The secret to more power....

[KaiserBill]

Become one with the diesely goodness!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdWNaUvxtTs

The video was added later because Timmy pointed out to me in the below post that my post was in its original state too vague. So, I added this video not clarify my claims of power which I did in the response to his post-- but to merely make the post more relevant for people who don't have the same background in Diesel Engine Theory that I do.

He again commented on this fact on the second page and that is why I am now putting up this disclaimer. I do not like the Bruiser Conversion-- it is far too conservative in its power-- being only a stock swap. The point of the video is that diesel is a viable power option that appears to have some demand in the community! That is all.

[Timmy]

Become one with the diesely goodness!

[@Disable KaiserBill_Derpy_Script]

Well, this IS why top-fuel funny cars are all diesels, right? Moar power. And let's not forget about cigarette boats, all the fast ones are diesel powered. And the fastest prop planes, yep, diesel powered. Nascar's, all diesels. Race bikes, again, diesel. Embrace the diesel, it creates MOAR power than all and is used for every major vehicle category when speed is on the line.

In an effort to bring SOME form of Jeep discussion back to the forums versus watching you attempt to seek the approval and accolades from a bunch of Jeep people on your military vehicle... This Jeep is CRAZY! Ahh shoot, I'll say it, this Jeep would destroy your deuce in an off-road battle. It would quite literally run circles around your precious deuce.

[@Enable KaiserBill_Derpy_Script]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFylP-fRXDI

[KaiserBill]

I didn't say race applications were the best for diesels traditionally speaking. I simply said power and my statement is correct! You can turn a Cummins BT 4 (inline 4 cylinder and 3.9L) engine from 120hp to 800hp or more without really any effort. And that would fit into your Jeep very easily! And while traditionally speaking the Diesel Cycle is not the first choice of race cars mainly due to the fact that they have lower redline limits. Today's modern high-speed diesels can rev-up to almost 7000rpm. So, yeah if you could afford an Audi TDI V10 5.5L race engine you would get about 590hp and 774ft-lbs of torque. Or stick a Peugeot HDI 908 5.5L V-12 that made about +700hp. Myself, I care more about just simple power and well a cummins BT4 sucking on WM-50 with 80PSI of Boost and fuel pressure from the pump at about 100PSI is a 900+HP combination. Oh and this actually probably at the wheels... And the best part is you really don't have to all that much to the engine to these types of power out puts. Where as to get 900HP on pump gas for a 6.4Hemi conversion is a serious undertaking. Where as the BT4 modifications are very very simple to do.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUW9os-Ybh0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE5s72Td18k


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AOp64SBL8k


So, perhaps, you might want to retract your statements and bring them into line with reality??? Or not... I'm just discussing power options-- i could care less about acceptance. You people want to talk about power and my suggestion is go Diesel. The Hemi Conversions and other V8 power options are okay. But if you want to play with pump fuels and not spend up to 100K on making the engine work at above 1000hp ratings-- Diesel is your only option really. Most of the engines you find in the $15,000 USD range that street engines top out at 700-800hp over a 1000-1500hp and you're looking at 30-45K and 1500-2500hp you're talking in the 60-100k price. So you take that same 15K and you spend it on a diesel and produce 1100Hp-1500hp easily. Spend about 100K and you can turn a big size diesel into a 3000hp to 4000hp monster! But, a nice little BT4 running a nice tune could easily get you +900hp at the wheels for about $8.500 and the rest is spent putting into the frame.

But that is why you don't get it. This is a perfect option for a Jeep if you ask me. It gives you everything you want more power, and more torque. And if you do it right you won't even have to worry about top end speed. So tell why isnt' a diesel option perfect for a Jeep's primary application? Other than you just don't know what you are talking about?

[Pznivy]

Nascars don't turn 37s. Dump trucks do.

[UselessPickles]

I didn't say derpy derpity duuurp the derpity for derpity derpy duuurp.

Actually, that's essentially what it looks like you said to me. Then again, everything you say looks like that to me :)

[KaiserBill]

To me it makes perfect sense if you want lots of power and torque than a diesel is the best option. Some people like V8's well the Duramax and Cummins V8 diesel for pickups can be tuned to extreme levels as well. If I wanted to get 900Hp at the wheels from a Jeep my first choice would be diesel.

[KaiserBill]

Nascars don't turn 37s. Dump trucks do.

11R22.5 is more like 42 inches in diameter and that is pretty standard on most road going vehicles. Myself, I like 14.5R20's and they average 43-45 inches in diameter and 14.5 inches wide and 14.86 inches wide.

[Rexx19]

Im pretty sure the DURAMAX is the best powerplant on earth.

Apologies to the Corvette LS7/LS9

[KaiserBill]

Im pretty sure the DURAMAX is the best powerplant on earth.

Apologies to the Corvette LS7/LS9

There is a guy that had a truck on the cover of the Diesel Truck or Diesel Engine and it was a Duramax that made 675hp and it was his daily driver and could turn it up to 800hp very easily if he wanted to. So, the Duramax does have the ability to create some serious power if you want to do it.

