OMG...Prodigy...TURBO!

[JeepLab]

Just got the news..... Prodigy wants to throw its hat in the ring with the two killer superchargers that we are testing head to head right now. To give you an idea of what that means, Prodigy's turbo kit for the 3.8 Jeep wrangler engine made as much power as the Supercharged Pentastars make....on paper.

Here is the dyno chart they post on their website. 350 wheel horse power, and 400 torque. Sounds too good to be true.

157

A big note with RIPP and Magnuson, the supercharger gurus, is drivability. Big power is easy, just cram more air in, but does the truck drive correctly on and off road? We are going to find out.

Particularly off road, where you don't want BURSTS of power. You want an even, predictable gathering of power as you creep and crawl thru difficult terrain. You don't want to be hanging off a rock and have a power burst, it could be catastrophic. Also, the components between the engine and the ground will all be under more strain. So throttle response is paramount.

Can these guys get a beast like this under control? We'll tell you.

[UselessPickles]

To avoid confusion, I'd like to clarify that the dyno chart posted here is for the 3.8 turbo kit with the 12psi kit added to it. Here's a dyno chart comparing the stock 3.8, the "standard" turbo kit, and the 12psi kit:

http://cdn3.volusion.com/fyrqa.kncyr/v/vspfiles/photos/PRO-1001-7.jpg?1392306313

Can't wait to see what the torque curve looks like for the 3.6 kit!

[Frank The Tank]

Pumped to see this...not too many videos or threads about the TC.

From what I'm thinking the turbo charger could be more beneficial to daily driving. Wondering if there is any lag

[JeepLab]

To avoid confusion, I'd like to clarify that the dyno chart posted here is for the 3.8 turbo kit with the 12psi kit added to it. Here's a dyno chart comparing the stock 3.8, the "standard" turbo kit, and the 12psi kit:

http://cdn3.volusion.com/fyrqa.kncyr/v/vspfiles/photos/PRO-1001-7.jpg?1392306313

Can't wait to see what the torque curve looks like for the 3.6 kit!

Excellent correction.

Welcome Pickles. We are excited to have you here. Credit where its due, Pickles contacted us weeks ago and turned us on to Prodigy's Turbo.

Pickles's point is that there is the base kit that makes 8psi and around 275 wheel horse power. Then this 12psi kit pushes the power over 350 wheel horse power.

There is so much to learn about turbos vs. superchargers. The obvious difference is that Superchargers run off the engine belt, and the turbo runs off the exhaust, and is considered more "effiecent". What we didnt know was how their power curves climb off the charts.

Its going to be interesting to see how they do in our Jeeps!

[UselessPickles]

If designed reasonably, there shouldn't be much noticeable lag. The infamy of turbo lag comes from large turbos on small engines used to produce huge power at high RPMs. Prodigy seems to have targeted more to the mid-range RPMs for the 3.8, and I'd expect they'll do something similar for the 3.6. Since the 3.6 is already stronger in higher RPMs in stock form than the 3.8, they may have even been able to target slightly lower RPMs for peak turbo efficiency on the 3.6 while still hitting impressive peak power numbers.

Based on general torque curve shapes, I think the turbo will "feel" kind of like the RIPP centrifugal supercharger in the lower half of the RPM range in that torque gains will ramp up, but it will ramp up much more quickly. In the upper half, it will "feel" kind of like the Magnuson roots style supercharger in that it will be steady strong (relatively constant) torque all the way through, except it will be quite a bit more than the Magnuson. Kind of a hybrid between the two supercharger types.

Is it there yet? Is it there yet? I can't stand the suspense!

[Rexx19]

The other issue is heat in the engine bay... I can't wait to see what their plan is for that.

Maybe you guys could put thermometers in the engine bays of all 3 trucks and see who is hottest?

[JeepLab]

The other issue is heat in the engine bay... I can't wait to see what their plan is for that.

Maybe you guys could put thermometers in the engine bays of all 3 trucks and see who is hottest?

thats a great idea.

i wonder where we can find some thermometers that are wireless, or with wires, that would make that kind of test work.

more research? No problem.

