on (indicating that coolant is up to temp) so that you can shut the engine off again, and top off the radiator. While it's warming up, keep checking for leaks, bad noises (exhaust leaks), etc. The new fuel injectors seem like they might be louder, or I was just paranoid listening for bad sounds. But if you hear ticking sounds, check to see if they are coming from the fuel rail before you worry about it. it will be louder on the passenger side, because there is foam covering the driver side.

Finally, go for a short, gentle test drive to confirm things are working. Check for leaks, etc. again. Don't forget to check the oil feed and drain lines for the turbo.

Once you are satisfied that everything is good, go enjoy it. there is no break-in procedure required for the turbo itself, but Prodigy recommends that you gently work up to full throttle to get used to it. They specifically say light/moderate throttle for the first 50 miles, but I say just go at your own responsible pace. If you have driven powerful vehicles before, then you might only need a couple miles of driving to become accustomed to the throttle behavior.


Keep an eye on your coolant overflow reservoir over the next couple warm up cycles. I had to top mine off twice.

[UselessPickles]

Since the previous few posts didn't have many pictures, here's what it currently looks like under my hood. Feel free to drool :)

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_side.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_angle.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_top.jpg

[UselessPickles]

I talked to Prodigy today. They are still testing some ideas for crankcase ventilation, so the stuff I have posted related to crankcase ventilation is likely not final.

Also, they put stage 2 on a dyno recently. Stage 2 is going to blow away the superchargers for sure (at least in the upper RPMs). Can't wait to see JeepLab's dyno chart comparison :)

[Snarf77]

Pickles - question for you as I read through your install process and drool over the pictures. Do you think that, after removal of the OEM airbox and install of the cone type filter, that there is room for a winch solenoid box on the firewall side and slightly above the K&N filter?

I've been struggling for months on exactly where to remote mount my winch's solenoid box and have yet to find a solution under the hood. It looks like you may have room in there. It could impede airflow but methinks not!?

[UselessPickles]

Do you know the dimensions of the solenoid box? If so, then I can measure.

Btw. The filter is not a K&N. It's a non branded dry filter. That's just a K&N water repellant pre filter wrap I added as a precaution to protect from water/mud splashing up from below. The bonus side effect is it makes the filter appear to be black and blend in more :)

[Snarf77]

I'll have to get some measurements. Its an ENGO unit from my E9000. Its pretty big.. 9 long, 6 deep, maybe 4 tall.

Started a thread on it, a ways back here:

http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?96-Engo-solenoid-box-relocation-not-an-easy-job-for-2012-owners

[UselessPickles]

There *might* be enough room if you can get creative with a mounting plate/bracket. The air filter is about 4 inches below the top of the, and the compressor outlet of the turbo is about 8 inches away from the side of the engine compartment. I forgot to measure from the fuse box forward to the power steering fluid bottle. There might be enough room there for the length of the box.

[UselessPickles]

I took the stock exhaust pipes and catalytic converters to a scrap yard today. I only got $40 for the cats, and they said the pipes were essentially worthless in that small amount. At least they'll get recycled.

I feel like I got ripped off a bit, but I also didn't want to use more gas driving around to other scrap yards to price-shop. You can't just call around to get values of this stuff. they have to inspect the cats in person. Which means you need to cut the pipes off the catalytic converter section before you take them in so that they can actually visually inspect the catalyst material. A sawzall and an angle grinder got the job done for me.

Speaking of using gas, the best part of the trip was that I traveled 25 miles with less than a gallon of fuel. I reset my dashboard mpg reading before I left my house. When I parked at the scrap yard, it was at 28.0 mpg! It was some unusually gentle driving though, because I had the pipes in the back and didn't want them sliding around.

[Snarf77]

I took the stock exhaust pipes and catalytic converters to a scrap yard today. I only got $40 for the cats, and they said the pipes were essentially worthless in that small amount. At least they'll get recycled.

I feel like I got ripped off a bit, but I also didn't want to use more gas driving around to other scrap yards to price-shop. You can't just call around to get values of this stuff. they have to inspect the cats in person. Which means you need to cut the pipes off the catalytic converter section before you take them in so that they can actually visually inspect the catalyst material. A sawzall and an angle grinder got the job done for me.

Speaking of using gas, the best part of the trip was that I traveled 25 miles with less than a gallon of fuel. I reset my dashboard mpg reading before I left my house. When I parked at the scrap yard, it was at 28.0 mpg! It was some unusually gentle driving though, because I had the pipes in the back and didn't want them sliding around.

I'm surprised you didn't get more for the catalytic converters. Beats me! I think I'll keep mine for a while based on your experience. I know you're not supposed to sell them but if a buddy of mine needs one for some reason, I'd rather have mine to give away vice the price of new.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same MPG increase. If anything I'm about the same so far on the highway. I'll have to do better in calculating the actual MPG but I'm on 37s and 4.88 gears. This would be ridiculously rocket fast if I had the stock rubicon tires or smaller. I just burped the coolant system and getting ready to go fill-er-up with some 93!

[Timmy]

I'm surprised you didn't get more for the catalytic converters. Beats me! I think I'll keep mine for a while based on your experience. I know you're not supposed to sell them but if a buddy of mine needs one for some reason, I'd rather have mine to give away vice the price of new.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the same MPG increase. If anything I'm about the same so far on the highway. I'll have to do better in calculating the actual MPG but I'm on 37s and 4.88 gears. This would be ridiculously rocket fast if I had the stock rubicon tires or smaller. I just burped the coolant system and getting ready to go fill-er-up with some 93!

I'm very curious to hear if you end up with any MPG gains. I'm still dumb-founded when people say they get MPG gains after adding a turbo. Let's see, put in a device that pumps in more air, so you can dump in more gas to make a bigger explosion in the cylinder... Result... More fuel efficiency... Umm, something seems wrong with this equation. My only explanation is that Prodigy actually did a better job on the computer program than Chrysler did. Ohh, I guess it would help if the Cat converter and other EPA stuff was removed ;-)

Either way, Pickle, that awesome that you're getting 28 MPG (or say 25 MPG if you weren't driving like a grandma.) Right now, with 35" tires, top off and no doors, I'm getting around 15mpg average in city driving. If I go out on the highway, I bump allllll the way up to 16mpg.

[Snarf77]

I'm very curious to hear if you end up with any MPG gains. I'm still dumb-founded when people say they get MPG gains after adding a turbo. Let's see, put in a device that pumps in more air, so you can dump in more gas to make a bigger explosion in the cylinder... Result... More fuel efficiency... Umm, something seems wrong with this equation. My only explanation is that Prodigy actually did a better job on the computer program than Chrysler did. Ohh, I guess it would help if the Cat converter and other EPA stuff was removed ;-)

Either way, Pickle, that awesome that you're getting 28 MPG (or say 25 MPG if you weren't driving like a grandma.) Right now, with 35" tires, top off and no doors, I'm getting around 15mpg average in city driving. If I go out on the highway, I bump allllll the way up to 16mpg.

I'm actually thinking I'm somewhere between 1 and 2 mpg better thus far. I'll have to finish the tank. Turbos are used throughout the world to make more efficient engines. Wasted energy converted into more air for an engine to combust. Doesn't surprise me a bit that there could be a fuel economy gain, especially on the highway. I'll have to stay off the pedal for a bit on a road trip tomorrow to see what happens.

[ljvsnyder]

So to sell this idea to my wife I need to tell her I am installing an "Ecoboost" kit.

[Snarf77]

So to sell this idea to my wife I need to tell her I am installing an "Ecoboost" kit.

I'm just over a 1.7 mpg increase over the previous tank at today's fill-up. 1.7 mpg isn't a huge boost until you look at it as a % increase, roughly 9% for me.

Let's hope the the wife doesn't do the math on how many miles it would take to break even on cost. :)

[JeepLab]

I'm just over a 1.7 mpg increase over the previous tank at today's fill-up. 1.7 mpg isn't a huge boost until you look at it as a % increase, roughly 9% for me.

Let's hope the the wife doesn't do the math on how many miles it would take to break even on cost. :)

Teach her to do a 37" KM2 Burn out, and all will be forgiven.

[ljvsnyder]

My little girls would go for the burn out, the wife not so much, but she is pretty bad at math.

[Timmy]

Teach her to do a 37" KM2 Burn out, and all will be forgiven.

If you find a women that is impressed by a 37" burn out, KEEP HER!!! They are very rare...

[UselessPickles]

I'm still dumb-founded when people say they get MPG gains after adding a turbo. Let's see, put in a device that pumps in more air, so you can dump in more gas to make a bigger explosion in the cylinder... Result... More fuel efficiency... Umm, something seems wrong with this equation.

You're only thinking of full-throttle when you actually make more power using the extra air and fuel. When driving "normally" and cruising steadily, you're not using more air+fuel with a turbo. You actually use less because now you have expanding hot exhaust energy spinning the turbo and helping push air into the intake (even if you're not making boost, the turbo is still helping some). Without the turbo, that exhaust energy is just dumped out the tail pipe and the engine has to work harder to suck air past the partially open throttle body, requiring more air+fuel to output the same net power to the wheels to maintain the same cruising speed.



Either way, Pickle, that awesome that you're getting 28 MPG (or say 25 MPG if you weren't driving like a grandma.)


I'm just over a 1.7 mpg increase over the previous tank at today's fill-up. 1.7 mpg isn't a huge boost until you look at it as a % increase, roughly 9% for me.

My completely unscientific observations based only on memory seem to indicate that I'm generally getting about 2 mpg better with the turbo for my usual daily driving to work. My dashboard average economy readout pre-turbo would always eventually settle into the 18-19 mpg range for me. With the turbo, now it seems to settle into the 20-21 mpg range after several days of just driving "normal" (with at least one full throttle blast through 1st and 2nd gear each day). This seems in agreement with Snarf's observations.

My 28 mpg trip was from abnormally gentle driving and not exceeding 70 mph on the freeway. It's nice to know that it's possible, but I'll probably not see such a high number again for a long time :)

I seem to be able to hit 25 mpg pretty easily when doing a lot of freeway and highway driving, as long as I stay around 70 mph or less. Bumping the speed up to 75 mph seems to drop fuel economy down to about 21 mpg.



Let's hope the the wife doesn't do the math on how many miles it would take to break even on cost. :)

The turbo will pay for itself much faster in fuel savings than big tires or a lift :) It's nice to have a fun mod that doesn't DECREASE fuel economy.

Remember to take into consideration the price difference between regular and premium fuel (turbo requires 91 octane). Here's the formula to calculate how many miles it will take to save a target $ amount:

[miles to save $] = [target $ to save] / ( ([regular fuel price] / [pre-turbo mpg]) - ([premium fuel price] / [post-turbo mpg]) )

If the result comes out negative, then it means you'll LOSE your target $ amount in that many miles!


And here's the formula to calculate how much $ you'll save after travelling a specific number of miles:

[$ saved] = [miles traveled] x ( ([regular fuel price] / [pre-turbo mpg]) - ([premium fuel price] / [post-turbo mpg]) )

If the result is negative, then of course that means you lost money.


Formula explanation: Dividing fuel price (in $/gal) by fuel economy (in mpg) gives you the cost to drive the vehicle in dollars per mile (henceforth, "DPM"). Multiply your DPM value by a number of miles to determine how much it costs to travel that many miles ($ = miles x DPM). Divide a dollar amount by your DPM value to figure out how many miles you can travel for that amount of money (miles = $ / DPM). The formulas above simply involve calculating a pre-mod DPM and post-mod DPM, then subtracting pre-mod-DPM from post-mod-DPM to get a "change in DPM caused by the mod" (henceforth, "delta-DPM"). Your delta-DPM then is used to calculate a change in cost to travel a specific number of miles (delta-$ = miles / delta-DPM), or a change in how many miles can be traveled by a specific dollar amount (delta-miles = $ / delta-DPM). The full formulas above are slightly rearranged and simplified to avoid some extra negatives and make more sense for the specific situations we're talking about. In pure form, savings would be be represented as a negative change.

[UselessPickles]

I discovered a stupid mistake I made while installing the turbo. I pushed the exhaust extension pipe too deep into the stock cat-back exhaust pipe. The whole stock cat-back system was pulled forward when I tightened the extension pipe to the down pipe, which caused this to happen:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/exhaust_crushed.jpg

The hump in the exhaust over the rear axle is out of alignment now, and the rear track bar crushed the exhaust a bit when my suspension bottomed out at some point (probably that day I spent off road soon after the install).

I wonder how much power I'm losing because of this exhaust constriction.

Anybody have ideas for the cheapest way to fix this? I've already posted in the "wanted" section of a few forums for stock exhaust take-offs.

[jeepsking]

I dont think its a defect . it came from the manufacturer like this. You can check with other JK if I am not mistaken.

[JeepLab]

I dont think its a defect . it came from the manufacturer like this. You can check with other JK if I am not mistaken.

x2 Jeepsking is dead on. My 12 also had the same exact dented pipe.

funny that they made such a big deal about the exhaust "loop". Super highly engineered exhaust.... then they bashed them all at the factory.

[Yoinkers]

mine bent the same way. Thought I did it wheeling until someone else said they had the same thing. Thanks Jeep.

[jeepsking]

They wanted a clearance to avoid contact, but since our Jeep let say 60% are lifted already, so there is no requirement for that bushed thing. To correct u need to customise it.