Well, I like the Detroit Diesel Old School 2-stroke engines myself. They sound like a muscle car V8 and then sound like a raped ape when you get them to 2100-2300rpm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1XbZYJwsaA

But this is what I like!!!

[KaiserBill]

Rock On Cork!!! Rock On!!!!

Actually, that's essentially what it looks like you said to me. Then again, everything you say looks like that to me :)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHEykVL9t4

[UselessPickles]

Huh... a video has now mysteriously appeared in the original post in this thread that suddenly the whole point of this thread more clear.

[KaiserBill]

Huh... a video has now mysteriously appeared in the original post in this thread that suddenly the whole point of this thread more clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHEykVL9t4

All I See Now...

[UselessPickles]

Although... that video hardly reveals the "secret to more power". The basic kit is only about 140 hp, and can be "turned all the way up" to push 250-300 hp. That's a whole lot of money and major conversion work for to get less power than the stock Pentastar. Then a whole lot more money to upgrade it to be more powerful.

(yes, I know there's other advantages to the huge low-end torque, but the title of this thread was "the secret to more power...", and in that regard, the initial post fails to deliver)

[KaiserBill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6KWsIFqoso


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFoIMK-FG6w

[UselessPickles]

First you post a new thread simply stating that the secret to more power is diesel... without backing up the claim at all, or elaborating on it at all.

Then you rant about how there do exist diesel engines that make a lot of power, so therefore your statement was correct. None of them were applicable to the Wrangler.

Then you go back and modify your original post AFTER plenty of discussion has happened with something that actually is relevant to the Wrangler and deisel, making Timmy's initial response look somewhat idiotic (slick move there!).

So now your first post here essentially says "the secret to more power is a $21k engine swap on the Wrangler that actually has LESS horsepower than the stock Wrangler". So the secret to more power is less power?

I call you out on that and your response is a giant diesel engine that probably weighs as much as my entire Jeep and is nearly the size of my Jeep. Seriously... could you at least TRY to stay relevant? Who the f**k cares that a giant "largest motor ever built for a semi truck" can produce a metric shit-ton of power/torque? In case you haven't noticed, this is a Jeep Wrangler forum. That engine is never going into a Wrangler, so it has absolutely no relevance to a discussion of adding more power on a Wrangler forum.

[ljvsnyder]

i will bite, if i had a choice for a diesel wrangler that is what would be in mine. why better mileage and more low end torque. sure my 6 cylinder cummins was capable of more than 1000 whp, but it weighed close to 4000lbs. not practicle in our smaller wrangler. now cymmins new isb 4 cylinder with that is anticipated in the nissan frontier would be agood option for a next gen wrangler. however ford is proving tune ability with the ecoboost similar to diesels. so gas or diesel choose your poison.

[KaiserBill]

Timmy looks the way he does because that is who he is! I cannot help that Timmy doesn't know as much about diesel engines and spoke too soon. I added the video to make it clear that people do want diesel conversions so it is a viable topic. I didn't care to show Timmy up at all in that post. My response did that when I picked apart his statements about no one races with diesels . Then I showed two of the most successful cars in Le Mans lately the Audi and the Peugeot. The Peugeot is straight diesel engine only setup and the Audi R-18 is a hybrid V6 Diesel-Electric deal (like a train). They are still diesel engined cars and they produce massive power on diesel fuel that you can get from any pump.

The Pickup only has a 5.9L engine and it can be fit into an older Jeep with a straight six engine. I couldn't' find a good 4BT really setup to produce massive hp-- but if you read enough diesel literature that is present you see that a diesel engine like the 4BT series are being tuned to perform on the street with 800-900hp at the rear wheels all day long on pump fuel. The 24V71 was only shown because unlike engines you find in funny cars that use Nitro-based fuels that add oxidizer to the fuel and therefore can burn more fuel efficiently this engine runs on Pump Fuel Cetane 40. i originally wanted a guy in Australia that I read about that has a 8v92 Twin Two Stage engine that makes 4000-4200hp. But I couldn't find the video on it.

The fact that diesel is far easier to modify and create massive hp levels than a gasoline engine. That is just a basic fact about the differences in the operations of the engines.

[Timmy]

I absolutely love how KaiserBill goes back and edits his posts after people have replied and quoted them, sometimes changing the post entirely. Now that is a sign of a person secure in who they are.

[Timmy]

First you post a new thread simply stating that the secret to more power is diesel... without backing up the claim at all, or elaborating on it at all.

Amen brother, preach it.


Then you rant about how there do exist diesel engines that make a lot of power, so therefore your statement was correct. None of them were applicable to the Wrangler.

Uu huh! youz tellz em!


Then you go back and modify your original post AFTER plenty of discussion has happened with something that actually is relevant to the Wrangler and deisel, making Timmy's initial response look somewhat idiotic (slick move there!).

Yyyyyyeeeessss sir, come-on now, preach it, let the truth be told, devil get back...


So now your first post here essentially says "the secret to more power is a $21k engine swap on the Wrangler that actually has LESS horsepower than the stock Wrangler". So the secret to more power is less power?

