Vote for your supercharger of choice

[doc5339]

I am looking hard at the Edelbrock E-Force, Sprintex, and RIPP. I like the Roots/Screw Type for the on-tap power (at least theoretically). I am hoping you guys can guide me in the right direction for the best overall balance of usable power throughout the rev range, reliability/durability, and fuel efficiency.

I have a mostly stock (intend to stay that way) 2013 JKU Rubicon Manual Trans, 4.10 Rear, 31.6" tall tires (may go to 33" some day, but no larger), 99% daily driver. Would do a Bruiser Cummins ISF or Motech 5.3 Vortec if I could afford it.

[HahaJK]

I am looking hard at the Edelbrock E-Force, Sprintex, and RIPP. I like the Roots/Screw Type for the on-tap power (at least theoretically). I am hoping you guys can guide me in the right direction for the best overall balance of usable power throughout the rev range, reliability/durability, and fuel efficiency.

I have a mostly stock (intend to stay that way) 2013 JKU Rubicon Manual Trans, 4.10 Rear, 31.6" tall tires (may go to 33" some day, but no larger), 99% daily driver. Would do a Bruiser Cummins ISF or Motech 5.3 Vortec if I could afford it.

Whats your reason for supercharging, but staying stock otherwise? They have decent power on tap already for those who intent to daily drive it.

[rgeorge33]

The fact that you have a manual trans makes things much easier. I didn't like the behavior of the auto and the lift to shift issues. I think you'll have good luck with any of them. However, the Sprintex made great power and ran smoothly. If you are interested in sprintex, let me know. I'm going to sell of the one I pulled from my '14 when I went with the MoTech LS3. Good luck whichever you choose.

[doc5339]

Why... Because

I simply like the torque/power; improved power-to-weight ratio. I like power and performance the way most jeepers like big wheels, lift kits, and heavy bumpers.

I understand that my JKUR is a brick, not a sports car. "Decent power on tap" is a subjective statement. The 3.6 Pentastar is not quite "decent" from my perspective.

Q: How much power do you have?
A: More than I'll ever need, but not nearly enough.

I want to do this for the same reason I had a 1976 FJ40 with 350ci Small Block Chevy V-8; it's a helluva lot more fun to drive.

[doc5339]

The fact that you have a manual trans makes things much easier. I didn't like the behavior of the auto and the lift to shift issues. I think you'll have good luck with any of them. However, the Sprintex made great power and ran smoothly. If you are interested in sprintex, let me know. I'm going to sell of the one I pulled from my '14 when I went with the MoTech LS3. Good luck whichever you choose.

Thanks, that is good to hear regarding the Sprintex + Manual Trans. I sent you a PM about the Sprintex.

[doc5339]

Only 3 jeepers with superchargers? I posted another poll over on JK-Forum, and RIPP is killing it.

[doc5339]

Here is what I have observed (keep in my mind that i have a manual transmission, therefore I ignore auto trans woes) by reading through threads, Internet searches, and YouTube:

Magnuson (Roots-type) uses Eaton 1320 TVS Rotors, does not allow for direct access to the oil filter, and it has an electric pump (water may damage it) down low near the axle. Well-documented install and proven results on the JK and other makes/models. Being a Roots-type, the Magnuson is still susceptible to heat soak.

Sprintex (Lysholm "Screw"-type) uses S5-335 Screw Compressor, also requires the air tube be removed to access the oil filter, however, on a positive note, it uses nylon rather than metal between the engine and the actual supercharger, which supposedly mitigates heat-soak. Sprintex has a 30 year history building superchargers for many makes/models, and I won't hold the fact their Australian against them.

RIPP (Centrifugal) requires trimming off the sides of the grill and grinding of the manifold, and seems more pervious to water intrusion. The RIPP should not have the potential heat soak issues of the Roots-type SCs. Being a centrifugal (Vortech) supercharger, its power delivery is exponential and therefore not immediate. Dyno numbers are great as are many owner reviews, however, I lean toward the instant and constant power delivery of the Roots-type blowers.

Edelbrock E-Force (Roots-type) uses Eaton 1320 Rotors appears to eliminate the oil filter access issue that the Magnuson and Sprintex have, though it is probably still susceptible to heat-soak. I am probably just being partial to it because it looks good installed and says "Made in U.S.A." on it. I am still waiting to hear about installation results from the other forum. It is about 8-10 actual hours of installation according to the guy installing it who has been doing 2-3 hours at a time.

[JeepLab]

your getting love for the RIPP unit on the other forums because there are more RIPPs on the road than anything else.

That SC was the first out, and had a good rep from the 3.8. Also, the RIPP guys are at EVERY event.

Makes big power, little if any heat soak. The cutting required is not a big deal.

[doc5339]

your getting love for the RIPP unit on the other forums because there are more RIPPs on the road than anything else.

That SC was the first out, and had a good rep from the 3.8. Also, the RIPP guys are at EVERY event.

Makes big power, little if any heat soak. The cutting required is not a big deal.

Kinda figured that about RIPP, and I still am considering it. I was just hoping for some more arguments and controversy.

I have been studying the Sprintex, which I believe is the only Twin-Screw of for the JK. I like that they make an effort to isolate heat soak by using glass-impregnated nylon as a sort of a thermal-break, as well as the fact that it a compressor, not just a pump.

[doc5339]

My poll on JK-Forum now has Edelbrock almost neck-and-neck with RIPP. This is not very scientific, but it does give me an idea what Jeepers seem to like.