[UselessPickles]

Wow. You'd think that would just find a way to route things so they don't have to dent the exhaust for clearance. Makes me wonder if an after market cat-back without a dent would free up any power with the turbo.

[Snarf77]

Wow. You'd think that would just find a way to route things so they don't have to dent the exhaust for clearance. Makes me wonder if an after market cat-back without a dent would free up any power with the turbo.

Speaking of..what do you know about the tuned exhaust systems that are under testing for our Prodigy turbo systems? I'm holding off on an exhaust until I can see their offering. I'm super pleased with the turbo thus far and, if they do their exhaust the same way, I'll want it!

[UselessPickles]

Ball bearing turbo? Prodigy tuned exhaust? This is all news to me. Sounds like I need to look for an additional source of income...

[Snarf77]

Ball bearing turbo? Prodigy tuned exhaust? This is all news to me. Sounds like I need to look for an additional source of income...

Ball bearing is an option, or at least will be. Our current turbo is so over-matched to our power output I can't see needing one. The exhaust though..absolutely since I'm 100% stock from prodigy's pipes back. The exhaust was mentioned during the Jeeplab install in NJ. It is intended to work specifically with Prodigy's turbo, designed by a third party. Form factor similar to AFE's high-tuck design where the muffler is up and away from stock location to prevent it getting crushed.

[JeepLab]

Speaking of..what do you know about the tuned exhaust systems that are under testing for our Prodigy turbo systems? I'm holding off on an exhaust until I can see their offering. I'm super pleased with the turbo thus far and, if they do their exhaust the same way, I'll want it!

How fast is this guy?

Beat me to the prodigy exhaust. Well played sir.

[Snarf77]

How fast is this guy?

Beat me to the prodigy exhaust. Well played sir.

Sorry...I'm super excited about how my turbo is performing. I'm excited to get it on the dyno. Then I'm excited to get an exhaust.

Took some VW turbo guys out for a quick spin and they were really impressed. These folks routinely have 600+ Horsepower front drive cars..so their big-eyes were a good sign the Prodigy system is impressive.

[NOLAjeeper]

Any of you guys getting any check engine light(s) codes since the install of the Turbo? ive gotten several since the install.. i figured it was just the computer trying to get settled with the new major mod.. here are the list of codes that have popped up since my install. P0112, P0153, P0132, P2096, P0420. All codes are Air/fuel/Exhaust issues... I was able to clear all the codes and not show back up. All but code P0153.: P0153 - O2 Sensor 2/1 Slow Response. I clear the code and it stays off for the first 30 miles or so and then the check engine light comes on.. I check the code by doing the key turn 3x and this seems to never go away P0153. Any thoughts? 2012 JKU automatic stage 1 prodigy turbo kit. Also i took the vehicle to a dyno shop and i could not get the jeep to shift out of 1st gear while in 2 wheel drive. We disable the ABS disconnected them from the rear and still no luck. We were only able to use the manual shift while in 4 wheel drive. The dyno shop was able to dyno the jeep but the whole process was a disaster.. Due to the automatic transmission the jeep would downshift while in 4th gear and we could not get an accurate dyno, boost was leaking from the intake sensor, where you cut a hole to install the stock air sensor from the old intake right before the throttle body, also there was an exhaust leak on the driver side pipes. All in all what was measured was 228HP to the wheels in 4Hi. Was not a fun process.. I contacted Dan about the intake issue and he said that they have a revised hoses with pre drilled fittings that will fix the issue with boost leakage. Tomorrow ill be taking the jeep to a different shop that specializes in MOPAR aftermarket heavy mods. They also have a dyno and maybe they can run the jeep in 2 wheel drive and fix all the boost/exhaust leaks.

[UselessPickles]

No check engine lights for me.

If you have a boost leak at the IAT sensor, that means you also have a vacuum leak there when not on boost. Maybe that vacuum leak and the exhaust leak are causing your errors.

Where exactly is your exhaust leak? And how was it found? Any tips on checking for exhaust leaks? I'm still a bit paranoid that I might have a non-obvious leak somewhere.

Once you get the leaks fixed, maybe you should follow this procedure to clear the adaptive memory and put the computer into "fast learn mode": http://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-89.htm

One possibility is that it the computer has some calibrations stored in there that are now incorrect enough with the turbo kit to cause error codes. Details on adaptive memory and "fast learn mode" are hard to find, so it's unclear whether the computer would eventually "slow learn" new calibrations, or whether clearing the adaptive memory is the ONLY way to get the computer to re-calibrate.

[Snarf77]

Just to chime in, we don't have any check engine lights thus far. My kit included the hose with the pre-punched hole for the air sensor. It was tight to install but worked to my benefit once done.

We had to battle some exhaust leaks during the install process - but that is normal. Ended up completely disconnecting a couple joints to start over and get a better seal. Seemed to work well enough after and no leaks after several hundred miles of driving.

Pickles - My buddy has a smoke system for testing leaks which we'll use in a couple weeks. Short of that, I've seen people use homemade stethoscope-type devices to listen for them. Simply enough though..get a good light and look for any areas with black sooty dust near joints after shes cooled down. Too simple - maybe..but it can work.

[NOLAjeeper]

No check engine lights for me.

If you have a boost leak at the IAT sensor, that means you also have a vacuum leak there when not on boost. Maybe that vacuum leak and the exhaust leak are causing your errors.

Where exactly is your exhaust leak? And how was it found? Any tips on checking for exhaust leaks? I'm still a bit paranoid that I might have a non-obvious leak somewhere.

Once you get the leaks fixed, maybe you should follow this procedure to clear the adaptive memory and put the computer into "fast learn mode": http://www.quadratec.com/jeep_knowledgebase/article-89.htm

One possibility is that it the computer has some calibrations stored in there that are now incorrect enough with the turbo kit to cause error codes. Details on adaptive memory and "fast learn mode" are hard to find, so it's unclear whether the computer would eventually "slow learn" new calibrations, or whether clearing the adaptive memory is the ONLY way to get the computer to re-calibrate.

My exhaust leak was under the driver side, where the exhaust meets the cat back? Thats where the my installer found the leak. He found the black puff marks. I could hear what sounded like some air leaking.. i have an after market exhaust too, and before the turbo was installed the exhaust sounded nice and throaty.. its a Dynomax competition evo. And when the turbo was installed after driving it around i could hear some unusual sounds coming from the pipes that would sound like there is something not tightened well and air is leaking somewhere...its like a puttering sound at low speeds at the lower RPMS. Sure enough i took it back to my installer and he found a leak. I still think theres some leaks around the passenger side pipes, it just doesnt sound smooth and rumbly/throaty like it used to before the turbo. and at low speeds/rpms it should sound the same as it did stock before the turbo, and it doesnt.. So ill find out tomorrow when i take it to the shop. Im going to have them check thoroughly for boost leak and exhaust leak check all the sensors and just make her right like she's suppose to.. Also see if they can dial her in with automatic tune.. Ill keep you guys updated. Oh and another thing, pickles on the adaptive memory clear....I have the AEV procal, thats what i use to clear the codes.. will this method work better than the AEV procal as far as resetting the codes? Also i forgot to add.. I use the AEV PRocal ontop of the diablo intune. I use to calibrate my tires and gear ratio.. My Diablo intune does not have the Quick Adjust parameters that allows me to adjust tires and gear ratio. Dan and the guys have been trying to fix/update my Tuner... No luck so far so they told me to use the Procal until my Diablo tuner is working properly and they can get me quick adjust parameters download on to the tuner.. :( I think the Manuals benefit a lot more from the turbo as far as the tuning goes.. Hope this shop can help me tomorrow. Limited on performance shops here in New Orleans, even more with 4x4 shops. We shall see. Keep you guys updated.

[UselessPickles]

at low speeds/rpms it should sound the same as it did stock before the turbo, and it doesnt

Remember that the turbo kit significantly changed the exhaust, including getting rid of the equal-length pipes before the Y connector (stock exhaust has that funny loop on the driver-side pipe before the Y-pipe). I actually just talked to someone this weekend that works at Chrysler, and he told me about how the Wrangler is the only 3.6 Pentastar vehicle with that loop for equal-length pipes, and that it was done mostly for the purpose of sound. It makes sense, then, that the turbo kit with its unequal length pipes will now sound different.


Oh and another thing, pickles on the adaptive memory clear....I have the AEV procal, thats what i use to clear the codes.. will this method work better than the AEV procal as far as resetting the codes?

Resetting trouble codes does not reset adaptive memory. They are unrelated. You either need to follow the procedure I linked to, or have a dealership reset adaptive memory using their expensive Chrysler diagnostics tools.


My Diablo intune does not have the Quick Adjust parameters that allows me to adjust tires and gear ratio. Dan and the guys have been trying to fix/update my Tuner

The joys of being an early adopter :)
Hang in there. Based on my experience so far, Prodigy will resolve your issues.

[Snarf77]

I think the manual transmission guys are on something like the second Prodigy tune. Mine runs pretty well considering the problems the early adopters of superchargers had with their tunes. I"ll soon be climbing back under my jeep to make sure everything in the exhaust system is tight as I want to minimize the chance of exhaust-related issues causing trouble.

[UselessPickles]

I discovered a few exhaust leaks today. I taped the hose of a shop vac to the tail pipe and hooked the hose up to the outlet of the shop vac to blow air into the exhaust system. This allowed me to feel around and listen for leaks on a cold exhaust system. Be sure to not 100% seal the hose to the tail pipe, or else you might overload the shop vac motor.

Some of those leaks are BEFORE the turbo, so I wonder how much boost I'm missing out on right now. I hope get some time to try to figure out how to fix the leaks soon, then I'll have to create an updated boost curve from a data log to see how much improvement I get.

Anyone have any good tips for getting rid of leaks at the ball joints of the Prodigy exhaust? I simply tightened the clamps a lot, but that doesn't seem to be enough, and I'm afraid to continue tightening more (the clamp plates are already starting to bend).

[NOLAjeeper]

Ive got more exhaust leaks as well. The passenger side exhaust manifold, was a bad bad leak. I ordered a gasket from the dealership cost about $8.00 its going on tomorrow morning.. Had leak right under the turbo.. at the base.. we just tightened the bolts all 4 of them...also had leaks on the passenger side pipes where they connect at the "Y" joints.. we just loosened them and reattached and tightened, per Dan's advice.. We also used the smoke test method. Works really well! if theres any leaks the smoke will leak out in those areas.. hopefully the gasket will fix my check engine codes and correct my gas mileage, my computer is over compensating and pumping a lot of fuel due to the exhaust leaks..Will report back tomorrow after the leaks have been corrected..Also just ordered the stage 2 upgrade today :)

[Rexx19]

Ive got more exhaust leaks as well. The passenger side exhaust manifold, was a bad bad leak. I ordered a gasket from the dealership cost about $8.00 its going on tomorrow morning.. Had leak right under the turbo.. at the base.. we just tightened the bolts all 4 of them...also had leaks on the passenger side pipes where they connect at the "Y" joints.. we just loosened them and reattached and tightened, per Dan's advice.. We also used the smoke test method. Works really well! if theres any leaks the smoke will leak out in those areas.. hopefully the gasket will fix my check engine codes and correct my gas mileage, my computer is over compensating and pumping a lot of fuel due to the exhaust leaks..Will report back tomorrow after the leaks have been corrected..Also just ordered the stage 2 upgrade today :)

What codes are you getting? O2?

[UselessPickles]

He listed all the codes here: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2218&viewfull=1#post2218

[jeepsking]

I am so excited. My stage 2 kit is on the way :)

[UselessPickles]

I am so jealous. I don't think I'll be able to order the stage 2 upgrade for quite a while. Many months :(

[NOLAjeeper]

Okay!! Gasket was installed, all leaks are fixed! And let me tell you, what a difference that made! The jeep sounds so much nicer without all those leaks...i can actually hear the swwooshh sound of the wastegate, i can hear my dyno max evo exhaust! Just a different experience with the fixes! I cleared the code using the AEV Procal and also reset adaptive memory per Pickles link and advice! Thanks! So now we just wait and see how everything turns out. Thanks everyone!

[NOLAjeeper]

Well after driving around town with the reset adaptive memory and clearing the code.. driving around for about 30 mins very moderately.. I hear a "Diinng" and check engine light comes on.. UGH!.. sure enough its good'ol code: P0153..Ill pull the senor out tomorrow and check the harness/cables..

[UselessPickles]

If you don't find an obvious problem with the wires or connector, you could try swapping the sensor with the upstream sensor from the other side. If the error code follows the sensor, then you know the sensor is the issue.

Also double check that the upstream and downstream sensors are plugged into the correct connectors.

Also important is that the upstream and downstream sensors are different part numbers, so if an upstream and downstream sensor got swapped during the install, this could cause problems. The install guide specifically said to arrange the sensors by connector color, but I found that the connector colors were opposite on one side vs the other in stock form. One side had a black connector upstream, white connector downstream, while the other side had white upstream and black downstream. I simply kept all of my O2 sensors in the same arrangement when I moved them from the stock pipes to the Prodigy pipes, disregarding the connector colors. If your connectors were arranged based on connector color, you may have an upstream/downstream swap.

Install guide says that upstream sensors have black connectors, and downstream are white. My driver side sensors were opposite. If your problem is on the driver side, and your upstream driver sensor has a black connector, try swapping the driver side upstream and downstream connectors.