I call you out on that and your response is a giant diesel engine that probably weighs as much as my entire Jeep and is nearly the size of my Jeep. Seriously... could you at least TRY to stay relevant? Who the f**k cares that a giant "largest motor ever built for a semi truck" can produce a metric shit-ton of power/torque? In case you haven't noticed, this is a Jeep Wrangler forum. That engine is never going into a Wrangler, so it has absolutely no relevance to a discussion of adding more power on a Wrangler forum.

Amen, amen, and amen. Let us all bow our heads, for Preacher Pickles has spoken and delivered us a good word. Amen.

[UselessPickles]

Preacher Pickles

Funny enough... I actually am a Reverend.
I paid about $7 for a certificate that says so.
And I have even used my authority to officiate a wedding :)

[KaiserBill]

I absolutely love how KaiserBill goes back and edits his posts after people have replied and quoted them, sometimes changing the post entirely. Now that is a sign of a person secure in who they are.


What no derpy-derby? I was just taking your advice and making the topic easily understood by people with lesser cognitive powers. I thought it was self evident that I was speaking of all diesels; including those that Jeep themselves plan on putting into the Cherokee series vehicles from the factory to aftermarket factory models for the Wrangler. You seemed to think this was some sort of attack on Jeeps. And I merely felt it was necessary to clear up my intent. I'm sorry that you don't have the same love and respect for the diesel engine and its theoretical and practical achievements.

As for diesels that could fit in the modern Jeep JK and JKU series trucks-- obviously the older B-Series BT and ISB 3.9L engines and the new ISF series 2.8 and 3.8 L series engines. You might also be able to stick under the hood older DD 4-53T's and DD 3-71T's--- a fun option but it would require more effort but might be possible with crafty plumbing... The MAN D0834 Engine an inline 4 with displacement of 4.6L is rather compact and very nice-- plus it would once again bring the Jeep back into the fold of German Engineering--and in the house that Rudolf Diesel himself put on the map!!!! So, that has a nice symmetry to it.

As for the Wrangler V8 502 with fully computerized suspension-- you have to ask yourself if it is so capable why then did vehicle drive on such tame terrain? Not to mention such slow speeds.... Both of those facts make me ask is the suspension system up to the rigors of true off-road driving? If it stands up to hard use then I'm very impressed-- however, my feeling is that it is probably a very costly and temperamental system that is complex and failure prone.

While I couldn't find a video of the M35A2's tests for the US-- I did find the Russian Ural 4320 series video-- it has very similar capabilities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztrgPO0wcgI


I still find it amusing that after I soundly proved that Diesel vehicles can be fast and effective in motor racing and drag racing you seemed to have no comment? Are you saying that Peugeot's 20 wins with the HD908FAP vehicle is not impressive? Or Audi's dominance at Le Mans for nearly a decade and half with diesel cars is not also impressive? Or is it if it isn't found in our home grown arena of achievement it is meaningless? I would hope you would be more open minded about the possibilities of the diesel cycle! I think we should celebrate the birthday of Rudolf Diesel like that of Jesus Christ after all who's life is not affected by the diesel goodness in some positive fashion???

[KaiserBill]

i will bite, if i had a choice for a diesel wrangler that is what would be in mine. why better mileage and more low end torque. sure my 6 cylinder cummins was capable of more than 1000 whp, but it weighed close to 4000lbs. not practicle in our smaller wrangler. now cymmins new isb 4 cylinder with that is anticipated in the nissan frontier would be agood option for a next gen wrangler. however ford is proving tune ability with the ecoboost similar to diesels. so gas or diesel choose your poison.

The 3.8L ISF will fit as well and it could easily be tuned up to the same levels as the older B-Series 3.9L engines can. Plus, it comes with the new Holsten Variable Geometry turbo which has some cool potential for tuning.

I've never seen a Cummins N-Series block in the 855cid range weighing in more than 2800lbs. What sort of Cummins are you talking about the larger KT16 or KT19 series engines? Now DD's were always far heavier. However, the Cummins of 3.8 to 3.9L sizes tend to be less than 1500lbs fully loaded and if you tune one to 700hp with 1000ft-lbs of torque at the rear wheels the added weight isn't much of an issue for the most part.

[KaiserBill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAj5iV28e4E

Shouldn't you have used this video to prove your point?

[KaiserBill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HzYU0A5Xys

This is at the rear wheels 434hp and 771ft-lbs... Imagine that in your Jeep and this a very mild tune. You could easily turn it up to 800hp at the rear wheels. But let's say you keep the engine at about 440-460hp at the rear wheels that is about 100 to 115hp more hp and if the torque is 790ft-lbs to 820ft-lbs is like 300-400ft-lbs extra torque. So clearly this type of engine conversion would be awesome both on the road and on the trail.

[UselessPickles]

You make it sound like it's as simple as adjusting some screws and suddenly you have a 400+, or even 800+ hp 4BT.

I did some browsing around on a couple 4BT forums, and the common relatively easy, affordable mods get you into the low 200 hp range without opening up the engine. Beyond that seems to start requiring serious engine mods (pistons, rods, machining heads, valve springs, aftermarket studs, crankcase bracing, bigger turbo, twin sequential turbos, etc., etc.).