I

[gbaumann]

My poll on JK-Forum now has Edelbrock almost neck-and-neck with RIPP. This is not very scientific, but it does give me an idea what Jeepers seem to like.

That's interesting because I've never seen an Edelbrock E-Force on a JK. I wonder why it's getting votes? Is there an installed base of E-Force units out there? I'd love to see a real world example. I installed a MAG unit myself (and uninstalled it along with the v-6). That said, I read the installation instructions for the E-Force unit and can say that if it goes in per the instructions and the heat exchanger and bracketry are as shown in their literature that it's much improved over the MAG unit. It's like Edelbrock saw what MAG did and leveraged the R&D to come out with a second generation Eaton TVS1320 based supercharger. That's just my opinion.

In the end I believe results rest more with calibration than hardware. All the best parts can be rendered useless if you can't "tune" the engine to use them.

[Pznivy]

id like to see edelbrock go head to head with ripp. Are we going to see an edelbrock install?

[doc5339]

That's interesting because I've never seen an Edelbrock E-Force on a JK. I wonder why it's getting votes? Is there an installed base of E-Force units out there? I'd love to see a real world example. I installed a MAG unit myself (and uninstalled it along with the v-6). That said, I read the installation instructions for the E-Force unit and can say that if it goes in per the instructions and the heat exchanger and bracketry are as shown in their literature that it's much improved over the MAG unit. It's like Edelbrock saw what MAG did and leveraged the R&D to come out with a second generation Eaton TVS1320 based supercharger. That's just my opinion.

In the end I believe results rest more with calibration than hardware. All the best parts can be rendered useless if you can't "tune" the engine to use them.

Honestly, I am not finding anyone driving around with an Edelbrock E-Force? That said, 40% of votes were for Edelbrock, 50% for RIPP, and I believe 10% for Magnuson last time I looked over on JK-Forum.com. Most people were probably voting on what they "would" have more than what they have.

Hoop skier on that same forum is the only person that I have found who actually purchased on (he also voted), and his is still installing the E-Force as far as I know.

[UselessPickles]

Keep in mind that most people that voice an opinion on superchargers/turbos on forums have zero experience with any of the options. Most of those that do have any experience with any of the options only have experience with one of the options. So the poll results do not accurately reflect what people would prefer if they were given the opportunity to actually compare the options. The poll results more accurately reflect what people predict would be their preference based on their own assumptions, which are often based on reading other forum posts about other people's assumptions - from other people that have zero experience with any of the options.

My thoughts...

Especially considering that yours is 99% daily driver, there's no point in trying to split hairs on which is more reliable, which will suffer from heat soak more, which one will produce more under-hood heat, which one would be easier to bypass and limp home if it were to fail (a ridiculous attribute to seriously impact your decision, IMO), etc. These are all things where one will technically/theoretically be "better" than others, but the amount of difference between them is unlikely to be noticeable.

If fuel economy is a priority, then I think you are doing this for the wrong reasons. This is also a topic that will be nearly impossible to get any useful data about. Fuel economy depends so much on driving style/habits. The difference in power/driveability from adding forced induction may cause you to change your driving style/habits in a way that impacts fuel economy more than the forced induction itself did. Any reports you see of fuel economy are no more than anecdotal evidence, and you don't know what other factors were involved. No one has done any controlled tests to compare fuel economy between stock and any of the supercharger kits.

I think the first step is to figure out what style of power delivery you would prefer. This is more critical with the manual transmission because it requires thought and effort to shift gears. Would you prefer to be able to drive more lazily with less downshifting and get the feeling of big power while driving "normally" in the lower rpms, or would you prefer to have more power actually available for accelerating onto freeways and passing at the expense of requiring more downshifting to tap into that power? RIPP will generally be more powerful and able to accelerate more quickly if you get into the higher RPMs, but the other superchargers may "feel" more powerful than RIPP when driving around more normally at lower RPMs.

Or maybe you just have a certain subjective fascination with a certain style of supercharger based on looks and sound? If you just really like the idea of the "traditional" notion of a supercharger mounted on top of the engine, then that rules out the RIPP. Sometimes choosing what you subjectively like better and makes you happy can be more important that choosing what would objectively.

The easiest comparison to make in power delivery is RIPP vs Magnuson, because JeepLab has put both on the same dyno. You can reasonably assume that the Edelbrock will be similar to the Magnuson, since it uses the same supercharger unit at its core. But no one has produced any dyno results for the Sprintex that can be compared. I've only seen Sprintex's own dyno chart, and their stock torque curve doesn't look like the stock torque curve from any other dyno results. There must be some difference in the dynos used.

[Rexx19]

x2 on pickles "people don't actually have the power mods" point.

so often, people are just regurgitating what they've read from others who also may not have actually owned the mods. Thats what drew me to this site. (JL) this was the only place people were talking about the mods head to head with actual driving experience.

Get sprintex and edelbrock JL!

[doc5339]

Thank Pickles! I think what got me on the forced induction kick was: a. Wanting more usable power and b. Watching the "War Wagon" in Mad Max Fury Road with its two in-line supercharged engines.

I agree totally with your assessment of my polls and their unscientific/subjective results.

I definitely do not want a supercharger for better fuel economy, though I do want a supercharger that has lower parasitic losses to the crankshaft.

I am pretty close now, and am considering two used superchargers that may be available from forum members here. I was hoping to hear back about that one Edelbrock install and testing before "pulling the trigger."