[Frank The Tank]

Heard about the heat problem as well

Could insulating pipes work?

[Tommy Boy]

Going to be sick!

[JeepLab]

Heard about the heat problem as well

Could insulating pipes work?

I would presume it could, or maybe they'll use ceramic coatings? Im trying to get some info out of them but they are in top secret mode right now.

[Snarf77]

I've read some about turbo blankets and ceramic coatings. These could probably address some jk concerns. I believe prodigy uses OEM grade stainless steel for piping per their website. I'm anxious to see some of their solutions.

[UselessPickles]

It's even possible that ceramic coating might not even be much of a benefit for the exhaust pipes. It would depend on how thick the wall of the pipe is and how much hotter than stock the exhaust gets. Since this will be a relatively low boost system, we won't be seeing the same extreme temperatures and glowing red turbos as you see on 1000 hp supras.

When I talked to a coating company about getting a motorcycle header ceramic coated, he was telling me about how stainless steel is a better heat barrier than non-stainless (mild) steel, and that thicker walls work as better heat barriers. So thin mild steel pipes/manifolds get the biggest benefit from ceramic coating.

From what I've read, the turbo blanket is pretty much a no-brainer. Relatively inexpensive and easy to install, keeps under-hood temps noticeably lower, and protects hands from getting burned from accidentally touching the turbo.

Also, the turbo is essentially powered by heat, any heat that escapes from the exhaust pipes or turbine is basically wasted energy that could have been used to power the turbo. Turbo blankets and pipe coatings actually increase turbo efficiency.

[UselessPickles]

Maybe something like this will work for under-hood temp testing?

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Programmable-Thermometer-Wireless-Remote/dp/B002E1AVT8

It's a wireless remote cooking thermometer. Can measure from 32F - 392F. You might even be able to pick one up at a local store if you don't want to wait for shipping. Just be sure to mount it consistently in the same exact spot on each vehicle, with the probe not contacting any hot metal parts.

[JeepLab]

Since this will be a relatively low boost system, we won't be seeing the same extreme temperatures and glowing red turbos as you see on 1000 hp supras.

LOL

I love a supra reference.

Did anyone see the pic of the jeep with its front wheels off the ground from the turbo? Ill have to dig it up. (and its on a 3.8)

[JeepLab]

Maybe something like this will work for under-hood temp testing?

http://www.amazon.com/Taylor-Programmable-Thermometer-Wireless-Remote/dp/B002E1AVT8

It's a wireless remote cooking thermometer. Can measure from 32F - 392F. You might even be able to pick one up at a local store if you don't want to wait for shipping. Just be sure to mount it consistently in the same exact spot on each vehicle, with the probe not contacting any hot metal parts.

that looks perfect. Maybe we should put them under the hood of our SC trucks and see what they read out.

[UselessPickles]

BTW - reviews for that particular thermometer look bad. Not recommending that specific one, but just generally a "remote cooking thermometer".

[UselessPickles]

http://cdn3.volusion.com/fyrqa.kncyr/v/vspfiles/photos/PRO-1001-8.jpg

They had to install a stronger clutch to be able to launch like that.

I'm hoping that the stock clutch will be sufficient for full-throttle fun as long as the clutch is fully engaged before hitting the throttle.

[Snarf77]

I found this site pretty informative regarding heat wrapping turbos and how heat blankets and wraps benefit the turbo setup and vehicle.

http://www.ptpturboblankets.com/faqs.php

[JeepLab]

http://cdn3.volusion.com/fyrqa.kncyr/v/vspfiles/photos/PRO-1001-8.jpg

They had to install a stronger clutch to be able to launch like that.

I'm hoping that the stock clutch will be sufficient for full-throttle fun as long as the clutch is fully engaged before hitting the throttle.

That is NUTTY.

the front end of these trucks in not light.

Does that truck have 35s on it?