I've also noticed that the diesels with huge power at the drag strip need to brake-boost for about 5-10 seconds to pre-spool the turbo before fully staging to begin the race. They do the same thing on the dyno too. That leads me to believe that there would be some serious turbo lag during daily driving if you wanted to tap into that big power.

Yes, a 4BT can make some huge power. But it takes quite a bit of money/work, especially if you want good reliable power. The same can be said for many engines. There's nothing magically secret about diesel for getting more power.

The Pentastar could likely make some similarly huge power if it was modified to the extent of these huge power small diesels. The stock pentastar already makes quite a bit more power than a stock 4BT. Bolt-on forced induction puts the Pentastar into the power range that the 4BT requires being rebuilt internally to support.

What the huge power modded diesel gives you though is insane low rpm torque. I know some Jeep people think low rpm torque is all the rage, but I'm pretty sure it would be safe to say that 800+ ft-lbs that requires loading up the engine to spool up the turbo to get there... would just be absolute complete overkill for off road driving in a Wrangler. That kind of torque is what you use for hauling *very* heavy loads. I know it's hard for you to remember, but this is a Wrangler forum. Wrangler's don't weigh as much as your deuce, so they don't need ridiculous amounts of low-end torque just to move around acceptably.

Final point: if the 4BT is so easy to turn up to 600, 700, 800+ hp as a reliable and good daily driver, and would be amazing in a Wrangler, then why isn't Bruiser doing it? Why does Bruiser only talk about being able to "turn it all the way up" to the 250-300 hp range? Maybe you need to call up Bruiser and let them in on your secrets to more power!

[KaiserBill]

You make it sound like it's as simple as adjusting some screws and suddenly you have a 400+, or even 800+ hp 4BT.

I did some browsing around on a couple 4BT forums, and the common relatively easy, affordable mods get you into the low 200 hp range without opening up the engine. Beyond that seems to start requiring serious engine mods (pistons, rods, machining heads, valve springs, aftermarket studs, crankcase bracing, bigger turbo, twin sequential turbos, etc., etc.).

I've also noticed that the diesels with huge power at the drag strip need to brake-boost for about 5-10 seconds to pre-spool the turbo before fully staging to begin the race. They do the same thing on the dyno too. That leads me to believe that there would be some serious turbo lag during daily driving if you wanted to tap into that big power.

Yes, a 4BT can make some huge power. But it takes quite a bit of money/work, especially if you want good reliable power. The same can be said for many engines. There's nothing magically secret about diesel for getting more power.

The Pentastar could likely make some similarly huge power if it was modified to the extent of these huge power small diesels. The stock pentastar already makes quite a bit more power than a stock 4BT. Bolt-on forced induction puts the Pentastar into the power range that the 4BT requires being rebuilt internally to support.

What the huge power modded diesel gives you though is insane low rpm torque. I know some Jeep people think low rpm torque is all the rage, but I'm pretty sure it would be safe to say that 800+ ft-lbs that requires loading up the engine to spool up the turbo to get there... would just be absolute complete overkill for off road driving in a Wrangler. That kind of torque is what you use for hauling *very* heavy loads. I know it's hard for you to remember, but this is a Wrangler forum. Wrangler's don't weigh as much as your deuce, so they don't need ridiculous amounts of low-end torque just to move around acceptably.

Final point: if the 4BT is so easy to turn up to 600, 700, 800+ hp as a reliable and good daily driver, and would be amazing in a Wrangler, then why isn't Bruiser doing it? Why does Bruiser only talk about being able to "turn it all the way up" to the 250-300 hp range? Maybe you need to call up Bruiser and let them in on your secrets to more power!

Simple is relative. You don't make 800hp or even 600hp at the crank shaft without some internal modifications:

1) Reduce Compression ratio from I believe it is 17:1 possibly 18:1 to 13-14.5:1 ratio (it will be a little harder to start, but still doable.). New pistons about $1000.00 maybe less depending type used.

2) Blue Print and Port The Engine That has to be done. Depending on how well built your engine is from the factory will determine how much this will set you back but it should be under $3K if you can do most of the work yourself.

3) Fuel injector pump have it rebuilt so you can get at least 800PSI to the injectors they will do the rest of the work for you. You want high volume and high pressure. So you need to have your injectors blue printed-- depending on the number and specs you have probably set you back with the injector pump another $2000-$2500

4) Turbos-- You start off with the first stage using the stock 4BT turbo then you put on either a Cummins 8.3 turbo or maybe one from L10 enigne either one will probably be more than enough to get you to the magic boost number of 200+ PSI!!!! Used pull out about $500-$1000-- rebuild kit runs about $250 to $500 depending on requirements.

5) Intercooler-- Probably air to air you can get one for about $800- $1000.