I like the look of the traditional Roots and Lysholm blowers, but probably the sound of the centrifugal better (coming from turbo diesels).

I like the idea of down-shifting, as well as less heat soak with the RIPP. Not having immediate power on tap is my only issue other than major stuff like trimming/grinding and higher possibility of water intrusion.

The torture I have been putting 4 Jeep forums through will soon be over. I greatly appreciate all of the advice, first-hand perspectives, and empiricism offered by you and JeepLab members.

[JeepLab]

Do you have a manual trans? If so, dont be concerned about low end with ripp's SC. You will have gobs of low end.

Probably the same with the auto, I just havent owned the auto to speak on it.

[doc5339]

I do have a manual trans, RIPP is making sense.

[doc5339]

Soooooooo close now! Between the RIPP and Sprintex. If I go the Sprintex route, I will post as much data as possible.

[Yoinkers]

Amazing that sprintex would be able to come up with as much support as ripp. no one has them, and the one guy that did, took it off. LOL. Thats not a good review.

[doc5339]

Amazing that sprintex would be able to come up with as much support as ripp. no one has them, and the one guy that did, took it off. LOL. Thats not a good review.

...and that is why I just decided on going with RIPP!

It was not just your post, or the guy who decided to do an LS3 because he could not get his to work. It was all of the pages I just read about the lack of support that guys with 3.8 liter JKs griped about, along with only 2 owners saying they were happy.

I wish I could put some faith in the Sprintex, but there is not much data out there from owners on the net, and that is possibly due to 3.8 JK guys being disenfranchised by the issues and lack of support the faced years ago. The modern 3.6 JK Sprintex might be awesome for my manual JKUR, but I will never know because other than one YouTube video of a 5.3 LS JKU getting beat in a drag race by an otherwise comparably equipped Sprintex SC 3.6 JKU, no one is saying how great they are except Sprintex.

RIPP may have the advantage of better market penetration and very good marketing, but they are doing something else right to get the brand loyalty from their customers. This is a matter of perspective since all of my research is internet based, however, that internet presence is critical not only to selling a product, but refining and servicing it as well.

Here is my totally unscientific perspective/reasoning for all forced induction options I could find and how I came to a conclusion:

Edelbrock E-Force: heat-soak issues by design, similar to Magnuson, possibly improved, but too new and almost no owner data out there (unknown quantity other than Eaton rotors and solid Edelbrock reputation)

Magnuson: heat-soak, solid base of owners who seem pleased overall, could have been engineered better: to allow oil change, electric pump down low near axle could be an issue regarding water/mud (known quantity)

ProCharger: similar to RIPP, but with almost zero data available even from the company (unknown quantity)

Sprintex: looks great on paper, but still seems extremely susceptible to heat-soak, and if there are happy owners of this product for 3.6, I can't find them; probably because of Sprintex issues with 3.8 SC (understand RIPP went through issues as well, however, it is how these issues were dealt with that matters)

Prodigy Turbo: maybe the best price for the power, likely most efficient system because it is turbo, susceptible to water intrusion, heat is an issue for any turbo system (can require multiple add-ons, turbo timer, etc), fastest 0-60, but not the best for me to install or purchase (higher upfront cost)

RIPP: not ideal power delivery for me, but great peak power, susceptible to water, least susceptible to heat-soak, efficient power delivery, 2nd best 0-60 time, everyone loves them, bugs appear to be worked out (known quantity Vortech V3)

[gbaumann]

Good summary! Now, I don't mean to be un-PC, really. Turbo, centrifugal, roots screw - in the end you could hire a whore to blow the motor. If the PCM is calibrated optimally you'll have a happy ending. If not, you're going to be frustrated (puns intended). All of the available options will get you down the road. All of them can get you over the rocks, up the hills and through the mud with more power than you had before. Just make sure whatever you choose that the manufacturer can support your installation and MORE IMPORTANTLY with calibration. For that reason I am happy to hear you're going with RIPP. We saw how they supported JL and Black Betty.

I can think of more than a few things I wish I had put your kind of thought and consideration into.

[UselessPickles]

heat is an issue for any turbo system (can require multiple add-ons, turbo timer, etc)

The only heat-related issue I have experienced with the turbo was excessive intake temps with the stage 1 kit (no intercooler) after back-to-back repeated attempts to race up a steep sand dune on a hot, sunny summer day. Not unreasonable, if you ask me. With the intercooler installed, I'm not worried about heat at all (of course, I'll still give it a break to cool down a bit after lots of hard driving on the sand dunes). I have monitored coolant temps and intake temps under various conditions and have not seen any evidence of heat being an issue to be concerned about.

A turbo timer isn't necessary if you're smart. Don't park it immediately after doing some full throttle high boost runs. If you just drive sanely when you get near your destination, everything will cool down quicker than idling stationary at your destination. If you do, for some reason, park soon after using all the boost, just let it idle for a minute or so (until radiator fan stops running on high speed).

BTW - turbo timer doesn't work so well on a manual transmission if you like to park in gear :)



RIPP: ... (known quantity Vortech V3)

One thing to be aware of with the Vortech supercharger is that starting it up at low temperatures can damage it, and is not covered under warranty.