[UselessPickles]

Yup, 35" tires: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WGJZPJzNy4

Also, I sure wish this was still true: http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/sponsoring-manufacturer-vendor-forum-24/2011-tuner-now-shipping-252777/#post3276607

I have received confirmation that the soon-to-be-released kit is NOT a twin turbo :(

[JeepLab]

it is a single turbo. Im going to see if I can get a picture of the new set up today

[UselessPickles]

I'd be interested to know how the early attempts of the twin turbo design went, and why they decided to go with a single turbo instead. Smaller twin turbos mounted right on the head of the engine would theoretically spool up more quickly, but there would be additional length/volume of of intake piping between the turbos and the intake manifold, which would pressurize more slowly and negate some of the reduced lag properties of the twins.

Then you'd also need extra intake piping going from a single air filter (or air box) location to the inlets of both turbos (edit: guess it wouldn't have to be from a single shared location, but you definitely wouldn't want air filters mounted directly on the turbos down low right next to the engine). All the extra air intake piping would add parts costs and installation complexity (if you can even find a way to route everything through the engine bay). The location of the single turbo layout allows you to just mount an air filter directly on the turbo inlet.

Exhaust piping would be greatly simplified by having twins mounted right onto the engine. It would almost be identical to stock exhaust piping, especially if they used turbos with internal wastegates. This would lower costs and simplify installation on that end.

Lots of competing factors that would need to balance out properly to make twins better than a single turbo. I just hope they went for a reasonably sized single turbo that will have minimal lag and good low-mid RPM response, rather than focusing too much on getting maximum peak power with a bigger turbo.

Waiting for pictures :)

[JeepLab]

I'd be interested to know how the early attempts of the twin turbo design went, and why they decided to go with a single turbo instead. Smaller twin turbos mounted right on the head of the engine would theoretically spool up more quickly, but there would be additional length/volume of of intake piping between the turbos and the intake manifold, which would pressurize more slowly and negate some of the reduced lag properties of the twins.

Then you'd also need extra intake piping going from a single air filter (or air box) location to the inlets of both turbos (edit: guess it wouldn't have to be from a single shared location, but you definitely wouldn't want air filters mounted directly on the turbos down low right next to the engine). All the extra air intake piping would add parts costs and installation complexity (if you can even find a way to route everything through the engine bay). The location of the single turbo layout allows you to just mount an air filter directly on the turbo inlet.

Exhaust piping would be greatly simplified by having twins mounted right onto the engine. It would almost be identical to stock exhaust piping, especially if they used turbos with internal wastegates. This would lower costs and simplify installation on that end.

Lots of competing factors that would need to balance out properly to make twins better than a single turbo. I just hope they went for a reasonably sized single turbo that will have minimal lag and good low-mid RPM response, rather than focusing too much on getting maximum peak power with a bigger turbo.

Waiting for pictures :)

I think the plan to go with the single turbo had to do with the pentastar's cramped engine bay. This info is all tenative, but we are expecting 1, 2, and 3 stage kits, so there should be a turbo to fit more of the audiences budget.

As far as a picture, Im hoping to have my hands on one early next week.

[UselessPickles]

Stupid physical reality getting in the way...

Do you know which "stage" kit you'll be getting?

The different stages could also widen the target audience in that a lower boost "stage 1" kit might actually be better for more serious off-roading/crawling, because there wouldn't be as much of a sharp rise in torque in the mid RPM range. This will be interesting.

[JeepLab]

We have no idea about the different stages,

We need to see how it all fits together before getting into that.

Rest assured, I'll have complete explanations for each kit and the pros and cons of each.

As well as pics of each kit.

[Pete]

Here is another dyno and quarter mile times.


http://youtu.be/ogFU_UdJ3tU

[JeepLab]

Keep in mind everyone, That video is the 3.8 motor.

The pentastar starts about 100 hp higher.

No telling what its going to do with a turbo on it.

[UselessPickles]

That video is for the 8psi kit for the 3.8. We're waiting on the kit for the 3.6 Pentastar.

Edit: JeepLab beat me to it. I had this screen pulled up then got distracted for a while before I got around to replying :)

[JeepLab]

Edit: JeepLab beat me to it. I had this screen pulled up then got distracted for a while before I got around to replying :)

You were pretty quick tho.