6) Water-Methanol System about $950.00

7) Wrap and insult the exhausts and turbos for each stage as well as the intakes. $500.00


How do you make the power: Compound (Two Stage) Turbo Charging. You use the smaller 4BT stock unit to as the primary turbo with a by pass value that is boost operated-- it reaches say 24PSI Manifold pressure bam it closes and spools up the bigger C8.3 unit or L10 Unit that then pushes up to the 60-200psi manifold pressure zone.
Again the price of the final product all depends on your ability to find good prices on things and perform a majority of the work yourself. Otherwise the price goes way up. But, to me this is easy.



http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/150/2004/17585521/turbolader-aufbau-535d-8099.JPG

This how Borg-Warner does it. A home-built setup will have more tubing and so on but it will work out the same way. Massive HP!!!!

Why doesn't Bruiser do it? Simple reliability always suffers with massive hp an torque. They want customers that want novelty but aren't exactly people who fix things on their own. So they keep the HP low and the Torque lower and this makes for greater reliability in all aspects of the vehicle.

[UselessPickles]

Thanks. I think you've just proven my point. And that's all on top of a $21k conversion. And there's a lot of assumptions of "do all the work yourself" (bolt-on kits are one thing, removing and rebuilding an engine is on a whole different level of skills/tools necessary), and assumptions that you actually know what the hell you're doing with matching all the right components and settings up to support the big power (there isn't a simple complete kit for this). More realistically, you're going to need to work with a performance shop that has experience in modding the 4BT, and prices for various portions of the process will skyrocket. And in the end, reliability is a concern.

For about the same amount of $$$, you could do a 6.1 or 6.4 hemi conversion (pay someone else to do it, that is), add a bolt-on supercharger *kit* from a reputable manufacturer, no engine mods necessary, be in the same ballpark of power output, and have an engine that can be diagnosed/serviced by any Chrysler dealer. Plus the Hemi sounds much better. The 4BT sounds like a school bus or garbage truck. Not impressive :-p

[KaiserBill]

Thanks. I think you've just proven my point. And that's all on top of a $21k conversion. And there's a lot of assumptions of "do all the work yourself" (bolt-on kits are one thing, removing and rebuilding an engine is on a whole different level of skills/tools necessary), and assumptions that you actually know what the hell your doing with matching all the right components and settings up to support the big power (there isn't a simple complete kit for this). More realistically, you're going to need to work with a performance shop that has experience in modding the 4BT, and prices for various portions of the process will skyrocket. And in the end, reliability is a concern.

For about the same amount of $$$, you could do a 6.1 or 6.4 hemi conversion (pay someone else to do it, that is), add a bolt-on supercharger *kit* from a reputable manufacturer, no engine mods necessary, be in the same ballpark of power output, and have an engine that can be diagnosed/serviced by any Chrysler dealer. Plus the Hemi sounds much better. The 4BT sounds like a school bus or garbage truck. Not impressive :-p

I said it was simple-- I didn't say it was a bolt on kit- i.e. idiot proof... And yes it does require more skills and understanding of the engines than bolting on a turbo kit. However, the rewards are so much greater to he who knows the secrets of the dieselly goodness!!!! As for reliability anytime you add a turbo or change the the chip-set in engine you reduce potential reliability. When you put the Prodigy kit on your Jeep reliability was compromised. This would be potentially more likely to have a failure. But, odds are a 4BT operating under its normal rpm with about 80PSI of manifold pressure would have a nice long life.

Myself, I would put a 4-53T Detroit Diesel in the Jeep with Compound turbo unit and I'd tweak the RPM to 2800-- which would add a little more complexity and then I would throw out the stock transmission and put in a Eaton Fuller 6spd model (maybe even an older Spicer 5+4 unit if I could it under it) and put in a heavy duty divorced Transfer Case and swap the axles out for U1400 series Portal Axles...


http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/brochures/453t_automotive.pdf


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhM0563drn8

My theoretical build would sound like Satan Himself Pulling Up To Your Doorstep For Your Soul! The best part is I could make it roast any 6.4Hemi build from AEV on the Dyno pretty much any engine that isn't 100k in price playing with pump gas would be a loser to this engine on the dyno. Not to mention being stroke the torque curve would be nearly flat. So, it would be epically overpowered on or off the road.

[Timmy]

Myself, I would put a 4-53T Detroit Diesel in the Jeep with Compound turbo unit and I'd tweak the RPM to 2800

Then why don't you put the 4-53T Diesel in your Jeep? Go for it, then write up a posting with step-by-step so we can all learn how to put one in a Jeep. Toss it on the dyno when you're done and share your results.

[UselessPickles]

The full secret is finally revealed! If you have all the skills, knowledge and tools necessary to completely rebuild/tune an engine for big power, then you can completely rebuild/tune an engine and get big power! No Way!

Really, the best-kept secret to more power is not Deisel, but the 2.0L Ecotec engine. People are getting up to 1500 hp out of them! Out of only a 2.0 inline 4 gasoline engine!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3csyUX8bcXE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHj-T7ohnuo


So there you have it. Obviously, the best path to more power is a 2.0 Ecotec engine, because it is proven that you can heavily modify them to make 1500 hp. Who's going to be the first to swap one into their Jeep and mod it for big power? It's easy, as long as you have the money, time, knowledge, skills and tools required to do a custom rebuild and tune of an engine!