In order to achieve the low noise level of Vortech
superchargers, Vortech specifies manufacturing
procedures that call for minimal internal clearance.
These precise tolerances however are not
conducive to temperatures below 25° F. Therefore,
storing the vehicle in a heated garage and/or
employing the use of an engine block
heater/aftermarket engine blanket is required when
the vehicle is subjected to a "cold startup" in
ambient temperatures below 25° F. Failure to
comply with this may result in immediate
supercharger failure and invalidate the
supercharger warranty.


Source: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/94.pdf

Warranty document also mentions that cold starts void the warranty: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/92.pdf

[doc5339]

Points taken gentlemen. Thank you for your input and advice!

[doc5339]

The only heat-related issue I have experienced with the turbo was excessive intake temps with the stage 1 kit (no intercooler) after back-to-back repeated attempts to race up a steep sand dune on a hot, sunny summer day. Not unreasonable, if you ask me. With the intercooler installed, I'm not worried about heat at all (of course, I'll still give it a break to cool down a bit after lots of hard driving on the sand dunes). I have monitored coolant temps and intake temps under various conditions and have not seen any evidence of heat being an issue to be concerned about.

A turbo timer isn't necessary if you're smart. Don't park it immediately after doing some full throttle high boost runs. If you just drive sanely when you get near your destination, everything will cool down quicker than idling stationary at your destination. If you do, for some reason, park soon after using all the boost, just let it idle for a minute or so (until radiator fan stops running on high speed).

BTW - turbo timer doesn't work so well on a manual transmission if you like to park in gear :)




One thing to be aware of with the Vortech supercharger is that starting it up at low temperatures can damage it, and is not covered under warranty.



Source: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/94.pdf

Warranty document also mentions that cold starts void the warranty: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/92.pdf

Damn UselessPickles...

Just when I thought I was out, you bring me back in! Just messing with you, I GREATLY appreciate your very thorough analytical perspective.

I really like the Prodigy Stage II, but to trick it out is very expensive and the installation looks like a bitch. I will take another hard look at Prodigy before I pull the trigger. I really love turbos and have extensive ownership experience with turbo diesels; all OEM setups, which makes me less comfortable with a retrofit. Your experiences with the early Prodigy minor durability issues my have stuck in my craw as well.

[doc5339]

Damn UselessPickles...

Just when I thought I was out, you bring me back in! Just messing with you, I GREATLY appreciate your very thorough analytical perspective.

I really like the Prodigy Stage II, but to trick it out is very expensive and the installation looks like a bitch. I will take another hard look at Prodigy before I pull the trigger. I really love turbos and have extensive ownership experience with turbo diesels; all OEM setups, which makes me less comfortable with a retrofit. Your experiences with the early Prodigy minor durability issues my have stuck in my craw as well.

OK, this is more money than I planned on spending but it is about as badass as it can get:

3.6 02 120x120 Cart PRO-2002 2012-2014 Jeep Wrangler Stage 2 Intercooled Jeep Turbo Kit
Precision Turbo (+$295) Turbo Housing: Standard Garrett/Precision
Turbo Bearing: Ceramic Ball Bearing (+$495)
$7,489.00

Catch Can mounted on bracket v2 120x120 Cart Oil Catch Can Kit for 2012-2015 Prodigy Turbo Kits $389.00

Prodigy T4 titanium turbo heat shield pro 1080 120x120 Cart PRO-1080 Prodigy T4 Titanium Turbo Heat Shield $179.00

TOTAL $8,057.00

Questions for you Pickles:
-Do you think that my OEM Clutch, Manual Gearbox, and 4.10 Rear can handle the Prodigy Stage II?
-Am I missing anything in my cart?
-I believe that I read somewhere the need for a 2" lift with the Prodigy Turbo setup; is that really necessary?

[UselessPickles]

Oh, crap. What have I done? I thought you had ruled out the turbo early on because you wanted the more immediate low rpm throttle response of a supercharger.


I'm pretty sure the oil catch can kit is included with the turbo kit now, so you don't have to purchase it separately.

I personally don't think the ball bearing turbo is necessary or worth the extra money. The main reason Prodigy added that option was for people in very hot climates (middle east area) that wanted a water-cooled turbo (ball bearing is water-cooled, journal bearing is oil-cooled). Here's a summary of the differences between ball bearing and journal bearing that I've found in my searching:

* No difference in boost curve. Both are equally capable of reaching the same boost at any given engine speed.

* Ball bearing has slightly less lag (specifically, how quickly it spools up to full boost potential when you stomp on the gas pedal). Garrett claims 15% quicker spooling. My data logs show that it takes my Precision turbo about 0.3s to reach full boost when stomping on the gas around 3500 rpm. A 15% improvement would make that 0.255s. This is most likely imperceptible for a street driver. It may have measurable improvements to lap times at a track. The difference would be more noticeable at lower RPMs where the turbo spools more slowly, so it may possibly have a noticeable improvement for daily driving. If you have money to burn and demand the absolute best, then go for it.

* Ball bearing has much tighter tolerances. A very tiny particle in the oil supply could damage the bearings, whereas it would pass through a journal bearing without any problems. Journal bearings are generally considered more durable.

* Journal bearings are more easily/inexpensively rebuilt.

* With properly routed coolant lines, a water-cooled turbo will cause coolant to continue circulating even after the engine is shut off, reducing the need to let the turbo cool down when parking soon after some "spirited" driving.


Definitely pay for the Precision turbo upgrade. The Precision gives better driveability in "normal" lower rpm part throttle daily driving.