[Snarf77]

Nearly 20mph faster in a quarter mile is pretty significant improvement. Check my math here: 28% improvement in speed at the quarter mile mark and 20% improvement in time to the mark! Again, thats on the 3.8. On the 2012+ models...who knows but i bet it will be nasty.

[UselessPickles]

I think it's safe to predict that we will at least see power/torque/acceleration levels on the 3.6 kit that are similar to the 3.8 12 psi kit.

[UselessPickles]

I just realized there's one piece of info you might have that hasn't been provided yet: Do you already have a vehicle chosen to receive a Prodigy turbo? If so, details?

[JeepLab]

I just realized there's one piece of info you might have that hasn't been provided yet: Do you already have a vehicle chosen to receive a Prodigy turbo? If so, details?

There are a LOT of unanswered questions with this unit. Step one is to study it and understand the planning behind how it was designed. Next for head to head testing, we'd need a truck that would match up well with our supercharged trucks and see how even we can get them for testing. We can't even get a pic to release so far.

[Pznivy]

My jeep has zero engine bay room, I can't wait to see how these pipes are run. its a real puzzle in there.

[Snarf77]

My jeep has zero engine bay room, I can't wait to see how these pipes are run. its a real puzzle in there.

Yeah, I bet thats why its 2014 before we're seeing a kit. Probably took some serious engineering.

[Pznivy]

Where are the pictures!?!

[UselessPickles]

Sounds like they are not releasing any info/pictures until they get a full kit of final production parts installed on a vehicle and tested. A final production kit has not yet been installed on a vehicle, but a little bird told me that it may be happening very soon. I would not be surprised if info/pictures started flowing more freely within the next week or two.

[Pznivy]

good undercover work!

[JeepLab]

good undercover work!

Thats pickles for you. He has been on this turbo for MONTHS. I can't wait for the pics, then we can dissect the install and get this show on the road.

[Snarf77]

The suspense here is incredible. When you get that picture, don't hold back. Post it up. I wish they'd release a teaser..maybe just the intercooler or some pipes routed around the edge of the 3.6. *drool*

[UselessPickles]

Look what prodigy posted on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform/posts/597604563666514:0

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1922365_597604230333214_1320827853_n.jpg

[Snarf77]

Look what prodigy posted on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform/posts/597604563666514:0

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1922365_597604230333214_1320827853_n.jpg

I was looking around under my hood trying to figure out where in the heck one would put the turbo. This picture is incredibly helpful. It still seems pretty close to a lot of heat sensitive things, like the wire loom towards the radiator (can be relocated a bit north) and the fluid container there. BUT, there isn't anything that can't be solved.

Technically..in that location it would still leave the ability to add a snorkel. Not that you would want to if you were looking for maximum air flow, but at least it still leaves room to adapt and head up through the hood or towards the passenger windshield/hood cowl where you could exit. Very cool and good find.

[UselessPickles]

I think a simple turbo blanket would solve your heat concerns without relocating anything: http://ptpturboblankets.com/why_turbo_blankets.php

The fluid container should not be an issue because that's on the "cold side" of the turbo.

[Snarf77]

I think a simple turbo blanket would solve your heat concerns without relocating anything: http://ptpturboblankets.com/why_turbo_blankets.php

The fluid container should not be an issue because that's on the "cold side" of the turbo.

Yeah..I was reading a lot on their site and mentioned the turbo blankets back on page 2. I think you'e right in that the blanket would go a long way, even if only to alleviate concerns. The picture is also at an angle, which makes things seem closer than they really are under the hood. Pretty excited now!

[JeepLab]

this kit is completely going into the unknown on power.... A little birdy told me that the base kit might ship set up for 12 psi. (the amount of their top tier kit for the prior model 3.8 wrangler)

They have a lot of confidence in the pentastar and are not afraid of the extra boost. Their upgraded model, may be well past 12 psi.

[UselessPickles]

MOAR BOOST!!!

Sounds like we will have to start worrying about flipping over backwards in addition to rolling over sideways.

[Snarf77]

MOAR BOOST!!!

Sounds like we will have to start worrying about flipping over backwards in addition to rolling over sideways.

LOL. I can just see you saying that with crazy eyes and a maniacal laugh! "MUAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!"