[Timmy]

The full secret is finally revealed! If you have all the skills, knowledge and tools necessary to completely rebuild/tune an engine for big power, then you can completely rebuild/tune an engine and get big power! No Way!


Wait, wait... So you are saying if I have an infinite amount of money, combined with an infinite amount of time, combined with an infinite amount of resources, then I can completely rip out my V6 engine from my $35k Jeep and install KaiserBill's suggested diesel and get more power than I would ever need? Dang, sign me up, because I want my Jeep to cost more than my house so I can have this "Secrete To More Power." This is EXACTLY why I come to the JeepLab forums, to view the step-by-step instructions from KaiserBill on how to install a diesel engine in a Jeep!

[Timmy]

You know, I just go thinking... MAYBE as a dry-run I'll take the 6.7L diesel engine out of my SuperDuty and toss er' into the ol' Jeep, you know, just to get an idea of what 800ft/lbs. of torque will do in the Jeep before I toss in KaiserBill's much more powerful 4-53T Diesel. Do you think I'll need to upgrade my Dana 30 front end first? Shoot, I don't even know why I'm questioning that, I'll just take the axles off the SuperDuty, trim them down in width and move them over to the Jeep. Drive shaft as well. While I'm at it, might as well move the transfer case over as well. Hmm... Wonder if the transmission can handle 800ft/lbs. You know what, I'll grab the transmission out of the SuperDuty as well. Anything else I'm missing from the Ford I should bring over for this dry run? Soooo exciting, want me to post videos of the before and after 0-60 run?

[KaiserBill]

You know, I just go thinking... MAYBE as a dry-run I'll take the 6.7L diesel engine out of my SuperDuty and toss er' into the ol' Jeep, you know, just to get an idea of what 800ft/lbs. of torque will do in the Jeep before I toss in KaiserBill's much more powerful 4-53T Diesel. Do you think I'll need to upgrade my Dana 30 front end first? Shoot, I don't even know why I'm questioning that, I'll just take the axles off the SuperDuty, trim them down in width and move them over to the Jeep. Drive shaft as well. While I'm at it, might as well move the transfer case over as well. Hmm... Wonder if the transmission can handle 800ft/lbs. You know what, I'll grab the transmission out of the SuperDuty as well. Anything else I'm missing from the Ford I should bring over for this dry run? Soooo exciting, want me to post videos of the before and after 0-60 run?

I want to see the truck work out for you... I like where you going with this idea. I still think portal axles would be a better choice if you want to run 14.5R20's or larger tires-- I mean go big or go home-- right?

I really don't care that much for speed-- for all I care it could never reach 60mph ever!!!! It just doesn't matter to me. But you know I say post that 0-60 video-- I'm sure it will get a lot of attention. Myself I would be more interested in Vertical Step capability, Vertical and Side Slope Climbing Capability , Fording Capability , and payload and tow capacity off-road rather than speed. But, I'm odd that way.


If you want Speed Mazada is developing a Turbo Diesel for 24hr Racing that is a 4 cylinder 2.2L Diesel making a reliable 200+ HP per Liter. That might be the ticket for you 400+ hp at high speed and it a compact package to boot!!!! What is not to love?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z10vPdhjY8

They are using compound turbo charging to develop these numbers! So, I bet it is snappy on the 0-60 front... It packs more power per pound than your 6.7L option and it is nice and small so you know it isn't going to break the bank on front axle loading. Not to mention higher rpms means better 0-60 times and who knows what else? I bet it could be a little pocket rocket for the Jeep Home Tuner!

Myself, it really doesn't draw my attention like a good big displacement Diesel...


Oh the sweet sweet sound of a Detroit Diesel 2-stroke Enigne. Just makes me want to move right in to some small quite neighborhood in the Northwest Pacific Region and have some fun!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1XbZYJwsaA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ThH0OtRfMg

If only it would fit!!! I think me and my toys can only serve to increase property value...

[KaiserBill]

My company car is a Jeep Liberty-- It won't fit. I've thought about it.

[KaiserBill]

The full secret is finally revealed! If you have all the skills, knowledge and tools necessary to completely rebuild/tune an engine for big power, then you can completely rebuild/tune an engine and get big power! No Way!

Really, the best-kept secret to more power is not Deisel, but the 2.0L Ecotec engine. People are getting up to 1500 hp out of them! Out of only a 2.0 inline 4 gasoline engine!





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3csyUX8bcXE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHj-T7ohnuo


So there you have it. Obviously, the best path to more power is a 2.0 Ecotec engine, because it is proven that you can heavily modify them to make 1500 hp. Who's going to be the first to swap one into their Jeep and mod it for big power? It's easy, as long as you have the money, time, knowledge, skills and tools required to do a custom rebuild and tune of an engine!

There is one difference-- I can make 4-53T perform with serious power and still be around long after the 2.2 Ecotec motor needs to be totally rebuilt.