[NOLAjeeper]

Sure enough they were swapped, Driver side had black connectors upstream and white connectors downstream. I checked the wires/cables and all looked good nothing melted or ripped. I switched them out, put the white connector o2 sensors upstream and the black connectors downstream. (when i pulled the downstream o2 Sensor out they were BLACK!..I think that means im burning lean..) Flashed the codes again with the Procal. Drove for a good hour and no Check engine light so far.. So we shall see... Thanks for the Advice pickles! Oh and dont be down about not being able to upgrade to stage 2 for a while...This will give Prodigy some time to further more prefect the tune when you're ready to upgrade. :)

[UselessPickles]

I switched them out, put the white connector o2 sensors upstream and the black connectors downstream.

Did you do this on both sides, or just the driver side?

On my jeep, the passenger side upstream sensor's connector was black, and downstream was white (as specified in the Prodigy instructions). Thanks for the consistency, Chrysler!

[NOLAjeeper]

i just did this for the Driver side...So which is the correct way for the passenger side? black downstream and white upstream?

[UselessPickles]

Black upstream is correct for the passenger side. So I think you're good now. Sorry for the confusion :)

Btw - when talking about connector colors, I'm only referring to the color of the connector on the sensor. I don't remember what colors the connectors are on the wire harness side, but those should be obvious based on location. The more forward/upward located harness connector is for the upstream sensor.

I'm thinking that Prodigy's instructions should be updated to not mention connector colors, and simply say to transfer the sensors from the stock pipes to the corresponding locations on the Prodigy pipes.

[UselessPickles]

I don't remember what colors the connectors are on the wire harness side, but those should be obvious based on location. The more forward/upward located harness connector is for the upstream sensor.

I was just looking at mine, and this statement is only true for the passenger side. The driver side wiring harness has connectors for both upstream and downstream sensors right next to each other. The wiring harness connectors appear to be color coordinated to match the color of the connector of the sensor... but remember that when looking at those connections, the sensor connector you see there is the Prodigy extension cable; not the sensor connector itself, so don't trust the color of the sensor-side connector where downstream sensor plugs into the factory wiring harness :)

[jeepsking]

Sorry to be slightly off topic. Shouldn't we use a turbo timer for this kit. What brand can I fit in JK. (Used to have a supra with apexi turbo timer)

[NOLAjeeper]

I was just looking at mine, and this statement is only true for the passenger side. The driver side wiring harness has connectors for both upstream and downstream sensors right next to each other. The wiring harness connectors appear to be color coordinated to match the color of the connector of the sensor... but remember that when looking at those connections, the sensor connector you see there is the Prodigy extension cable; not the sensor connector itself, so don't trust the color of the sensor-side connector where downstream sensor plugs into the factory wiring harness :)

Yeah that confused me when i was swapping them out.. But you wont be able to connect the upstream sensor (white connector), with the downstream wiring harness... The connectors do not match up....The upstream sensor (white connector) will only match up with the white wiring harness... :)

[NOLAjeeper]

Sorry to be slightly off topic. Shouldn't we use a turbo timer for this kit. What brand can I fit in JK. (Used to have a supra with apexi turbo timer)

Ive got AEM Boost gauge along with AEM Wideband Air fuel ratio gauge that i still need to install.... :( Ill wait until the stage 2 upgrade arrives and have the shop install everything.. They will be doing a Dyno before and after the stage 2 install. Ill get Pictures and video when that does happen.. hopefully Dan ships my upgrade early next week.... and then install the week after... So 2 weeks.. i hope.. :)

[NOLAjeeper]

Off topic also... Anyone running a 2012+ Auto transmission thats had their jeep or know of someone who was able to dyno the jeep in 2 wheel drive? If so how did they achieve this... Last time i had the jeep on a Dyno it was a nightmare.. Could not shift out of 1st gear on 2 wheel drive with the manual engaged.. Turned off Traction control and even pulled out the ABS sensors in the rear wheels.. No luck.. Had to dyno in 4Hi.. Even then we could not get an accurate dyno in 4hi in 4th gear.. The jeep kept downshifting.. Any advice would help.. Thanks.

[JeepLab]

Off topic also... Anyone running a 2012+ Auto transmission thats had their jeep or know of someone who was able to dyno the jeep in 2 wheel drive? If so how did they achieve this... Last time i had the jeep on a Dyno it was a nightmare.. Could not shift out of 1st gear on 2 wheel drive with the manual engaged.. Turned off Traction control and even pulled out the ABS sensors in the rear wheels.. No luck.. Had to dyno in 4Hi.. Even then we could not get an accurate dyno in 4hi in 4th gear.. The jeep kept downshifting.. Any advice would help.. Thanks.

what a pain in the neck! Maybe the turbo guys will chime in on how to do it.

[UselessPickles]

Well, I loosened up all of my exhaust joints, disconnected them, reconnected them, and re-tightened them. Good news is that I've reduced the leaks at the ball joints to so tiny they're not worth trying to make better. Bad news is that I must have shifted or damaged the head pipe gaskets during all the pipe manipulation, so now I have leaks there. Looks like I have to order new gaskets and do it all over again.

[NOLAjeeper]

Well, I loosened up all of my exhaust joints, disconnected them, reconnected them, and re-tightened them. Good news is that I've reduced the leaks at the ball joints to so tiny they're not worth trying to make better. Bad news is that I must have shifted or damaged the head pipe gaskets during all the pipe manipulation, so now I have leaks there. Looks like I have to order new gaskets and do it all over again.

Yeah i totally understand pickles! I battled these exhaust leaks for a week!! And my manifold (passenger side) leak was Baaad! Gasket from dealership was 8 bucks.. Once you get that on if your leak is half as bad as mine you'll notice a difference in throttle response and noise. As well as gas mileage, i was burning through my tank abnormally fast. Exhaust Leaks are common and they are something we will have to keep an eye out and check up on like maintenance.

[jeepsking]

Ive got AEM Boost gauge along with AEM Wideband Air fuel ratio gauge that i still need to install.... :( Ill wait until the stage 2 upgrade arrives and have the shop install everything.. They will be doing a Dyno before and after the stage 2 install. Ill get Pictures and video when that does happen.. hopefully Dan ships my upgrade early next week.... and then install the week after... So 2 weeks.. i hope.. :)

Wow even me I got AEM WIDE BAND and greddy multi boost, pressure and temperature gauge but my questions is how to connect a turbo timer?

[NOLAjeeper]

i have no idea... :( this is my first turbo vehicle..guess you can call prodigy and ask dan or wes how to go abouts doing so...or call a reputable tuning shop and ask them..

[Timmy]

i have no idea... :( this is my first turbo vehicle..guess you can call prodigy and ask dan or wes how to go abouts doing so...or call a reputable tuning shop and ask them..

Man oh man guys... Exhaust leak this, wrong sensor that, crankcase ventilation, your own mods to fix things that Prodigy should have thought of, etc. etc... Makes me feel that the supercharger really is a more simple setup over a turbo. The only thing that could convince me otherwise right now would be if the Stage 2 really did blow the doors off the superchargers. Sounds like the stage 1 is on par, and for on par, just doesn't sound worth it (for the problems, the lengthy install, or the turbo lag.) (Please understand, this is NOT a knock on anyone that went this route as I think it is incredibly awesome that you did it vs. us fully aspirated slow-pokes, and I really would take either if given to me ;) )

Jeeplab... Screw the dyno, screw the analysis. Line up all three Jeeps, the RIPP, the Magy, and the Prodigy, hit the record button on a camera and lets watch these suckers do a race-off, IN 4 HIGH, and then post it on YouTube, and we can just end this once and for all.

[JeepLab]

Man oh man guys... Exhaust leak this, wrong sensor that, crankcase ventilation, your own mods to fix things that Prodigy should have thought of, etc. etc... Makes me feel that the supercharger really is a more simple setup over a turbo. The only thing that could convince me otherwise right now would be if the Stage 2 really did blow the doors off the superchargers. Sounds like the stage 1 is on par, and for on par, just doesn't sound worth it (for the problems, the lengthy install, or the turbo lag.) (Please understand, this is NOT a knock on anyone that went this route as I think it is incredibly awesome that you did it vs. us fully aspirated slow-pokes, and I really would take either if given to me ;) )

Jeeplab... Screw the dyno, screw the analysis. Line up all three Jeeps, the RIPP, the Magy, and the Prodigy, hit the record button on a camera and lets watch these suckers do a race-off, IN 4 HIGH, and then post it on YouTube, and we can just end this once and for all.

First, you have to keep in mind that the turbo is brand new, any power mod is going to have hiccups out of the gate. Its an evolution, and the turbo is behind both SCs in time on public jeeps getting feedback from everyone. All the power mods impove as time goes on.

We didnt "mod" anything when we put the Turbo in.

As far as lining them up 3 wide and smashing the gas pedal- The trucks themselves are not apples to apples -

Black Betty - RIPP SC
4 door
4.56 gearing
Aluminum Armor
37 inch tires

Sweet Pea - MAGNUSON SC
4 door
4.10 Gearing
Stock 32 inch tires
No armor

Jesse's Girl - Prodigy Turbo
2 door
4.88 gearing
37 inch tires
Steel metalcloak armor/flares

If they were all the same gearing, wheel tire combo, overall weight, Id have no problem lining them up.

They are all manual trans, and they all get dyno'd with 32 inch tires. So we try to cut the variables out that way. So its an engine, Stock drive train, power mod, and standard wheels and tires.

[UselessPickles]

Man oh man guys... Exhaust leak this, wrong sensor that, crankcase ventilation, your own mods to fix things that Prodigy should have thought of, etc. etc...

Checking for and solving exhaust leaks at connection points are a normal part of installing any new exhaust system, and they are easily solved. If leaks at the re-used header gasket turn out to be common, then maybe Prodigy will start including replacement gaskets in the kit. My guess is that Prodigy hasn't had problems with reusing the gaskets on any of their installs yet, so there was no reason for them to believe it could be an issue.

BTW - my leak at the header gasket is actually quite small. I can't hear it, it's not throwing any codes, and my gas mileage is still very good. I only know it's there because I sprayed soapy water on that area while blowing air into the tail pipe with a shop vac, and it created a cluster of bubbles there.

NOLAjeeper's O2 sensor issue was a simple install error caused by mistake in the install guide that can be easily fixed.

Crankcase ventilation mods I posted were cosmetic only, because I'm OCD about keeping my mods looking as "factory" as possible.

These are all minor issues. As an early adopter, I knew there was a risk of unexpected minor issues. With a major modification like this, some issues don't become apparent until many kits have been installed by many different people. It's just the nature of the beast, which is why many people wait for the early adopters to shake out the early issues. I'm being a good early adopter and providing feedback to Prodigy so that they may choose to improve their product for future customers :)

I'll gladly take these minor issues instead of something like this: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f202/magnuson-supercharger-pentastar-testing-458593-15.html#post12227585



Makes me feel that the supercharger really is a more simple setup over a turbo.

Yes, regardless of the minor install issues you mention, a supercharger install is simpler. It's just inherently simpler because it doesn't require the exhaust system to be re-routed.



Sounds like the stage 1 is on par

Being "on par" while being about $1000 less expensive is actually quite impressive. For all-out full throttle acceleration performance, even the stage 1 turbo will probably beat the superchargers.



Line up all three Jeeps, the RIPP, the Magy, and the Prodigy, hit the record button on a camera and lets watch these suckers do a race-off, IN 4 HIGH, and then post it on YouTube, and we can just end this once and for all.

I'd like to see that. I suggest including a stock jeep in that lineup for comparison :)

The problem would be that some are 2-door, some 4-door, different tires, axle ratios, and weights. The wrangler seems to be a uniquely challenging vehicle to get valid performance comparisons. Even in stock form, there's a variety of curb weights, tires sizes, and axle ratios.

[Yoinkers]

Being "on par" while being about $1000 less expensive is actually quite impressive. For all-out full throttle acceleration performance, even the stage 1 turbo will probably beat the superchargers.

Strong statement, with weak real world context ^^ (pickles, im truly a big fan, You were the first, and you installed on your own, but here we disagree.)

Maybe with the foot to the floor to the redline, it may, but in standard driving, Prodigy's own dyno shows that it makes less horsepower and torque than EVEN stock JK under 3k RPM. So in daily driving, (i rarely climb above 3k RPM) Both SCs are faster than the Stage 1 Turbo.

I spend 99.9% driving normally, Might floor it to show off once in a while, but not regularly.

We need a dyno sheet with all the powermods together. 3 lines. Then we can all pick sides and battle!

[Snarf77]

Strong statement, with weak real world context ^^ (pickles, im truly a big fan, You were the first, and you installed on your own, but here we disagree.)

Maybe with the foot to the floor to the redline, it may, but in standard driving, Prodigy's own dyno shows that it makes less horsepower and torque than EVEN stock JK under 3k RPM. So in daily driving, (i rarely climb above 3k RPM) Both SCs are faster than the Stage 1 Turbo.

I spend 99.9% driving normally, Might floor it to show off once in a while, but not regularly.

We need a dyno sheet with all the powermods together. 3 lines. Then we can all pick sides and battle!

I've driven the Ripp and my Prodigy. The Ripp is fast, the Prodigy is fast, probably a little faster.

If a person doesn't get over 3k, then they really have no business considering a power modification. There isn't much benefit to either system at 3k, especially if that is where you're shifting to the next gear.