Definitely get the turbo blanket (heat shield). If you don't like the Titanium color, ask if they can get it in any other colors. They don't have any other colors listed for sale, but I was able to get a black turbo blanket. It's possible that this was a one-time special thing they did early on when sampling turbo blankets from different suppliers, but it doesn't hurt to ask.


I have heard of 3 drivetrain failures with a turbo kit so far (including the kit for the 3.8 engine). Two happened at a drag strip with abusive hard launching. One was a clutch, the other was broken axle shaft. The 3rd was a member on this forum that twisted a front driveshaft while driving very hard out in the desert sand dunes in the middle east (Oman, IIRC). If you abuse it enough, you can probably cause similar failures with a stock engine. I don't do any hard launches or other abusive stuff, so I'm not concerned. My entire drivetrain is still stock. I use plenty of full throttle, fast shifts, breaking the tires loose shifting into 2nd gear, etc, but I'm careful to avoid unnecessarily shocking the drivetrain. I never rev the engine up and dump the clutch to launch or when shifting gears, and I fully engage the clutch before applying full throttle.

Another insight into how much the OEM manual transmission can handle: The "stage 3" 12 psi kit for the 3.8 engine is only available for the manual transmission. The 4-speed auto trans couldn't handle the extra torque. That kit produces just over 400 ft-lbs torque at the wheels, similar to recent results for the 3.6 Stage 2 kit with Precision turbo and boost controller set to ~9 psi.

If you really want to beef up the drivetrain, there are higher performance clutches available, and you could upgrade to chromoly axles. I don't think it's necessary unless you want to do some abusive drag racing. Then again, one of this is really specific to the turbo. It applies to any major performance mod.



Yes, a 2" lift is necessary with the turbo kit to guarantee no contact between the front driveshaft and one of the exhaust pipes at full compression. More specifically, it requires 2" bump-stop extensions. Any of the 2" spacer lift leveling (2" front, 1" rear) kits on the market should take care of this. I went for the AEV 2" lift, partly just because they are local to me and I could pick it up the next day rather than wait for shipping. More details here: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install&p=1824&viewfull=1#post1824



To get full potential out of the stage 2 kit with the Precision turbo, you'll need to add a boost controller. But I recommend waiting on the boost controller. That's something that can be easily added later. You won't really save any effort/money by including the boost controller from the start. Get everything installed without a boost controller, confirm that everything is running properly without any leaks, enjoy it, get used to the power, take some time to research boost controllers, etc. Starting off with a boost controller installed right away introduces just one more layer of potential confusion if there is a problem with the install. Then some day later, you'll enjoy another relatively small and inexpensive project that gives you a very noticeable improvement.

[doc5339]

Thanks again Pickles! I was pretty close to spending the extra money, however, the 2" lift puts the nix on it for me.

I mainly asked if they OEM drivetrain can handle the Stage II because I am not prepared to mess with drivetrain upgrades maybe other than a stronger clutch.

I would not mind spending over $8k just for the Stage II, but then there is the 2" lift, boost controller, it seems to keep going. I would still say that the Progidy Turbo is top dog, possibly even compared to the various NA engine swap options and even the turbo diesels (for power).

RIPP will work for me, mainly because I can unbolt it and sell it in the unlikely event I want to sell it or do something else.

I like the idea of staying mostly stock because I do drive 99% on the road, and I want to mitigate rollover, rather than to entice one. I understand that making it go faster does not exactly help that argument. My next mod might be brakes, maybe bumper some day.

[UselessPickles]

but then there is the 2" lift, boost controller, it seems to keep going.

If you don't take the Jeep off-road, you could probably get by with a simple leveling kit (0.75"-1.0" spacers in the front only). That's what Prodigy uses (or used at one point) on their test vehicle and never had any clearance issues with street driving. The 2" will absolutely guarantee that there will never be any clearance issue, even at full compression after accidentally going over the top of a sand dune a bit too fast and catching some air (yeah; I definitely need the 2" lift).

A hybrid might work: 0.75"-1.0" spring spacers in the front + 2" bump stop extensions in the front "just in case" to make sure the front driveshaft could never touch the exhaust.

Boost controller is completely optional. The kit has great power without it. Adding a boost controller is just an inexpensive/easy way to add even more power.



My next mod might be brakes

I see this mentioned a lot that you have to upgrade brakes to match engine power upgrades. This is true... for race cars. Race cars need braking capability proportional to their acceleration capability. On a race track, the quicker you can accelerate, the faster you go on the sections of track between the corners, and the harder you have to brake for the corner because you'll be braking from a higher initial speed.

On the street, no matter how fast you can accelerate, you're always going to stop accelerating somewhere around the speed limit. No matter how much power you have, when it comes time to brake, you'll be braking from the same speed. The only things that may require more braking power on the street are much bigger tires and/or more weight (lots of heavy bumpers/armor, towing, etc).

[doc5339]

If you don't take the Jeep off-road, you could probably get by with a simple leveling kit (0.75"-1.0" spacers in the front only). That's what Prodigy uses (or used at one point) on their test vehicle and never had any clearance issues with street driving. The 2" will absolutely guarantee that there will never be any clearance issue, even at full compression after accidentally going over the top of a sand dune a bit too fast and catching some air (yeah; I definitely need the 2" lift).

A hybrid might work: 0.75"-1.0" spring spacers in the front + 2" bump stop extensions in the front "just in case" to make sure the front driveshaft could never touch the exhaust.

Boost controller is completely optional. The kit has great power without it. Adding a boost controller is just an inexpensive/easy way to add even more power.