Well you have to have to specific skill sets for many things in life. That doesn't mean you cannot acquire them to finish a project. I just happen to have an obsession with diesel since I was very young so I've leaned all I can about it. Also it will be much harder to make a 2.0L Gas engine make 1500hp on Pump Gas-- it might not even be possible. You can however, make a 4BT or 6BT diesel make those numbers on pump 40 Centane Diesel. So, that is sort of a nice thing to have going for you if you want big hp numbers...

The funny thing is if you get a few books on modifying Diesel Engines and Diesel Engine theory you can do this at home.

[KaiserBill]

Wait, wait... So you are saying if I have an infinite amount of money, combined with an infinite amount of time, combined with an infinite amount of resources, then I can completely rip out my V6 engine from my $35k Jeep and install KaiserBill's suggested diesel and get more power than I would ever need? Dang, sign me up, because I want my Jeep to cost more than my house so I can have this "Secrete To More Power." This is EXACTLY why I come to the JeepLab forums, to view the step-by-step instructions from KaiserBill on how to install a diesel engine in a Jeep!

I can take a 5K TJ junker and do everything I said for less than 40k.

Hmmmm.... I'm thinking that I should post more about squeaky suspension lift kits! I mean those squeaks are just so damn technically minded.

[FLIPmeOVER]

I can take a 5K TJ junker and do everything I said for less than 40k.

It would be the worst investment in history. You'd find yourself in a straight jacket, and its right where you would belong.

You would really have to have deep pockets to not want to shoot yourself when you realize the financial land mine you stepped on.

[KaiserBill]

It would be the worst investment in history. You'd find yourself in a straight jacket, and its right where you would belong.

You would really have to have deep pockets to not want to shoot yourself when you realize the financial land mine you stepped on.

Is it any more absurd than buying a $30K plus new jeep and putting a $30K AEV 6.4 Hemi engine swap into it? I mean I wouldn't do it.... But, my point was simply that I have the technical ability to do so.

[KaiserBill]

Alright I lied the real secret to amazing power is this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuZC4Wr1LrE

I've found that once myself and my engines are under a program of Dianetics I get an easy 3500% gain in HP and torque at any RPM!!!!

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MIND-ENGINE OPENNESS PARADIGM!

[UselessPickles]

Is it any more absurd than buying a $30K plus new jeep and putting a $30K AEV 6.4 Hemi engine swap into it?

Actually, yes it is. The $30k AEV conversion is the cost of a complete "turnkey" package of a professional installation using a kit of OEM-quality components designed to work together flawlessly, designed/developed/tested by a trusted/respected company (who employs some ex-Chrysler engineers) that produces many of the same kit, provides warranty/support for their conversion kit, and essentially promises (their reputation is at risk) that it will be reliable for years to come.



I mean I wouldn't do it.... But, my point was simply that I have the technical ability to do so.

So you admit that the entire point of this thread was not at all to provide any practical information that is readily applicable to the Jeep Wrangler, but just to proclaim your love for diesel and show off your knowledge about how they can be heavily modified by engine building/tuning experts to produce massive power.

[Pznivy]

So you admit that the entire point of this thread was not at all to provide any practical information that is readily applicable to the Jeep Wrangler, but just to proclaim your love for diesel and show off your knowledge about how they can be heavily modified by engine building/tuning experts to produce massive power.

Everyone's got their own cup of tea. Who cares if the kaiser is a dieselphile? Buying a new car to rip the engine out to gain 150 hp (and 400lbs) is crazy. Just because society accepts it dosent make in any less crazy.

Kaiser's ramblings are no crazier. Jeep guys love hemi's so we accept it. He loves diesels, I accept that too. ALSO if AEV offered a duramax or cummins conversion, it would probably outsell the hemi. The problem is you cant change the type of gas your car uses in some states. (i think)

[KaiserBill]

Actually, yes it is. The $30k AEV conversion is the cost of a complete "turnkey" package of a professional installation using a kit of OEM-quality components designed to work together flawlessly, designed/developed/tested by a trusted/respected company (who employs some ex-Chrysler engineers) that produces many of the same kit, provides warranty/support for their conversion kit, and essentially promises (their reputation is at risk) that it will be reliable for years to come.




So you admit that the entire point of this thread was not at all to provide any practical information that is readily applicable to the Jeep Wrangler, but just to proclaim your love for diesel and show off your knowledge about how they can be heavily modified by engine building/tuning experts to produce massive power.

As they say-- Dude, What Are You Smoking??? You're statements have nothing to do with my statement. A guy said I was crazy for my plan. I was merely stating that any time you sink 30-40K in a vehicle it is lost cause for getting your money back. It doesn't matter how reliable it is supposedly from the aftermarket producer you still need to sell some on the fact that your Vehicle is bees knees and to be honest home kits usually don't inspire great after market sales. That was my point. If you're going to sink $30-$40K in a vehicle you might as well make it a MONSTER!

You're in love with drawing false conclusions aren't you? The fact is that no matter who builds it and who puts in it problems can arise. And the fact is the manufacturer will fight you tooth and nail on most issues-- especially ones they can reasonably pass of as end user failures!