I actually can't imagine driving any manual transmission vehicle and rarely cresting 3k rpm. My DD is a Nissan and I commonly hit 5k rpm through normal driving and achieve 42mpg. Doesn't harm a modern engine to rev a bit; likely does it some good.

I'm looking forward to the dyno, just to see if I get the mysterious less-than-stock power phenomenon.

[UselessPickles]

So in daily driving, (i rarely climb above 3k RPM) Both SCs are faster than the Stage 1 Turbo.

I spend 99.9% driving normally, Might floor it to show off once in a while, but not regularly.

Just because you spend most time below 3k doesn't mean that that's where you'll benefit most from extra power. You spend most time under 3k because most of the time you are cruising or accelerating relatively gently, using small amounts of power, and a stock Jeep has plenty of power to do that daily driving stuff under 3k. More power under 3k isn't going to help you cruise steadily and gently accelerate better.

If you have an automatic transmission and want to accelerate faster than "normal daily driving under 3k", what happens? You press the throttle, the transmission downshifts to a gear with higher gear ratio, more torque multiplication, RPMs jump up, and you're now making use of more available power (more power at higher RPMs). Press the throttle hard, and I'll bet it downshifts enough to get up to or above 3k. That 0.01% of the time that you're not "daily driving under 3k" is when you want to get moving fast (merge onto a freeway from a short entrance ramp, pass a car on a 2-lane highway, etc). When you press the throttle hard to get moving fast, it won't matter at all how much torque you have under 3k, unless you're at low speeds (3k in 1st gear is about 17mph on my Jeep).

If you have a manual transmission and want to accelerate faster, you could try to just stomp on the throttle in 6th gear on the freeway, but it would be silly to expect much useful acceleration. Your best bet is to mimic what an auto trans would do: downshift for more torque multiplication and power if you really want to accelerate, which will put you at higher RPMs.

Trying to accelerate hard under 3k is lazy and rougher on your engine than accelerating the same amount in a lower gear at higher RPM, even with a stock engine. Adding boost at lower RPM is also rougher on the engine than adding the same amount of boost at higher RPM. You get higher cylinder pressures at lower RPM because the valves are open longer, allowing the boost pressure to more fully "flow" into the cylinders. Having more boost at lower RPM with a manual transmission will make you more likely to be lazy and try accelerating hard from lower RPM, basically encouraging you to be rougher on the engine.

[Timmy]

As far as lining them up 3 wide and smashing the gas pedal- The trucks themselves are not apples to apples -
[clip, clip]
If they were all the same gearing, wheel tire combo, overall weight, Id have no problem lining them up.



Very true, very sorry. I had completely forgotten about this when I wrote my comment. You guys are doing a great job, and a great service to the Jeep community by posting so much information. Of course a side-by-side race would not be apples to apples with a 2 door, 4 doors, different gearing, different tires, etc.

I do understand the turbo is new and has issues to be worked out, just like the SC's did. I also know though that I was watching an interview with RIPP CEO, and his comment was that the turbo required much more work to install, more than a typically owner might consider, was more complex, and that was why they went the SC route. After following this thread vs. the threads on the SC, I would have to agree. From the factory, sure, turbo me all day long if it was designed by the vehicle engineers. I think for aftermarket though, with the possibility of a self install, it's clear to me that the SC is a better option for me if I can ever dig up the funds to pay for it (well, I could dig them up, but then my kids may not have straight teeth :) )

Sorry to everyone else, I see this thread has sort of spiraled since my original comments about turbo vs. SC, when the reality is, we don't have all the dyno facts for a good debate.

[NOLAjeeper]

Just a quick update on the vehicle.. Since the exhaust leaks were fixed and the O2 sensors were swapped, the jeep is running excellent! Check engine light has not illuminated after driving pretty much all day today, around town and on the highway..Probably traveled close to 100 miles total today. Usually after driving 30mins, check engine light would come on and code P0153 would show up.. Not anymore.. Im most certain having the O2 sensors in their correct placements fixed this issue. Thanks again Pickles! Just to add to the recent thread, before the Turbo i would drive the jeep very Conservative..usually would not let the RPM's go over 4.5K.. Now i live in New Orleans downtown and i live 4 Blocks from where i work..I walk a lot, and usually drive the jeep when i go grocery shopping or need it to run errands or when i feel like like driving it.. I have an automatic so i dont shift like the manuals (obviously) But since ive got a turbo under the hood...Let me tell you.. I use the entire RMP band, often! :) ITS FUN!!!!! Cant imagine what stage 2 is going to be like.==MORE FUN!!! :)

[Yoinkers]

I know it won't be completely fair as the trucks have different set ups, but Id still like to see them race. You need to get the people who make the power mods to race them.

Make RIPP drive BB
Prodigy drive JG
Mag drive SP

[Snarf77]

I know it won't be completely fair as the trucks have different set ups, but Id still like to see them race. You need to get the people who make the power mods to race them.

Make RIPP drive BB
Prodigy drive JG
Mag drive SP

If anyone is going to dog out my truck, its going to be me! One of these days we will get lined up and see what is what. Too many variable to be a fair comparison..but you are correct in that it would be cool to see.

[JeepLab]

If anyone is going to dog out my truck, its going to be me! One of these days we will get lined up and see what is what. Too many variable to be a fair comparison..but you are correct in that it would be cool to see.

Jesse does not like other guys touching his girl.

[boosted1]

I know it won't be completely fair as the trucks have different set ups, but Id still like to see them race. You need to get the people who make the power mods to race them.

Make RIPP drive BB
Prodigy drive JG
Mag drive SP

I dont know how many people are interested in racing lifted Jeeps but I do know who holds all the HP and Torque records for both the 3.8L JK and the 3.6L

970
333RWHP AND 342LBFT 3.6L AUTO STAGE 1


971
352RWHP AND 409LBFT 3.8L 6SPD STAGE 3 STOCK MOTOR

I'm pretty sure there wont be any takers on this one. Turbo for the win.
Next week I will start a thread for the El Diablo Rosso it is currently running 12psi and WOW it is sick.

[UselessPickles]

I dont know how many people are interested in racing lifted Jeeps

Actually, I could see it happening as a sand dune hill climb race :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y25i1RP9Eyo


That's at Silver Lake State Park in Michigan. I'll be testing out the Prodigy Turbo there soon. I think my stock tires are going to hold me back. I need some sand paddles!




Next week I will start a thread for the El Diablo Rosso it is currently running 12psi and WOW it is sick.

:eek:

12 psi on the Pentastar? I'd guess that's going to push it over the 400 mark for both torque and horsepower. I'm interested to hear whether the Pentastar ends up needing any upgrades to safely handle 12 psi. It would be pretty awesome if it was limited to a wastegate spring and maybe a fuel pump booster. Then you could add some methanol injection to the package for a reasonable price :)

[UselessPickles]

Look what the fedex delivery truck brought me today:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_and_bov.jpg

[NOLAjeeper]

Do it come with instructions??..

[UselessPickles]

Dan sent me a draft of the install guide via email, which should be enough to get me through the install (with maybe a call for clarification along the way).

I'm not sure whether the draft is complete enough for your shop to be willing to proceed. Have you contacted them for a status update yet?

[UselessPickles]

As I've mentioned before, I will be painting the intercooler black. Check this out:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1QL9veQaNg

They just used basic black paint. I'm using special radiator paint that is designed to emit heat efficiently and spray on thin to avoid clogging the fins, etc. I'd like to see how the results with this paint would compare to the basic black paint in that video.

[UselessPickles]

Here's what a black intercooler looks like. Ignore the block of wood and shiny ends of the intercooler. This was just a quick test fit. The shiny ends will be covered by the black silicone couplers.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_test_fit.jpg

[NOLAjeeper]

Dan sent me a draft of the install guide via email, which should be enough to get me through the install (with maybe a call for clarification along the way).

I'm not sure whether the draft is complete enough for your shop to be willing to proceed. Have you contacted them for a status update yet?

Just got back in town this evening.. Going first thing tomorrow to the shop and picking up the jeep.. And the dyo runs. I will update tomorrow.

[NOLAjeeper]

Here's what a black intercooler looks like. Ignore the block of wood and shiny ends of the intercooler. This was just a quick test fit. The shiny ends will be covered by the black silicone couplers.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_test_fit.jpg

Looks AWESOME! how did the install go? Pretty easy im guessing..

[UselessPickles]

My install is not done yet. I've done some painting, and I did some of the prep-work today that makes room for the charge air pipe (new relocated coolant reservoir, and replaced power steering line).

I don't think I'll finish this week. With the way projects always go for me, I won't be able to finish in one evening after work. There's a chance of rain every day this week except Monday, and I'm driving across the state to go play on sand dunes on Friday. Too risky.

Good news is that I already have plans to go back to the sand dunes in September, so I'll get to try stage 2 out there soon after trying stage 1 there.

Today's disaster was learning the hard way that I don't know how to properly tap threads. I broke my thread tap off in the frame (for mounting the coolant reservoir). Turns out, your supposed to turn thread taps VERY slowly. I'm guessing I spun it too fast with the drill motor, causing it to heat up and either expand, or partially melt/weld itself in. I had a lot of fun drilling and hammering it out of the hole. Then the hole seemed threaded, so I tried threading a bolt in. I met some resistance about half-way in. I thought it was just a rough spot I could power through. Next thing I know, the end of the bolt is snapped off in the hole I just spent so much time clearing the thread tap out of. A lot more drilling got me back to an un-threaded hole of the proper size. Ran out to the hardware store for a new bolt and thread tap. This time I oiled the thread tap and turned it VERY slow (variable speed drill motor with low-speed setting). I could have saved myself about 3 hours had I known this.

[Snarf77]

Today's disaster was learning the hard way that I don't know how to properly tap threads.

Practice makes perfect! At least you know now. OF course..you probably won't use a tap again in the next 5 years.

[UselessPickles]

(clarification: This is still about the stage 1 turbo. I have not installed stage 2 yet)

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/l/t1.0-9/1233962_927308580619172_2428520433852012408_n.jpg? oh=ba0f98ab21e4d31d8499cdd884378e8d&oe=5465A30B

Sand dunes with a turbo is fun!


So here's some notes/observations from the weekend...


My new trailer was perfect for hauling camping gear:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10352976_10204507530118283_4555411878526024792_n.j pg?oh=deef10ca0f2fc19c0849141c93b84295&oe=5466147B&__gda__=1417390031_5b50ee996e2176e64a556dd3c8fdec9 c


It was about 210 miles from home to the dunes, nearly all freeway. Trailer is 500 lbs, plus I would estimate ~250 lbs of stuff in the trailer and the Jeep. Two adults and two small children. I basically set the cruise at 65mph (max speed rating of the trailer tires) for most of the trip. I tracked MPG on separately on the way there, and on the way back, both with the dashboard (computer) display, and the old fashioned hand-calculated way.

There: 25.5 mpg (computer), 22.5 mpg (hand calculated)
Back: 24.1 mpg (computer), 21.8 mpg (hand calculated)

The return trip had several factors that lowered economy: Pure gas on the way there, vs half tank of 10% ethanol mixed with half tank of pure gas on the way back. More air conditioning on the way back. Also got stuck in backed up traffic for a couple miles on the way back (complete stop, slow creeping forward, etc).


At the dunes, the turbo was fun. I had way more power than I had traction. I need some better tires :). According to some data logging, I generally used around 50% throttle in the 4000+ rpm range when climbing the steepest dunes. The turbo was definitely spooled up during all climbs, and the wastegate singing loudly.

Engine temperature was never a problem. Coolant temp is unfortunately not logged in the data logs, but I observed that the temp gauge was always right in the center, or slightly to the right of center (after a couple repeated attempts at climbing a tall/steep dune).

Intake temps are where I had a problem. During street driving, intake temp usually settles in around 110*F. It will rise up to about 180*F during a full throttle pull through all of 2nd gear and into 3rd a bit (basically up to freeway speeds starting from about 25mph), but then will pretty quickly drop back down to around 110*F. At the sand dunes, it ended up settling to about 170*f in between dunes, and would exceed 250*F during the steep dune climbs (and sometimes trigger a P0112 code: IAT sensor circuit low). Keep in mind that this was a lot of continuous high RPM, high engine load, driving at low speeds in deep/loose sand on a humid and sunny day. This is about the most extreme abuse my Jeep will ever see.

Adding the intercooler from the stage 2 kit will definitely help with this a lot. I should hopefully find out just how much it helps when I return to the dunes next month.

If intake temps are still a concern with stage 2, then I'll consider insulating the exhaust with either ceramic coating or some sort of wrap. I think I would prefer ceramic coating.

My current thoughts are that there's no heat concern with stage 1 for street driving or easier off-road driving. Multiple hours of continuous sand dune fun seems to be too much for stage 1. I expect that stage 2 will be just fine at the sand dunes without additional heat reduction mods.


Here's a video from last year at the sand dunes to give you an idea of the type of driving. Big dunes start around 1:55:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWOnMm22WAM&list=UUkKwiMwQ-ErcTqG93NAbWXQ

[Snarf77]

This looks like a lot of fun. This is a type of driving that most east coast jeepers will never experience.