I see this mentioned a lot that you have to upgrade brakes to match engine power upgrades. This is true... for race cars. Race cars need braking capability proportional to their acceleration capability. On a race track, the quicker you can accelerate, the faster you go on the sections of track between the corners, and the harder you have to brake for the corner because you'll be braking from a higher initial speed.

On the street, no matter how fast you can accelerate, you're always going to stop accelerating somewhere around the speed limit. No matter how much power you have, when it comes time to brake, you'll be braking from the same speed. The only things that may require more braking power on the street are much bigger tires and/or more weight (lots of heavy bumpers/armor, towing, etc).

Just got off the phone with Dan Marra of Prodigy. He said I should be able to get by with just taller bump stops if I am not doing serious off-road stuff; apparently that is how the Prodigy red Jeep is setup.

Dan offered me a good deal, so I guess it ain't over. I am seriously close to "pulling the trigger" on the Prodigy Stage II with Precision Turbo, Journal Bearings, Heat Blanket, and Mishimoto 180 F T-Stat

[UselessPickles]

Just got off the phone with Dan Marra of Prodigy. He said I should be able to get by with just taller bump stops if I am not doing serious off-road stuff; apparently that is how the Prodigy red Jeep is setup.

If it works for them, and your type of driving is similar to theirs, then I would consider replicating their setup exactly (find out exactly which brand/model product they used). But I would still mentally prepare myself for the possibility that you might run into slight issues if you happen to hit a particularly big bump, pothole, railroad crossing, etc., which will force a decision between altering your driving style to avoid those situations, or consider other options of small lifts or leveling kits to decrease the chance of clearance issues.

My prediction is that 2" bump stop extensions combined with a 3/4" or 1" spring spacer in the front would be the best compromise. The 2" bump stop extension will guarantee that it will be impossible for the driveshaft and exhaust to collide. The small amount of lift in the front will minimise how much stock suspension travel you "give up", and allow some decent amount of travel before the jounce bumpers contact the bump stops. When the jounce bumpers hit, it will have an effect like suddenly having a stiffer spring (not sure how much stiffer though), which could make for an uncomfortable stiff ride if the jounce bumpers are routinely hitting during normal daily driving on typical bumps on the road. A 1" lift in the front would have a bare minimum impact on appearance and handling. You may even think the Jeep looks better, since the vehicle will be more level instead of leaning forward.


Any particular reason for the 180*F T-Stat? I didn't even know that was an option. I still have the stock t-stat and have not noticed any cooling system issues.

[doc5339]

[QUOTE=Any particular reason for the 180*F T-Stat? I didn't even know that was an option. I still have the stock t-stat and have not noticed any cooling system issues.[/QUOTE]

The 180 degree F Thermostat is supposed to be a good way to keep engine temperature cooler according to Dan. I am guessing that they have had good results with that setup?

[NOLAjeeper]

Just got off the phone with Dan Marra of Prodigy. He said I should be able to get by with just taller bump stops if I am not doing serious off-road stuff; apparently that is how the Prodigy red Jeep is setup.

Dan offered me a good deal, so I guess it ain't over. I am seriously close to "pulling the trigger" on the Prodigy Stage II with Precision Turbo, Journal Bearings, Heat Blanket, and Mishimoto 180 F T-Stat

Pull the Trigger on Prodigy Stage 2! :) i was the 3rd after Jeff and Jesse to get the turbo for the 3.6 for my 2012 JKU. Prodigys' come a long way from their first tunes, and i can tell you first hand how much their tunes and calibrations have improved over the years. i dont think you can go wrong with the Ripp Charger either they have a great product as well. whichever you go you wont be disappointed, both will deliver very noticeable power. I went with Prodigy personally because i like nature of exhaust driven turbos and the power they can deliver. I dont have my jeep anymore though :( Sold it and bought a house. However ive got a 2015 JKU-R :) and yes i will be putting prodigys turbo on it :) Dans ready and waiting for my order :)

[doc5339]

Thanks for the push towards Prodigy Stage II NOLA.

My only reservation is that I do not want a body lift or any lift for that matter. If I can get by with extended bump stops, I will "pull the trigger."

Dan said it will be a week or so before he gets his pipes in, so I am using that time to have my mechanic check out the clearances for me.

[Pznivy]

Thanks for the push towards Prodigy Stage II NOLA.

My only reservation is that I do not want a body lift or any lift for that matter. If I can get by with extended bump stops, I will "pull the trigger."

Dan said it will be a week or so before he gets his pipes in, so I am using that time to have my mechanic check out the clearances for me.

You need to do a body lift to fit the turbo pipes in? Terrible. Dont screw with your suspension if you dont want to. If you dont want a lift, get a RIPP or Mag supercharger. having to do a lift adds to the cost of the SC and will subtract power as your truck will be higher than it needs to be.

I always think about my next rig being a stock Rubi with just a power mod. No lift. Nothing else. Just a fast stock rubi.

[UselessPickles]

You need to do a body lift to fit the turbo pipes in?

No body lift required. Quite specifically, the downpipe interferes with the final 1.75" of stock suspension up-travel in the front. 1.75" away from completely bottoming out the front suspension, the front driveshaft will contact the downpipe. This is why they recommend a minimum 2" lift. More specifically, it is the 2" bump stop extensions that absolutely guarantee no contact. Prodigy claims that a 3/4" spacer lift in the front is enough to avoid issues for street driving (that's what they have on their test vehicle).


having to do a lift adds to the cost of the SC and will subtract power as your truck will be higher than it needs to be.