Actually, the point of my thread was simply this if you want get massive power from a small displacement engine on pump fuels with great reliability-- DIESEL is the way to go. All of which is actually applicable to the Wrangler type vehicle. I prefer bigger diesels, but the principles are all the same and that is true. So, that is why, I wouldn't necessarily care to build a JK with a 3.9 4BT engine that makes 440-500hp at the rear wheels with 700-900ft-lbs of torque for a daily driver- it is possible. Any time you start pushing 100+ HP liter you run the risk of reliability issues. But, if you can only fit comfortable a 3.9L engine in the slot-- well take what you are given and work with it.


Could you make a kit like Brusiers or AEV that is OEM compatible with super-high HP and Torque ratings-- hell, yeah they do it all the time. I could in theory start the Saleen of Diesel Jeep Conversions. I wouldn't because I'm just not that interested in doing that.

[UselessPickles]

Just wanted to share the results of my improved derpity script. The beginning of your post especially turned out well :)


As hodor say-- Derpity, Derpity Are You Derp??? You're derp have duuurp to do derp my derpity. A guy derpity I was derpity for my derpity. I was derpity derpity derpy any derpy you duuurp 30-40K in a derp it is derpy duuurp for derp derpy derp duuurp. It doesn't derpy how derpy it is derpity derp the derpity duuurp you derpity need to derpy duuurp on the derpy derpity derp Derpity is derpy duuurp and to be derpity derpity derp duuurp don't derpy derp duuurp derpity derp. Derpity was my derpy. If you're duuurp to derpy $30-$40K in a derp you derpity as derpity derp it a DUUURP!

You're in derpity duuurp derpy derpy derpity aren't you? The derpy is derpy no duuurp who derpity it and who derpity in it duuurp can duuurp. And the derpy is the derp will derpy you duuurp and derp on derpy derpity-- derpy duuurp derp can derpy derpity of as end derpy derpy!


Derpy, the derpy of my duuurp was derp derp if you want get duuurp derpy duuurp a derpity duuurp duuurp on duuurp derpy derpy derp derpity-- DUUURP is the way to go. All of derp is duuurp derpy to the Wrangler duuurp duuurp. I derpy derpity derpity, but the derp are all the derp and derp is derpity. So, derpy is why, I wouldn't duuurp duuurp to derpy a JK derpity a 3.9 4BT derp derpity derpy 440-500hp at the derpity derp derp 700-900ft-lbs of derpity for a derp derpity- it is derpity. Any derpity you duuurp derpity 100+ HP duuurp you run the derpity of duuurp derpy. But, if you can derpity fit derp a 3.9L derpy in the derpy-- duuurp derpity hodor you are duuurp and derp derpity it.


Could you derpy a kit derp Derpy or AEV derp is OEM derpity derpity duuurp-derpy HP and Duuurp duuurp-- hodor, hodor derpity do it all the duuurp. I could in derp derpity the Derpity of Derp Jeep Duuurp. I wouldn't derp I'd derp not derp derpity in duuurp derp.

[KaiserBill]

Just wanted to share the results of my improved derpity script. The beginning of your post especially turned out well :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7rw8zvNv3Y

[KaiserBill]

The best part about a well designed diesel engine is that you cruise at about 50%. And I really well built diesel engine with a nice heavy construction will run on the pins all day long. Heavier is better in diesel design--because it lets you run it harder for longer periods of time. This is my one complaint with engines like the Duramax or Powerstroke-- they are too light in my opinion to really get the sort of reliability you want in a highly tuned engine. My self I would stick to the Cummins engines the ones built for commercial applications mostly. Yes, they are heavier, but a little extra weight is a bonus in reliability. That is why I like the old 2-stroke Detroit Diesels so much pound for pound they are at least 1.25 to almost 2 times as heavy as say a Cat or Cummins of the same displacement. Then you have the bonus that every other stroke is a power stroke. So that is a plus. But for a Jeep application-- I think the medium duty 4BT or 6BT (maybe even the new ISB 6.7) would be really awesome to play with. Especially if you set it up for Biodiesel.

The Greener Meaner Bio-Diesel Bandit Jeep...

[Snarf77]

So what do we actually know about the 2016 Wrangler diesel powerplant? Can it be made to have significantly moar power?

[KaiserBill]

The question of how much more power you can get from it is a good question. I do know this they aren't putting it into the Wrangler yet. As of now it is only available in the Grand Cherokee. I know it is a V6 3.0 liter design with about 240hp and 420ft-lbs of torque. Now, as to how much power, you can tweak out of it with after market modifications is going to depend on several factors: the construction of the block and heads, the standard compression ratio, the common rail fuel injection system and the type of engine management programs they are using.

While, the new computerized systems are great for many things they make turning up power by the home turner more complicated. But, you could probably get safely 90-105hp per liter before really having to get into the internal components of the engine. That is just a guess, but I bet it is pretty close to the safe limits of this engine. It is already running at about 80hp per liter. The biggest limiting factor in this type of engine is going to be the strength of the block and heads.

They are using a variable geometry turbo unit- I'm guessing one. I would have used twin turbos. However, if Garrett ever figures out how to make their single unit Sequential Turbo charger work this might be the perfect application for it.