[UselessPickles]

It fits! Just barely. I did not have to trim the grill.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_and_grill_installed.jpg

Intake temps are much lower now. About 30*F lower for steady cruising, and about 70* cooler at the end of a full throttle acceleration through the entire RPM range in 2nd gear. The BOV sound is more enjoyable than the sound of air rushing backwards through the turbo.

Data logs show that there's about 8-9% more air going into the engine from about 3700 rpm to red line. This seems to be in agreement with Prodigy's peak dyno number claims (relative comparison between stage 1 and 2), which show stage 2 having about 10% more peak torque.

More details to come later.

[Pznivy]

looks great!

[Snarf77]

It fits! Just barely. I did not have to trim the grill.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_and_grill_installed.jpg

Intake temps are much lower now. About 30*F lower for steady cruising, and about 70* cooler at the end of a full throttle acceleration through the entire RPM range in 2nd gear. The BOV sound is more enjoyable than the sound of air rushing backwards through the turbo.

Data logs show that there's about 8-9% more air going into the engine from about 3700 rpm to red line. This seems to be in agreement with Prodigy's peak dyno number claims (relative comparison between stage 1 and 2), which show stage 2 having about 10% more peak torque.

More details to come later.

Solid work. Its amazing how that fat intercooler fits behind the grill with JUST enough room that no trimming is needed. Prodigy nailed that one on the head.

[jeepsking]

Cant wait to install mine. Nice work jeff.

[2k13jk]

Looks awesome now make that wastegate external and let it scream

[UselessPickles]

Not sure what you mean. It already has an external wastegate (not part of the turbo). Do you mean convert to an open dump pipe rather than reintroducing the bypassed exhaust back into the exhaust system? If so, then no thanks :)

[boosted1]

The black looks good. What did you do about the stainless clamps? Also liked the mythbuster video lol.

[Snarf77]

The black looks good. What did you do about the stainless clamps? Also liked the mythbuster video lol.

Pickles is fierce with a spray can! It was a fun conversation we had that, in theory, the black painted intercooler is more efficient because the paint increases the surface area. We all know more surface area does mean more cooling...

:cool:

[UselessPickles]

The black looks good. What did you do about the stainless clamps? Also liked the mythbuster video lol.

Thanks :)

For the clamps, I scuffed them up with sandpaper, wiped them down with rubbing alcohol to clean them, then sprayed them with flat black BBQ grill paint.

[Timmy]

Pickles is fierce with a spray can! It was a fun conversation we had that, in theory, the black painted intercooler is more efficient because the paint increases the surface area. We all know more surface area does mean more cooling...

:cool:

Ba hahaha... So by this logic, me putting on a big puffy down jacket should make me cooler, because the jacket increases my surfaces area, thereby increasing my cooling... :cool: Timma!

[Snarf77]

Ba hahaha... So by this logic, me putting on a big puffy down jacket should make me cooler, because the jacket increases my surfaces area, thereby increasing my cooling... :cool: Timma!

Ha! All joking aside - He's just down for the sleeper look. I'm sure he could blow a mustang out of the water with those stock wheels and all that boost. I bet some minds have been blown at stop lights!

[UselessPickles]

So by this logic, me putting on a big puffy down jacket should make me cooler

Close... except not at all. Increased surface area is not the only criteria for cooling more efficiently. A big puffy down jacket uses materials designed to be a great thermal insulator. It fits loosely on your skin, minimizing direct heat transfer from your skin to the jacket. It is thick with a relatively flat/smooth surface, so it has a very low surface-area-to-volume ratio. That means it has a relatively high capacity for storing heat and relatively low ability to transfer heat to surrounding air.

Radiator paint is specifically designed with materials to be a great thermal conductor. Unlike your jacket, it bonds directly to the surface for great heat transfer from the radiator/intercooler into the paint. The paint layer itself is thin (low capacity for storing heat) with a rough textured surface, so it has a very high surface-area-to-volume ratio, greatly increasing the surface area for transferring heat to the surrounding air. It's like covering the entire intercooler with tiny heat sink cooling fins.

Then, as described in the "myth buster" video, the black color emits heat radiation more efficiently. On the flip side, it also absorbs heat radiation more efficiently too. If I had been thinking better at the time, I would have left the back of the intercooler unpainted. The radiator and A/C condenser are right behind the intercooler and are likely to be emitting more heat radiation than the intercooler has to give off, so the intercooler will absorb heat radiation from the back. Leaving the back unpainted would minimize this effect.

[UselessPickles]

I bet some minds have been blown at stop lights!

Haven't had a chance to do that yet. Even if I did line up next to something decent, I wouldn't go for it because my launching skills are embarrassing :(

[Timmy]

Close... except not at all. Increased surface area is not the only criteria for cooling more efficiently. A big puffy down jacket uses materials designed to be a great thermal insulator.

[clip, clip]


Oh Pickless... This is what I envision you look like when someone makes a joke ;-)

Timma!!!

http://www.millsworks.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/writing_process.gif

[JeepLab]

Oh Pickless... This is what I envision you look like when someone makes a joke ;-)

Timma!!!

http://www.millsworks.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/writing_process.gif

That cartoon is hysterical.

[UselessPickles]

Stupid internet and its inability to communicate intent of sarcasm...

I like this visual of typing until fingers fly off: http://www.marketmenot.com/kayak-fingers-fly-off-commercial/

[jeepsking]

Dan sent me a draft of the install guide via email, which should be enough to get me through the install (with maybe a call for clarification along the way).

I'm not sure whether the draft is complete enough for your shop to be willing to proceed. Have you contacted them for a status update yet?


Can i get the same instructions. I have reached till intercooler installations.

[UselessPickles]

You'd probably be better off contacting Prodigy to get the most recent version of the instructions. I'm sure they've been improved by now. But if you PM your email address to me, I'll send you what I have.

I also need to find some motivation to write up my experience with installing stage 2...

For the intercooler installation, I actually found it easier to get the intercooler solidly mounted, centered, etc., before attaching any of the hoses to it. The instructions have you install the hot-side (turbo-side) hose before bolting the intercooler in place. When following these instructions, I had a very hard time fighting against that hose to get the intercooler centered.

That hose connecting the turbo to the intercooler is in a VERY tight space. Lube up the end of that hose to help it slide onto the intercooler more easily (I used a thin layer of dish soap - harmless, and becomes a bit sticky when dry), and be prepared to test your patience :)

[UselessPickles]

Finally getting around to documenting the stage 2 upgrade install. I went slightly out of order compared to the official instructions because there were 2 steps that could be conveniently done separately, independent of other steps, and not force you to commit to finishing the complete upgrade. If you want to get a head start on either a stage 2 upgrade, or a complete stage 2 install, you could do these 2 steps as separate complete (relatively quick) projects and still have a fully functioning jeep until you are ready to dive into the rest of the install.

First, I replaced the power steering hose:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ps_hoses.jpg

Stock hose on top, new hose on the bottom. The solid metal portion of the right end of the stock hose is in the way of the charge air pipe that comes up from the intercooler, to the throttle body.

I succeeded in completing this job without making a mess with power steering fluid! I chose to disconnect the power steering pump side of the hose first (passenger side). First, I used aluminum foil to form a pseudo-funnel to redirect fluid from the bottom of the pump cleanly into a bucket. Once the end of the hose is disconnected, let it drip til it's done.

In the picture above, you can see 2 metal clamps on the original hose. Those are bolted down behind the bottom of the radiator. Once you get the hose out of the engine bay, pry those clamps of and put them on the replacement hose.

Here's a view of the new hose connected to the steering gearbox. This is on the driver side, looking down, radiator fan is to the right. This is right where the stock coolant reservoir sits.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ps_hose1.jpg


Clamps holding in place behind the radiator:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ps_hose2.jpg


And the other end connected to the power steering pump:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ps_hose3.jpg


I needed less than a quart of power steering fluid (ATF-4 trans fluid, as specified by owner's manual) to replace what drained out. Instructions tell you a procedure to follow make sure you get air out of the system.

This is the high pressure side of the system, so it should be quite obvious right away if you have a leak. I had no leaks :)

EDIT: I did have a leak. Learn from my mistake: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3627&viewfull=1#post3627

[UselessPickles]

UPDATE: new coolant reservoir location: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3638&viewfull=1#post3638



The second independent/separable step is getting rid of the stock coolant reservoir (it's in the way of the charge air pipe for stage 2 as well), and installing a new reservoir in a different location.

Here's the new reservoir:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_parts.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_assembled.jpg


It's a Meziere 28oz Coolant Recovery Tank: https://www.meziere.com/ps-1444-1377-wr100s.aspx


And this is where it gets mounted, behind the front bumper on the passenger side:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_installed1.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_installed2.jpg


This requires drilling holes and tapping threads. Take your time and double check the positioning, mark where you want the holes, etc. I actually mounted mine slightly differently than Prodigy's instructions. Their instructions show the tank mounted slightly further back and lower, causing the bottom of the tank to hang down lower than the part of the frame that it is mounted to. I found that there was barely enough room to mount mine flush with the bottom of the frame. The positioning of the top mounting hole ended up being VERY close to a large existing hole in the frame, so i had very little room for error when drilling that hole.

Don't repeat my mistake when tapping the threads: I used the drill motor with the thread tap, spun it too fast, and got it stuck in the hole, then ended up snapping the tip off in the hole. That was fun to drill that out. Lesson learned: tap VERY SLOWLY. You're supposed to twist the tap by hand, but I just couldn't keep it steady enough with my hand. I ended up using the drill motor again, but this time I oiled the tap for lubrication, and did my best to simulate twisting by hand with the drill motor by doing short, slow, smooth bursts of drilling, to avoid overheating the tap.

The original hose from the radiator to the coolant reservoir gets reused. Just run it straight down from the radiator cap and find a path forward to connect up with the new reservoir.


Yes, you will have to remove the two mounting bolts and pull the reservoir out a bit if you want to take the cap off and check the coolant level in it. I would much prefer another semi-transparent plastic container that is easy to visually check, like the one in the RIPP kit. But the space where RIPP places their reservoir just isn't available with the turbo installed.

Also, this reservoir is much smaller than the stock reservoir. I spent some time looking up info about how much 50/50 coolant/water mix expands/contracts with temperature. I don't remember specifics, but I did find enough info to conclude that this reservoir is pretty much the smallest you could possibly go for the amount of coolant in the Pentastar. Because it's so close, it might just take a little trial and error to get it filled to the correct level so that it doesn't overflow when hot to the extreme (idling in traffic on a hot summer day), and doesn't allow air to be sucked into the system when cold on the coldest winter days.

[UselessPickles]

Let's take another look at this coolant reservoir:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_vent_filter.jpg


The vent for the reservoir is just directly on top of the reservoir, at bumper level. Not only is this pretty low for a vent on a Jeep that may go in deep water, but it's quite exposed to rain water that runs down behind the bumper. The filtered cap will keep debris out, but water runs right through it (I tested!). I found this to be unacceptable, but easy to fix.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_vent_parts.jpg


That's about 4 or 5 feet of 7/32" vacuum hose and a 1/8" male NPT to 1/4" hose adapter, from a local auto parts store. Just replace the filter cap on the reservoir with the hose fitting.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_modified_with_vent_hose.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_installed_with_vent_hose.jpg


And run the vent hose along the same path as the coolant overflow hose:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/reservoir_vent_hose.jpg


No more worries about getting dirty water into the coolant system.


Follow this link to skip to the next post with installation details: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3589&viewfull=1#post3589


-------- UPDATE --------

New location for the coolant reservoir is much better:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12LR5t8xxJY

[boosted1]

you will have to remove the two mounting bolts and pull the reservoir out a bit if you want to take the cap off and check the coolant level in it. I would much prefer another semi-transparent plastic container that is easy to visually check, like the one in the RIPP kit.

You do not need to remove the reservoir to check fluid level. You can just remove the center cover between the grille and the bumper. This will allow access to view fluid level and top off as necessary. Do you have a pic of the Ripp plastic container? i would like to see it...

[UselessPickles]

You do not need to remove the reservoir to check fluid level. You can just remove the center cover between the grille and the bumper.

I must just have horrible luck with those stupid plastic fasteners that hold the plastic cover down. I usually have to resort to partially or fully destructive methods to remove them. For me, it's quicker/easier to unbolt the reservoir. Have any tips for removing those plastic fasteners?


Do you have a pic of the Ripp plastic container? i would like to see it...

Here's a couple pics I found online:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Si_7kMqgUMI/maxresdefault.jpg

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2014/07/29/12055717/RIPP%20Supercharger%20Story.jpg


I found the PDF installation guide at one point, but can't find it again now. They have a bracket that mounts using the original bolts on the stock air box support. The reservoir just drops/slides down onto the bracket. It appears to me that they just found an OEM reservoir from some other vehicle that happens to fit in that space, then made a custom bracket for it, but that's just my speculation.

[jeepsking]

Thanks jeff for the instructions, i have contaced Dan and he sent me the installation manual but yours better.

Just finished with installation with couple of issues:

1- Check engine code P0129 related to map sensor. I have updated the tuner. Might had to clear it and check again but a second issue is there.

2- A heavy leak between the turbine and the down pipe. (Clamp removed and i can see a space and miss match)

3- can't figure out the rest of the leak cause the second issue was the big and noisy.

I am tired now can't think, ill better rest and think later.

[UselessPickles]

A heavy leak between the turbine and the down pipe. (Clamp removed and i can see a space and miss match)

IMPORTANT: See update at the bottom of this post!