1) So be sure to include the cost of a lift (if you don't already have a lift) in the total cost of the turbo install for comparison to the cost of other superchargers. It's not a reason to automatically rule out the turbo as an option. A basic 2" spacer lift is perfect, and is relatively inexpensive (very quick google search finds kits in the $140-$285 range). If you only drive on the street, then the Daystar 3/4" lift may work for you, and that's only $40.

2) A lift does not "subtract power". Yes, it does alter aerodynamics such that a little more power be required to overcome aerodynamic drag at any given speed. But we are talking about a small lift that has minimal impact on aerodynamics. And we're talking about a minimal amount of power lost to that minimal change in aerodynamics. And we're talking about a turbo kit that can make over 400 whp compared the most powerful supercharger kit making 320 whp. This is not a valid concern.

[doc5339]

Is it true that the RIPP's Vortech V3 supercharger requires a rebuild between 50k-80k miles? A guy on another forum posted that, and got me on the fence again.

[doc5339]

No body lift required. Quite specifically, the downpipe interferes with the final 1.75" of stock suspension up-travel in the front. 1.75" away from completely bottoming out the front suspension, the front driveshaft will contact the downpipe. This is why they recommend a minimum 2" lift. More specifically, it is the 2" bump stop extensions that absolutely guarantee no contact. Prodigy claims that a 3/4" spacer lift in the front is enough to avoid issues for street driving (that's what they have on their test vehicle).



1) So be sure to include the cost of a lift (if you don't already have a lift) in the total cost of the turbo install for comparison to the cost of other superchargers. It's not a reason to automatically rule out the turbo as an option. A basic 2" spacer lift is perfect, and is relatively inexpensive (very quick google search finds kits in the $140-$285 range). If you only drive on the street, then the Daystar 3/4" lift may work for you, and that's only $40.

2) A lift does not "subtract power". Yes, it does alter aerodynamics such that a little more power be required to overcome aerodynamic drag at any given speed. But we are talking about a small lift that has minimal impact on aerodynamics. And we're talking about a minimal amount of power lost to that minimal change in aerodynamics. And we're talking about a turbo kit that can make over 400 whp compared the most powerful supercharger kit making 320 whp. This is not a valid concern.

I was soooooooooo close to getting the Stage II from Prodigy! That damn spacer-lift requirement is the only thing that stopped me. Many probably think that I am crazy or stupid, or both. While I am fine making the JKUR faster, I am not OK messing with the stock ride height/center-of-mass. I am not concerned about the increased drag slowing the Jeep down, rather about maintaining some attempt at safe handling.

My primary issue is that any lift will add to poorer handling characteristics and higher potential for roll-over. I understand that the stock JKUR is not awesome in those areas; rather than say screw it, I focus on not messing with the ride height/suspension/steering geometry.

The only other major mods that I am doing are:
-The Rock Hard 4x4 Sport Cage in the hope that it will increase survivability of occupants in the event of roll-ver and to some degree collision.
-Line-X of the interior to make it easier to clean.

[UselessPickles]

Do you ever use 4WD? If not, you could remove the front driveshaft and install the turbo kit with no lift :)

[doc5339]

Believe it or not, I do actually use 4WD, hi, lo, even the lockers. I only use them about twice a year.

[doc5339]

This is how the same poll/same topic shook-out from JK-Forum:

[doc5339]

Finally heard something back on the Edelbrock E-Force installed on an auto trans. This is copied from JK-Forum:

Originally Posted by doc5339
Tons of questions:

-How was the installation and about how long did it take?

-Have noticed a terrible drop in MPG (hand-calculated, not on the EVIC "lie-o-meter")?

-Does the Horsepower and Torque feel linear, does it die-off at any given RPM?

-had any issues with the engine overheating, or just running a bit hot?

-How many miles have you been driving it and what type of driving do you do most?

Thanks in advance!
The installation took me about about 16 hours total and that was because I was missing the evap hose, drill bit, nitrous flare jet, and some other miscellaneous nuts and bolts. So it is always best to check to make sure you have absolutely every nut and bolt counted out before you start. I was so excited to do the install that I didn't do a thorough check. I had to make several trips to the parts store and make up some things as I went along because I did the install over the weekend. Edelbrock did next day the missing items the following business day, but I do think it can be done in about 8 hours if you have everything. The install was not at all difficult. I think the most difficult part of the install was routing one of the stainless fuel lines and that was just because there was not a lot of space near the firewall.

Gas mileage was disappointing at first. On a long ~900mi road trip mostly uphill, I averaged 8mpg. Before the supercharger I got 16-17mpg on the same trip. My normal work commute, mostly highway I was getting about 11mpg. After recalibrating the gas pedal with the procal I've been getting better mileage and improved pedal response. I'm now averaging about 15mpg, which is about 1-2mpg less than stock.

Power wise, it is a totally different vehicle from a dead stop. It just takes off like a rocket and has good torque down low. Passing wise is so-so uphill when going faster than 70mph. I didn't notice much of a difference vs stock for uphill passing. On a flat surface it's much better. It could be much faster if the auto trans wasn't so finicky. It doesn't like to shift at WOT when getting near the red line and I end up hitting the rev limiter usually when it tries to shift out of second and there's even a delay when manually shifting and I still hit the rev limiter. As for flat spots I haven't noticed anything that really sticks out to me. Maybe around 4500 rpm it doesn't seem to pull as hard off the line, but for the most part it feels the same throughout the power band.