I found that the connections between the turbine housing, turbo feed pipe, wastegate and downpipe all didn't want to easily match up to each other. I got the best results by doing this:

1) Loosen all exhaust connections from the turbo back to the head of the engine, including loosening the V-band clamp connecting the the down pipe to the turbine housing, and the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the turbo feed pipe. Loosen the head pipe bolts and ball joints just enough to allow sliding/rotating movement. Loosen everything else more to allow large amounts of movement (especially the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the feed pipe).
3) Double check that the wastegate is perfectly seated onto the turbo feed pipe, and put the clamp on (squeeze the clamp into place with pliers, but don't tighten yet).
4) Get the other end of the wastegate firmly seated into the down pipe, and put the clamp on (squeeze the clamp into place with pliers, but don't tighten yet).
5) Wastegate should be guaranteed to be properly seated and leak-free now.
6) Mate the turbine housing to the downpipe and partially tighten the v-band clamp. The goal is to have the clamp prevent the joint from separating, but allow it to rotate if necessary. It should be easy get this joint to line up flush because of all the slack in the connection between the turbine housing and the feed pipe. Loosen those 4 bolts more if necessary to get enough slack.
7) Lightly snug up all 4 bolts (but don't tighten!) holding the turbine housing to the feed pipe. The short flex pipe between the wastegate and downpipe will get flexed/stretched slightly as necessary as these bolts are snugged.
8) Finish tightening the v-band clamp for the down pipe, and tighten the wastegate clamps.
9) At this point, the turbo, wastegate and downpipe should be all locked together as one complete assembly, with all joints completely sealed. There should be no other possible orientation of all these interconnected joints.
10) Loosen the 2 bolts holding the down pipe to the engine. Have someone apply pressure to the turbo to make sure the whole system is shifted as far upward and toward left side of the vehicle as possible as you re-tighten those 2 bolts (reduces contact between the air filter and right-side inner fender liner).
11) Confirm that the air filter will not be too far forward or rearward, contacting anything (like the trimmed air box support). If necessary, have someone apply pressure forward or rearward on the turbo as you tighten the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the feed pipe.
12) At this point, the main turbo system should be locked into place where it should be relative to the engine, via the 3 mounting points to the engine. The rest of the exhaust system back to the engine should now just be in whatever orientation is necessary to allow the turbo system to be where it needs to be.
13) Tighten the pipes to the heads of the engine.
14) Tighten the ball joints in the exhaust.


------------- UPDATE --------------
Prodigy now has a more detailed and different recommendation for how to install the turbo and pipes. This new method worked better for me. Here's their video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOWdymjon_Q]

it's important to have another 1-2 pair of hands to help when making the second wastegate connection. I had one person support the weight of the turbo while I laid under the Jeep, reaching up to shift everything around to align the wastegate connection, then another person slilped the clamp over the wastegate connection while I held it in perfect alignment.

Then when tightening the turbo V-band clamp, do it in stages where you tighten it a bit, then jiggle the connection and tap the clamp with a soft mallet to help get that V-band connection in perfect alignment.

[Snarf77]

I found that the connections between the turbine housing, turbo feed pipe, wastegate and downpipe all didn't want to easily match up to each other. I got the best results by doing this:

1) Loosen all exhaust connections from the turbo back to the head of the engine, including loosening the V-band clamp connecting the the down pipe to the turbine housing, and the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the turbo feed pipe. Loosen the head pipe bolts and ball joints just enough to allow sliding/rotating movement. Loosen everything else more to allow large amounts of movement (especially the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the feed pipe).
3) Double check that the wastegate is perfectly seated onto the turbo feed pipe, and put the clamp on (squeeze the clamp into place with pliers, but don't tighten yet).
4) Get the other end of the wastegate firmly seated into the down pipe, and put the clamp on (squeeze the clamp into place with pliers, but don't tighten yet).
5) Wastegate should be guaranteed to be properly seated and leak-free now.
6) Mate the turbine housing to the downpipe and partially tighten the v-band clamp. The goal is to have the clamp prevent the joint from separating, but allow it to rotate if necessary. It should be easy get this joint to line up flush because of all the slack in the connection between the turbine housing and the feed pipe. Loosen those 4 bolts more if necessary to get enough slack.
7) Lightly snug up all 4 bolts (but don't tighten!) holding the turbine housing to the feed pipe. The short flex pipe between the wastegate and downpipe will get flexed/stretched slightly as necessary as these bolts are snugged.
8) Finish tightening the v-band clamp for the down pipe, and tighten the wastegate clamps.
9) At this point, the turbo, wastegate and downpipe should be all locked together as one complete assembly, with all joints completely sealed. There should be no other possible orientation of all these interconnected joints.
10) Loosen the 2 bolts holding the down pipe to the engine. Have someone apply pressure to the turbo to make sure the whole system is shifted as far upward and toward left side of the vehicle as possible as you re-tighten those 2 bolts (reduces contact between the air filter and right-side inner fender liner).
11) Confirm that the air filter will not be too far forward or rearward, contacting anything (like the trimmed air box support). If necessary, have someone apply pressure forward or rearward on the turbo as you tighten the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the feed pipe.
12) At this point, the main turbo system should be locked into place where it should be relative to the engine, via the 3 mounting points to the engine. The rest of the exhaust system back to the engine should now just be in whatever orientation is necessary to allow the turbo system to be where it needs to be.
13) Tighten the pipes to the heads of the engine.
14) Tighten the ball joints in the exhaust.


I hope After going about it differently the first go round..this is almost exactly how we achieved success in alignment. Excellent write up that I hope modifies/supplements future versions of Prodigy's install manual.

Your Steps 6 and 10 were critical steps for our install, having done it differently the first time. Adding to step 14, we definitely had to use the impact to get a nice tight seal on those ball joints. I love those joints for their ability to flex around and still get a solid seal.

[jeepsking]

As Snarf said: your instructions are much superior and professional to PD installation.
i will try these tomorrow as today is a family day. My way of driving is extreme, hope i won't bend any exhaust.

[jeepsking]

Ok. I am done with the install. Thanks Jeff and everyone. Started the vehicle and got several codes (check engine) manage to clear them. Started driving and had a bad throttle response with another check engine code P2173 (throttle actuator control system - high air flow detected. Cant drive it Had to put my car on a recovery to get it home :(. I will contact PD , i might done something wrong.

[UselessPickles]

A vacuum leak can cause that code. Double check all hoses that connect to the intake manifold. I really hope you didn't mangle any of the intake manifold gaskets while reinstalling it.

[jeepsking]

A vacuum leak can cause that code. Double check all hoses that connect to the intake manifold. I really hope you didn't mangle any of the intake manifold gaskets while reinstalling it.

As instructed i have connected the passenger side pcv to the intake with chk valve pointing towards the intake and the breather to atmosphere. I am sure that I haven't mangel the seal. The O2 sensors the driver side up-stream white and down black and vise versa on passenger side. I have sent PD my back up file and last tune ( they are so helpful) hope to get the right tune. As I stated before that i have another problem cause i have artech reinforcements kit installed and i have almost 3/4 of an inch clearance plus the return line is so close to it. The only way is aether i cut it or buy another branded axel housing.

[UselessPickles]

As the temperature started dropping with the change from summer to autumn over the past several weeks, I started hearing water "rushing" sounds behind the glovebox every time I started the engine, but only if the engine was cold.

After letting the engine cool down, I would open the radiator cap and find that it was a bit low on coolant. At first I just tried topping it off and burping air out of the system, but the problem would just come back after the next full warm-up/cool-down cycle.

I couldn't find any signs of leaking. Scary possibilities started running through my mind, like a slightly failed head gasket either allowing coolant to be burned, or allowing combustion gasses into the coolant.

The total amount of coolant in the system (including the reservoir) seemed to be stable, so that ruled out leaks and burning of coolant. But somehow air gets into the system. I finally decided to just go through and re-tighten all the heater hose clamps (all connections on the new heater hoses that are part of the turbo kit).

The water rushing sound diminished with each warm-up/cool-down cycle after this, and was completely gone after about 2-3 days! It's now been several days with no problems. I'm guessing that a combination of cooler weather causing more extreme temperature swings in the rubber hoses, along with the hose developing a "memory" of the clamp compression, caused the connections to loosen up just enough that air could be sucked in past those connections as the coolant cooled down and contracted, but not loose enough to allow coolant to leak out.

I wonder if it might have been better to use re-use the original spring clamps, which will maintain a steady clamping force even as the hose compresses and develops a "memory". At this point, it's not worth the effort and mess to pull all those hose connections apart and swap clamps. I just hope I don't ever have to re-tighten them again.

[NOLAjeeper]

As the temperature started dropping with the change from summer to autumn over the past several weeks, I started hearing water "rushing" sounds behind the glovebox every time I started the engine, but only if the engine was cold.

After letting the engine cool down, I would open the radiator cap and find that it was a bit low on coolant. At first I just tried topping it off and burping air out of the system, but the problem would just come back after the next full warm-up/cool-down cycle.

I couldn't find any signs of leaking. Scary possibilities started running through my mind, like a slightly failed head gasket either allowing coolant to be burned, or allowing combustion gasses into the coolant.

The total amount of coolant in the system (including the reservoir) seemed to be stable, so that ruled out leaks and burning of coolant. But somehow air gets into the system. I finally decided to just go through and re-tighten all the heater hose clamps (all connections on the new heater hoses that are part of the turbo kit).

The water rushing sound diminished with each warm-up/cool-down cycle after this, and was completely gone after about 2-3 days! It's now been several days with no problems. I'm guessing that a combination of cooler weather causing more extreme temperature swings in the rubber hoses, along with the hose developing a "memory" of the clamp compression, caused the connections to loosen up just enough that air could be sucked in past those connections as the coolant cooled down and contracted, but not loose enough to allow coolant to leak out.

I wonder if it might have been better to use re-use the original spring clamps, which will maintain a steady clamping force even as the hose compresses and develops a "memory". At this point, it's not worth the effort and mess to pull all those hose connections apart and swap clamps. I just hope I don't ever have to re-tighten them again.

I have that same sound when the engine is cold and i start up the jeep. Fluid rushing through the hoses.. Only when the engine is cold.. Which hoses did you re-tighten, i will have to do the same.. but im not sure which ones to look for since i did not do the install.. Jeff and you send pics to me or describe which hoses im to look for? thanks!

[UselessPickles]

It's the two hoses that run up the middle of this picture, connecting to the heater core:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_no_cover_top.jpg


Just tighten up all the hose clamps related to those two hoses. Snug them up good, but don't over-tighten. You'll know that you over-tightened when the worm gear skips a tooth. If that happens, it's time to get a new clamp, which can be found at any hardware store. Luckily, this style of clamp can be completely opened up to be removed/installed around the hose without disconnecting the hose, so it's not that big of a deal if you have to replace a clamp.

[NOLAjeeper]

It's the two hoses that run up the middle of this picture, connecting to the heater core:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/install/under_hood_no_cover_top.jpg


Just tighten up all the hose clamps related to those two hoses. Snug them up good, but don't over-tighten. You'll know that you over-tightened when the worm gear skips a tooth. If that happens, it's time to get a new clamp, which can be found at any hardware store. Luckily, this style of clamp can be completely opened up to be removed/installed around the hose without disconnecting the hose, so it's not that big of a deal if you have to replace a clamp.

Just checked my clamps..i was able to tighten them 2 rotations.. they were a bit loose. Whats that breather you have hooked up to?

[jeepsking]

Good news :)
I have done a silly mistake by installing the MAP sesor plug the otherway around. Now everything thing is good. I like it. PD team helped me and i thank them. Thanks to Jeff for giving a guide for trouble shooting. About the water sound behind the dash , i heard it too.

[Snarf77]

The water sound behind the dash likely has nothing at all to do with the turbo setup. Its been an "issue" Chrysler has been looking at for a whi (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=jk%20water%20sound%20behind%20dash)le.

[UselessPickles]

Whats that breather you have hooked up to?

That's the breather for the PCV system, which connects to the driver-side valve cover. This is my own temporary setup because the kit at one point had no solution for filtering the air that gets sucked in there (fresh air enters there to replace the oily air that is sucked through the PCV valve/hose into the intake manifold). Prodigy has since started including a breather filter that fits right into the original hose that used to connect to the air filter box. I hacked up my original hoses/pipes for the PCV system to experiment with some alternative setups. I actually have new replacements on order at a dealer so I can finalize my PCV setup and start using the new breather filter from Prodigy.


Good news :)
I have done a silly mistake by installing the MAP sesor plug the otherway around. Now everything thing is good.

I didn't know there was more than one way that the MAP sensor could physically be hooked up. Please share details of how it can be accidentally hooked up wrong. We'll try not to tease you too much if it was a really stupid mistake :)


About the water sound behind the dash , i heard it too.

That's expected right after installing the turbo kit. There's probably air in the system from draining/refilling the cooling system. It should work itself out in a few days. You should check the coolant level in the radiator and the reservoir when the engine is cold and add more coolant if necessary.


The water sound behind the dash likely has nothing at all to do with the turbo setup.

In this case for me, it was clearly due to the heater hose connections allowing air into the system. All the clamps were a bit loose (because the hoses had compressed under the clamps over time), and the problem worked itself out after I tightened up all the clamps. I suspect NOLA's water sound issues will now disappear within a couple days. If so, then that's more evidence that the worm-gear clamps are not ideal for this application.