I did have issues with the Jeep running very hot. On long hill climbs the temp gauge would go almost to the H. I've had the temp light come on and I've had to pull over to let it cool. I upgraded to the Mishimoto radiator thinking it would help and it still would get hot. I ended up changing my water pump (it was squeaking) and did a vacuum refill on it and it seems to be much better. I have yet to see it climb past 230F on a long hill climb. For the most part it does run pretty hot at idle. I've been keeping track of the temp with a scan guage and it idles at 208F and the fan is almost always running whether or not the ac is on.

I've put about 6k miles on it so far. I think that it probably needs a custom tune for me to be totally happy with it (or maybe if I had a manual instead of an auto since the trans is really the main driveability issue for me) . I'm having an issue with emissions right now that I'm trying to get resolved I have no cel, but it has 2 readiness monitors that are showing incomplete (fuel & o2 sensor) and its had at least 3 weeks since the last time the battery was reset. I do mixed driving, about 50/50 city/highway.

[doc5339]

More opinions from Edelbrock E-Force owners (copied from JK-Forum):


Originally Posted by Hoopskier
I read Josh's opinion and I found a thread on JKowners that I believe is him as well with some others comments. After reading the tuning issues there, and having tuning issues of my own, it is kind of discouraging. Don't like that I have to buy a new PCM to get my JK to accept the Edelbrock tune, and then get Procal for gear and tire adjustments. Others using multiple brand on handheld tuners for different functions. Starting to believe that it will cost much $ more, more than just what the kit cost in order to get things running right, if they ever do. At least another $1k,

Looks like my cost analysis was flawed. Thought since it was a "kit" it was good to go.

Stick more money into it, or jump ship. Hate to throw more good money after bad. Maybe should have done more research like doc.
You are absolutely right. Unfortunately for me I didn't know what I was getting myself in to and had to throw money and a lot of time into it to get it right. I absolutely love it now, but that was not the case in the beginning.

I thought it would be a cheaper alternative to a v8 swap, but after the issues I had to work my way through and the fact that I still need a custom tune, a v8 doesn't seem that expensive anymore. Knowing what I know now, I would have just gone with a v8. Now, I will say if you have a manual you will probably be okay, but if you have an auto I would reconsider a supercharger or if you insist on having one, just know that you may run into issues and that your transmission will sometimes hang onto a gear (usually on an incline, otherwise on a flat surface shifts are quick).

[Pznivy]

i say go turbo if you have an auto. word on the street is it shifts and is fast as hell.

also, v8 swaps are not fool proof. You have issues that cost more with the SC im sure something would pop up with the swap that would cost a few bucks.

[doc5339]

I agree regarding the engine swaps; desirable, but no shortage of expense and hassle.

I posted those over from JK-Forum just to show a couple of Edelbrock E-Force owners' impressions. Seems like the E-Force is possibly on par or below the level of out-of-the-box tuning that Magnuson delivers. That said, install looks very clean other than drilling the engine block in one spot. I like that the Edelbrock Kit because it uses good fasteners as well like real hose-clamps as opposed to worm-drive hose clamps that cause pressure points and generally cause plastic and some metal fittings to crack. Edelbrock Kit also really looks great, but maybe not the best Roots if only because of the out-of-the-box tune.

As for me, I am now between RIPP and ProCharger; was so close to getting Progidy Stage II but just not willing to add spacers/bump stops for pipe clearance.

[doc5339]

Hoopskier from JK-Forum is selling his Edelbrock E-Force at a fair price. Apparently the additional tuning was out of his price range?

[Yoinkers]

its the only way to sell it. "i ran out of money". he bought it already, the money was already spent. There is no continued cost.

If he said, "I put it on and it sucked" No one would buy it.

The fast removal leaves me scratching my head. My gut says he didnt like it.

[doc5339]

its the only way to sell it. "i ran out of money". he bought it already, the money was already spent. There is no continued cost.

If he said, "I put it on and it sucked" No one would buy it.

The fast removal leaves me scratching my head. My gut says he didnt like it.


Apparently his previously installed FlashCal tune did not help?

From Hoopskier on the JK-Forum regarding how complete his lightly used Edelbrock E-Force kit is and why he is selling:
"Essentially nothing is needed to complete the kit. I ran into a tuning issue with my JK, because of some prior software that I had used. This issue is unique to my JK. For my JK it requires the PCM to be replaced, and won't let me use my Flashcal, for tire size changes, (or my Airaid kit). I set a budget for this project, and have to stick with it. The extras put me over, so it is no longer a go."

My only reservations about buying this E-Force Supercharger myself is that I know it will have higher engine temperatures, and I will probably need to have a custom tune made for it. I am also locked into "analysis mode" until I get some data and feedback from ProCharger owners before I actually buy one of these contraptions.

[WhiteRavenRR]

Was the computer not set back to factory parameters before the install?

What would make his JK have unique programming over any other JK from the factory? The only thing that could be different would be if the FlashCal was not used to set it back to OEM. Someone please enlighten me.

[doc5339]

My impression is that the FlashCal messed-up the Edelbrock tune somehow? It may simply be that the tune provided by Edelbrock is just not that good, as this is a common theme with bolt-on forced induction particularly when first released.

The one other person that I have found with the E-Force went with a custom tune.

You could PM Hoopskier over on JK-Forum for a direct answer.