If you have the water sounds AND no/low heat blowing out of some of the vents, then you have a clogged heater core that needs to be replaced. This is a known issue caused by casting sand leftover in some engine blocks. This is covered under warranty. Another possible cause for this is mixing HOAT and OAT coolant, which turns into very nasty/gooey stuff and would NOT be covered under warranty.

If you get the water sound with every cold start, but heat works fine... check your coolant level (radiator AND reservoir). Burp air out of the system and top off the radiator.

If the problem is now permanently fixed, then you just had some stubborn air in the system.

If the total amount of coolant remains stable after you top it off, but the problem keeps coming back, then air is being introduced into the system somehow every time you drive, so you probably have a slightly loose seal somewhere (in my case, slightly loose hose clamps). Worst case would be a bad head gasket allowing some combustion gasses into the cooling system, but that would likely cause more severe problems.

If the total amount of coolant is not stable (losing coolant), then you either have a coolant leak somewhere, or a bad head gasket that is allowing coolant into the cylinders, which is being burned off.

[jeepsking]

The extension adapter provided by PD for the MAP SENSOR. I am referring to the connection between the extension adapter and the engine harness adapter which can be easily miss installed the slot looks identical either way.


Ok my impression about the kit:
It's good but i have an issues regarding the initial pick up. ie: full throttle at low rpm below 2000 will easily lend to a cut off in power theb gradually it starts boosting. Even once it reaches 4500 i can feel a power loss at 3rd gear Jeff can you confirm if it happen to you also since you have a manual transmission.? I used an app called dash command for data logging and discovered that the timing has been set to +12 for most of the rpm's and gears.

My boost is reading 8.1 psi. I didn't install the AEM WIDE BAND yet so i can't determine the fuel ratio.

[UselessPickles]

i have an issues regarding the initial pick up. ie: full throttle at low rpm below 2000 will easily lend to a cut off in power theb gradually it starts boosting.

A few possibilities I can think of:

1) You don't have the latest tune improvements that Jessee and I have been testing. We received the updates as custom tunes. I don't know if the improvements have been pushed out to the official Prodigy tune on Diablosport's servers yet. The latest tune has big improvements in the lower RPM area.

2) I have found that the turbo does not respond well to sudden full throttle, especially at low rpms. The engine seems to bog down a bit with sudden full throttle. From low rpms, instead of stomping on the throttle, try a smooth transition to full throttle. You can still quickly transition to full throttle, but just don't suddenly stomp on it. At higher rpms (4000+), it will respond more quickly to sudden full throttle, but smooth throttle transitions will always give you the best results because it allows for the turbo to keep up with your demands. I believe this is just a normal characteristic of a relatively large turbo. It doesn't bother me, because I prefer smooth acceleration transitions anyway (your drivetrain probably prefers acceleration transitions as well).

3) The turbo can't really produce a lot of boost until somewhere above 2500 rpm. 1st gear accelerates quite well below 2500 rpm, but if you are in a higher gear, then you'll always get the best results from downshifting to get rpms above 2500 rpm if you really want to accelerate. That's one way the automatic transmission would be better. If you use a lot of throttle with the auto transmission, it will downshift. The manual transmission gives us the opportunity to be lazy and wish we could just accelerate quickly from lower rpms :)



Even once it reaches 4500 i can feel a power loss at 3rd gear

I think I need a more detailed explanation of this to understand it. Are you talking about driving steadily in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm, then stomping on the throttle? If so, then there will be an initial lack of power as the turbo spools up. This is boost lag.



My boost is reading 8.1 psi.

Now we've got 3 people making about 8.0-8.2 psi boost. Jessee increasingly appears to be the outlier with 9 psi boost! This really makes me want to crank the boost up to 9 psi with a manual boost controller to experience some extra fun :)

[jeepsking]

A few possibilities I can think of:

1) You don't have the latest tune improvements that Jessee and I have been testing. We received the updates as custom tunes. I don't know if the improvements have been pushed out to the official Prodigy tune on Diablosport's servers yet. The latest tune has big improvements in the lower RPM area.

I made my data log and ill send it to PD for the custom tune. My only concern for low RPM because i do extreme dune bashing with almost 15 jeepers in the desert. We climp high dunes. We sometimes race down to top as you posted couple pages back. This requires initial pick up (i am not talking about turbo spool but the vehicle tends to cut till it reach 2300 then it respond then the turbo spool.

Regarding 3rd gear. Once i put full throttle while in seconds and shift to 3rd till it reach 4500 here where i feel the loos of power then it come back at 5800 ( the turbo sound different at that stage).

This Friday i am going to the dunes to try it. Might shoot a video :)

[UselessPickles]

I got a nice data log of full throttle boost in 2nd gear today and made a chart from the data:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/boost_2nd_gear.png


Interestingly, I don't even hit 8 psi in 2nd gear. I do hit 8 psi (barely) in 3rd gear. It's normal to not get as much boost in lower gears where engine speed is increasing quickly and the engine is under less load. I think this concept might possibly explain why I'm getting a bit less boost than NOLA and jeepsking: I have a bare-bones 2-door with tiny stock wheels/tires (very light, low rotational inertia of tires/wheels), which would result in less engine load and quicker increases in engine speed as compared to a heavier jeep with bigger tires.


UPDATE: I had an exhaust leak causing a small loss of boost. Details later in the thread here: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3705&viewfull=1#post3705

New boost curve:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/boost_2nd_gear_update1.png

[UselessPickles]

We climp high dunes. We sometimes race down to top as you posted couple pages back. This requires initial pick up (i am not talking about turbo spool but the vehicle tends to cut till it reach 2300 then it respond then the turbo spool.

I confirmed with Prodigy that the new improvements to the tune are not yet available on Diablosport's server. Most of your issues should disappear once you can get the updated tune.

Also, in deep sand, it's quite fun and relatively safe to rev the engine up and dump the clutch. Tires will initially lose traction for a nice 4WD "burnout", but as they dig down into the sand, they have more surface area contact with the sand and gain traction quickly for a nice launch that doesn't shock the drivetrain as if you did the same on dry pavement.


Regarding 3rd gear. Once i put full throttle while in seconds and shift to 3rd till it reach 4500 here where i feel the loos of power then it come back at 5800 ( the turbo sound different at that stage).

I don't think I've experienced anything like this. I'd wait to see if this issue goes away with the updated tune before worrying about it.


This Friday i am going to the dunes to try it. Might shoot a video :)

Yes! I still have not heard what my turbo and BOV sound like from outside the jeep as it drives by.

[UselessPickles]

Ok... time to finish documenting the stage 2 upgrade. I left off with a new power steering hose installed and a new/relocated coolant reservoir.

I didn't get a lot of pictures, but most of it is quite straightforward.

* Remove the wastegate, replace the hose fitting with a different type of hose fitting, and replace the spring with a new spring. Two people are required to replace the spring, because you need to have someone hold the wastegate together while you remove all the bolts holding it together. Same for putting it back together with the new spring. Re-install the wastegate.

* Remove the hose fitting from the turbo compressor outlet and replace it with a plug (a grub screw). I used plumber's thread tape here to prevent leaks. This step is required because the wastegate will no longer be getting its boost source from the turbo compressor outlet (details later).


The intercooler install is the fun part. Remove the grill. If I have to tell you how to remove it, then you shouldn't be attempting the turbo install :)

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/grill_removed.jpg


I used blocks of scrap wood under the intercooler to help get it into its proper position before marking and drilling holes to mount it. It's a tight fit, but it does not require any trimming of the grill.

NOTE: I have a manual transmission, so I didn't have to deal with replacing the transmission cooler. That's an extra step (and cost) for anyone with an automatic trans.

Here it is propped up by a block of wood for a test fit:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_test_fit.jpg


And some details of the final result to give you an idea of how it should be positioned...

It touches the back side of the grill in a few spots:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/grill_touching_intercooler.jpg


This plastic here needs to be trimmed to make room for the intercooler hose (both sides). A Dremel with a routing bit was used for the rough cut, then a sanding drum bit to clean it up:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_hose_clearance.jpg


The instructions say to just completely remove the thin flexible air deflector material in this area, but I chose to try to keep as much of it as possible. An xacto knife cut through that material quite easily.


And here you can see that cylinder that's part of the A/C condenser, right behind the intercooler:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ac_cylinder_behind_intercooler.jpg


I had to gently, but firmly, push on that cylinder to bend it slightly backward at its base. This reduced the amount of pressure it applies on the intercooler against the grill.


Once you have test fitted the intercooler and trimmed the plastic, I got the best results from mounting the intercooler before hooking up any hoses. This is how I got my intercooler perfectly centered. Instructions have you connect the intercooler to the turbo before mounting it, but I found this made it extremely difficult to get the intercooler lined up with the holes to get the bolts in, and impossible to get it centered.

To connect the turbo to the intercooler, you need to slightly loosen the compressor housing bolts so that the compressor housing can rotate. The power steering reservoir also needs to be un-mounted so that it can be moved out of the way. It's easiest of you also remove the air filter so you have more room to push the power steering reservoir aside.

The silicone elbow is fed in from the engine bay through to the grill area, and connected to the intercooler. It's tight in there, so be prepared for some frustration. A small amount of dish soap helps the silicon hose slip onto the intercooler. Then the compressor housing is rotated forward, popping the silicon elbow onto it. The end result looks like this:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/turbo_rotated.jpg


Before you get too far ahead, double-check the clearance between the intercooler hose and the trimmed plastic. I had to remove the silicone elbow and do some more trimming.


The power steering reservoir doesn't quite fit in its original location. You need to remove the mounting bracket and trim a couple locating tabs off of it (Dremel cut-off wheel worked well) so that the mounting bracket can be rotated upside down and slightly tilted like this:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ps_reservoir_bracket.jpg


And a plastic rib on the reservoir's mounting tab needs to be trimmed a bit so that it can be mounted under the bracket instead of on top:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ps_reservoir_mounted.jpg


I added a few washers to drop the reservoir a bit lower. Without the washers, the hood would contact the reservoir's cap when closed.


The other side of the intercooler is a bit easier to hook up. A silicone elbow is similarly fed through from inside the engine bay to connect to the intercooler. Then the charge pipe (with BOV) is connected to that elbow. There's two A/C lines that will need to be gently bent to make room for the pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/ac_lines_clearance.jpg


The last silicone elbow connecting to the throttle body is different from that of the stage 1 kit, so you'll have to transfer the IAT sensor over to the new part (if upgrading from stage 1).


All that remains is to hook up the vacuum/boost lines to the wastegate and BOV. I'll save that for another day.

[UselessPickles]

I guess I'll just finish up now, since I've already fully documented my wastegate and BOV setup elsewhere. Just some copy, paste, and edit work...


So as I've already discussed in a few other places on JeepLab's forum, I did not follow Prodigy's design for the BOV and wastegate lines. Go back to this post to see some details I already covered about where the wastegate line gets connected with stage 2, and where it really should get connected: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?146-JeepLab-Prodigy-Install-LIVE&p=2740&viewfull=1#post2740

Quick review...

This link has cool info and pictures to explain stuff: http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/boost-sag-no-you-dont-need-ebc-47532/

http://www.miataturbo.net/attachments/diy-turbo-discussion-14/53988d1346793381-boost-sag-no-you-dont-need-ebc-2-gif

The wastegate should be connected to position "B", between the intercooler and the throttle body.

Stage 1 has the wastegate connected to position "A". Since stage 1 has no intercooler, this is fine. Without an intercooler, there is no significant difference in pressure measured from position "A" or position "B".

The official instructions for stage 2 have you connect the wastegate to position "C". This post explains why position "C" is bad: http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/boost-sag-no-you-dont-need-ebc-47532/#post574757


For my install, I used one of these to add a boost source at position "B" for my wastegate:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-010&Category_Code=BCS

http://jeeplab.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1023&d=1409091246



Here's the boost source for my waste gate:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/wastegate_boost_source.jpg


I zip-tied the waste gate line to the BOV line, and at two points on the radiator fan shroud. One of the points is simply tied to an existing wire that is secured to the fan shroud. I had to drill a small hole through an "arm" of the fan shroud closer to the BOV to add a zip tie there and hold the wastegate line away from the exhaust down pipe.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/wastegate_line.jpg


And here's how my BOV line is teed into an existing vacuum source on the intake manifold:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/bov_line.jpg

[UselessPickles]

And some pictures of the final result:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/intercooler_and_grill_installed.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/under_hood_top.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/under_hood_side.jpg

[Gunner]

They should just make this thread their install manual.

[JeepLab]

They should just make this thread their install manual.

Pickles, that ^^ is the best compliment ive ever seen. Well done.

[UselessPickles]

Thanks :)

And there's so many details that could be better explained if I had taken the time to take more pictures, and many details I did not describe because they are already explained well in the install guide. After trying to document my install as best as possible, I have a new appreciation for how much effort would be necessary to create a complete, detailed, step-by-step install guide.


I still have a few more details that I will get to documenting eventually. I have a final PCV hose setup now (until I decide to try working in some oil catch cans in the future), an idea for a better location for the coolant reservoir, and a story about a tiny power steering fluid leak that became a serious leak requiring immediate attention after I tried fixing it.

[UselessPickles]

I may have shot flames out of my exhaust :eek:

After a full throttle acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear, I quickly let off the throttle and shift into neutral (with the intention to shift into 6th gear as soon as the engine speed comes down) around 50mph, because I'm on a public road and want to avoid speeding. A split second afterward, I hear a significant muffled "pop" come from behind/below the jeep.

This has happened a few times recently. My wife heard it the other day and also immediately wondered if I had just shot flames out the tailpipe.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I wonder if this is an indication that the tune is a bit too rich?

I might have to stick my GoPro on the back of the jeep and attempt to re-create this situation at night.

[NOLAjeeper]

I may have shot flames out of my exhaust :eek:

After a full throttle acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear, I quickly let off the throttle and shift into neutral (with the intention to shift into 6th gear as soon as the engine speed comes down) around 50mph, because I'm on a public road and want to avoid speeding. A split second afterward, I hear a significant muffled "pop" come from behind/below the jeep.

This has happened a few times recently. My wife heard it the other day and also immediately wondered if I had just shot flames out the tailpipe.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I wonder if this is an indication that the tune is a bit too rich?

I might have to stick my GoPro on the back of the jeep and attempt to re-create this situation at night.

Happens to me every time i go full throttle, pedal to the floor and then let off. I hear that loud ass POP from the exhaust! :)

[jeepsking]

Happens to me every time i go full throttle, pedal to the floor and then let off. I hear that loud ass POP from the exhaust! :)

It happens to me also. Jeff please try this. Put the gear in second and at 1500 rpm press full throttle. Tell me what happens before it reach 2500.

I promised Dan to shoot a video but didn't have a chance.


By the way i don't know why i received a short elbow pipe which is between the intercooler and the turbo, seems like the gave me an extension pipe to add, but when i saw Jeff close setup then realised that i got it wrong. Now every time i boost on hills the pipe comes out.

[UselessPickles]

Put the gear in second and at 1500 rpm press full throttle. Tell me what happens before it reach 2500.

If I try that today, I'll probably crash because it's snowing here :)

When I recently recorded a data log to make the boost curve chart (http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=3577&viewfull=1#post3577), that was full throttle in second gear from about 1500 rpm. I don't remember anything particularly bad happening, other than just generally not accelerating very quickly until after 2500 rpm.

It's been so long since I've driven with a stock engine that I can't tell whether it's slower, faster, or the same as stock in the low rpm range. Part of the sluggish feeling is likely due to relative comparison to how hard it accelerates above 2500 rpm, but I think there's still some issues with the tune in that area as well.

My data logs still show long-term fuel trims suddenly going extremely negative at 1500 rpm, then suddenly returning to more "normal" values around 2600 rpm. When accelerating lightly/moderately in 1st gear, especially with a cold engine, I feel a sudden decrease in power as I pass 1500 rpm, then a sudden jerk and surge in power right around 2600-2800 rpm. The severity varies with the amount of throttle I'm using, and the problem becomes fairly subtle when the engine is fully warmed up. The relationship between the long-term fuel trims and the acceleration behavior seems to close to be coincidence, and seems to me to indicate a problem with the tune. If tuned properly, the computer should not have to take away 20+% fuel in the 1500-2600 rpm range.

Have you gotten a custom tune from Prodigy yet?



By the way i don't know why i received a short elbow pipe which is between the intercooler and the turbo, seems like the gave me an extension pipe to add, but when i saw Jeff close setup then realised that i got it wrong. Now every time i boost on hills the pipe comes out.

The longer 1-piece silicone elbow that I have is a newer part that Prodigy now has custom ordered for the stage 2 kit. The shorter elbow that you have is a "standard" size (easy for Prodigy to obtain) that they used at first before getting the custom size. The shorter version requires a short metal pipe to be used as a coupler to attach a short extension of silicone hose to reach the turbo. You'll end up with 3 hose clamps in a row, right next to each other to connect the turbo, extension, coupler and elbow all together.

There's not much room for error, so you just need to get the coupler perfectly centered between the elbow and extension, get the hose clamps lined up perfectly and make sure all the hose clamps are tight. You also might need to double-check the angle of the compressor housing outlet compared to the angle of the silicone hose to make sure they are meeting each other in a straight line. The silicone hose only overlaps the compressor outlet just barely enough to use a hose clamp. Get that hose clamp right up to the very edge of the silicon to ensure that it is fully clamping down against the compressor outlet, rather than trying to squeeze the silicone off the end of the compressor outlet.

[UselessPickles]

Here's an update on my setup of the PCV system. First, a refresher of what I did with the PCV hose (hose from the PCV valve to the intake manifold): http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2116&viewfull=1#post2116

What I didn't talk about back then was the other half of the system: the "make up air" hose, which in stock form allows fresh filtered air from the air filter box to enter the crankcase, replacing the air that was sucked out through the PCV valve.

At the time of my previous posts about the PCV system, Prodigy was still working on how to deal with that side of things. When I first received the stage 1 kit, they completely disabled the PCV system and simply tied both vents from the engine together into a road draft tube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system#Road_draft_tube), which is just nasty, messy and smelly.

When Prodigy sent me the parts to hook up the PCV hose with a check valve, the instructions had me keep the road draft tube hooked up to the "make up air" vent on the engine. This was unacceptable, because air gets sucked INTO the engine through that tube now! That just seemed like a disaster waiting to happen (tires kicking up dust under the vehicle where the end of the tube is, submerging the tube in water, etc). I immediately ran out to an auto parts store and found a breather filter that I was able to rig up satisfactorily to the original make up air hose, but it was kinda ugly and temporary, so i didn't show it off. Prodigy told me at the time that they were still working on finalizing their solution to the make-up air side of the PCV system.

I have since received a small breather filter (smaller than the hideous monstrosity I had rigged up) from Prodigy with a hose coupler that I believe is intended to be used to attach the filter to the end of the rubber hose that had previously connected to the air filter box. That just so happens to be the same curvy rubber hose that I sacrificed to modify the PCV hose (in the link at the beginning of this post) so I could add the check valve into the system while retaining an OEM look with the formed plastic hose.

So here's the OEM "make up air" hose without its curvy rubber hose:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/pcv_update_1.jpg


The breather filter conveniently fits right onto the end of that plastic hose:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/pcv_update_2.jpg


Highlighted in that photo are:

The breather filter.
Zip ties holding the heater hoses away from the filter, and also preventing them from touching the intake manifold way in the back.
A zip tie holding a small plastic vacuum line up. That vacuum line used to be connected directly to the intake manifold, holding it in place. But now with the rubber vacuum hose used to tee in the BOV sensing line, it wants to fall down onto the oil filter cap.


A close-up of how the heater hoses are anchored with zip ties:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/pcv_update_3.jpg


I like the final result. As close to OEM appearance as I can get:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/pcv_update_4.jpg



With the breather filter mounted directly onto the plastic hose, it gets hidden by the the plastic engine cover.

Since there was recent talk about adding oil catch cans to the supercharger setups, I think it's worth mentioning that the Prodigy setup doesn't have any oil vapors going through the turbo or intercooler. The only time oil vapors are entering the intake is when there's vacuum in the intake manifold pulling oil air directly through the PCV hose. When you're making boost, it's all fresh air coming in.

The down-side to this setup is that when you are making boost, piston blow-by gasses pressurized the crankcase and cause oily vapors to flow backwards through the the "make-up air hose", through the breather filter, and dumping out to atmosphere under the hood. This is not ideal because:

Pollution. It definitely won't meet emissions requirements. Won't even pass a visual inspection, if you have those in your region.
Sometimes you can smell that oily air, especially after some full throttle in the summer with the top down, then coming to a stop or slowing down soon afterward.
When hooked up in stock form, there's a slight amount of vacuum in the air filter box under high engine load conditions that helps suck the blow-by gasses out of the crankcase through the make-up air hose. When venting to atmosphere, it's a bit less efficient at keeping the crankcase air clean.



In the future, I'd like to explore the option of adding a hose fitting to the end of the air filter (the main air filter on the turbo) so that I can run the make-up air hose through an oil catch can and back into the air filter for a fully closed PCV system. Less pollution, no oily smells ever, and slightly cleaner crankcase air. The only problem is that the tune from Prodigy was designed with purely fresh air when on boost, so I would run the risk of knocking/detonation as a result of lowered effective octane from whatever oil makes it past the catch can. To be 100% safe, I think this would require some serious testing/monitoring by someone that knows what they're doing to determine whether a custom slightly less aggressive tune is necessary to keep things safe. I'm not sure I'll ever get motivated enough to be willing to pay for professional testing and possibly custom tuning for this.

I may discuss with Prodigy at some point to see if they think it would be safe enough to setup, then send them some data logs afterward to see if any tweaks to the tune are necessary.

[UselessPickles]

I just found some more pictures worth posting...

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/mounting_intercooler.jpg

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo_stage2/connecting_iat_sensor.jpg


Installing stage 2 was a husband/wife bonding experience :)

[Gunner]

Thats very cool that your wife comes out to help. Mine will get dirty when she has to but otherwise she is happier keeping me company and filled with liquids.

[NOLAjeeper]

When Prodigy sent me the parts to hook up the PCV hose with a check valve, the instructions had me keep the road draft tube hooked up to the "make up air" vent on the engine. This was unacceptable, because air gets sucked INTO the engine through that tube now! That just seemed like a disaster waiting to happen (tires kicking up dust under the vehicle where the end of the tube is, submerging the tube in water, etc). I immediately ran out to an auto parts store and found a breather filter that I was able to rig up satisfactorily to the original make up air hose, but it was kinda ugly and temporary, so i didn't show it off. Prodigy told me at the time that they were still working on finalizing their solution to the make-up air side of the PCV system.

I have since received a small breather filter (smaller than the hideous monstrosity I had rigged up) from Prodigy with a hose coupler that I believe is intended to be used to attach the filter to the end of the rubber hose that had previously connected to the air filter box. That just so happens to be the same curvy rubber hose that I sacrificed to modify the PCV hose (in the link at the beginning of this post) so I could add the check valve into the system while retaining an OEM look with the formed plastic hose.



Jeff, that breather is hooked up to the hose that is attached on the drive side of the engine, that vents out to the atmosphere and hangs above the transmission? Thats that hose right?

[UselessPickles]

Yup. But to say that it "vents out" above the transmission is misleading, because the engine actively sucks air IN through that hose any time there is vacuum in the manifold!

I'm reusing the original plastic breather hose, so Prodigy's hose is not involved in my setup at all.

Now that I think of it, Prodigy's intent with this new breather filter may be to simply attach it to the end of their breather hose that hangs above the transmission. This would at least filter the air coming into the crankcase, and would minimize oily smell by not being in the engine compartment, but I wouldn't want my crankcase vent down there when I'm splashing through mud/water. I really don't know what the latest official Prodigy setup is now with regards to the PCV system.

In case you are interested in obtaining new OEM hoses for the PCV system, a dealer should be able to easily find them in their system if you describe it to them as "pcv hose" and "make-up air hose". One was $15.85 and the other was $17.50.

[2k13jk]

May i recommend as you mentioned earlier us with the ripp are adding oil catch cans for the pcv systems i suggest adding one to your turbo setup as any forced induction motor should have one from what my tuner told me. Also the boost entering the pcv system essentially pressurizing the crank case is not a very good thing to do it puts more uneeded stress on internals. Ripp sells the check valve for the pcv system for 60 bucks or comes standard on the kit it lets the manifold suck air thru when not under boost but when boost enters it closes and no boost will enter the crank case

[UselessPickles]

2k13jk: Review the design of the PCV system with the Prodigy kit as I've described (admittedly, scattered across a couple posts)...

Keep in mind that there's two importantly distinct sides of the PCV system:
1) PCV hose, running from the PCV valve to the intake manifold.
2) Breather, or make-up air hose, from an open valve cover vent (no check valve of any type) to the intake system, somewhere up-stream from the throttle body (not a vacuum source), but down-stream from the air filter (source of fresh filtered air).

There already is a check valve in the PCV hose with the Prodigy kit: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=2116&viewfull=1#post2116

So there is no boost directly entering the crankcase.

Normal operation for the PCV system is that manifold vacuum sucks air out of the crankcase through the PCV hose. The breather hose allows fresh, filtered air to enter the crankcase, replacing the oily air that was sucked out.

But when on boost, cylinder pressures are much higher than a non-boosted engine, which creates quite a bit more piston blow-by than a non-boosted engine. This causes a reverse airflow from the crankcase through the breather, because that's the only exit path available (The check valve in the PCV hose is held closed by manifold boost pressure). This happens with all the boosted systems.

With the supercharger setups, the breather hose is connected back up to the intake system (like the stock setup). This is why you get oil in the intercooler and supercharger. And this is why adding a catch can to this hose can improve on-boost performance, and even allow for a "hotter" tune.

With the Prodigy kit, the breather hose has its own air filter and is NOT connected back up to the intake system. The Prodigy kit does not suffer from the consequences of oily crankcase air when on boost. I fully described this in my recent post about my PCV setup, including reasons that it's not ideal, and that I'd really prefer to eventually run it through a catch can and back into the intake.

Adding a catch can to the PCV hose has less of an impact on a boosted engine, because oily air only comes through that hose when there is vacuum in the manifold (partial throttle, light load, not when trying to make big power). A catch can here does not prevent oil from coating the inside of the intercooler, because this hose is a direct line from the crankcase to the intake manifold, skipping past the whole intake system.