[DukeofJeep]

Man I can't wait to hear more about this 3.6 kit! I am really hoping the under hood temps aren't effected too much, especially a full day of crawling in heat like Moab in the summer. This kit is really getting my interest peaked!

[JeepLab]

Man I can't wait to hear more about this 3.6 kit! I am really hoping the under hood temps aren't effected too much, especially a full day of crawling in heat like Moab in the summer. This kit is really getting my interest peaked!

DUKEOFJEEP! 1st Post! Welcome. We are happy to have you.

Here's your reward....an update that I wasnt going to release.... I spoke to Prodigy last friday, and they told me that they are planning to have the kit completed in 10 days! Thats assuming there are no set backs. As soon as one get shipped....its getting shipped here. We will start with an unboxing and disecting the instructions and discuss what pipes run near what components in the engine bay.... And a LOT more. Thousands of pics.... Stay Tuned!

[DukeofJeep]

Thank you! I have been following the Magnuson thread on wrangler forum, your efforts are greatly appreciated in all the testing you and your team does. Very excited for your input on this kit especially since you have hands on with two other SC kits. 👍👏

[UselessPickles]

Here's another newly-released pic. Still not quite sure where the coolant reservoir moved to (I erroneously previously said it was moved to upper right of image; but then I edited):

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1912438_598976266862677_1275547214_n.jpg

[UselessPickles]

Stock engine compartment for comparison:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/IMG_6295.jpg

[Snarf77]

I can't wait to see how those pipes are routed. It appears like a large portion of the front of the jeep will have to come out to do the install.

[JeepLab]

I can't wait to see how those pipes are routed. It appears like a large portion of the front of the jeep will have to come out to do the install.

I want to see if the oil pan gets modded. I was told it would by someone who has nothing to do with prodigy. Its all speculation until we get to see the instructions.

[Snarf77]

Don't they advertise the kit as bolt-on or nearly bolt-on? That can be loosely used, I know, but that seems fairly extreme. Like you said, we'll know when the instructions come out.

I recall the RIPP supercharger was "bolt on" basically, but that install required some cutting and modding, and a lot of removal of this and that. Only time will tell!

[UselessPickles]

The 3.8 kit required drilling a hole in the oil pan to mount an oil fitting for the return line. I expect the same will be needed for the new kit. See the bottom of page 13 of the install guide for the 3.8 kit: http://www.prodigyperformance.com/v/vspfiles/Install_Guides/Prodigy/Turbo%20Kit%2007-11%20Manual.pdf

[UselessPickles]

Looks like they do describe the 3.8 kit as a "complete bolt on Jeep turbo kit". I think "bolt on" for major mods like a turbo kit has a bit of leniency to mean "a competent DIY home mechanic can do this in their garage/driveway with basic tools that you probably already have; no plasma cutter or welding required"

[Snarf77]

Looks like they do describe the 3.8 kit as a "complete bolt on Jeep turbo kit". I think "bolt on" for major mods like a turbo kit has a bit of leniency to mean "a competent DIY home mechanic can do this in their garage/driveway with basic tools that you probably already have; no plasma cutter or welding required"

Exactly- same as the RIPP supercharger. Competent shadetree mechanics that can read instructions should have a good chance of success!

[Pznivy]

If this thing is so close to release, You guys should be able to at least get a copy of the instructions.

Climb in thru the bathroom window or something. I read this site because you manage to get this stuff first.

[UselessPickles]

How about a JeepLab recon mission? Pay for my round-trip ticket from Detroit to Palm Beach and a night in a motel, and I'll do some interrogations and take pictures. Maybe I'll even convince them to let me drive their test vehicle for some exclusive pre-release impressions :)

[JeepLab]

How about a JeepLab recon mission? Pay for my round-trip ticket from Detroit to Palm Beach and a night in a motel, and I'll do some interrogations and take pictures. Maybe I'll even convince them to let me drive their test vehicle for some exclusive pre-release impressions :)

the mission impossible theme song plays in the background....

[UselessPickles]

But then as I approach the turbo Jeep to drive it, this starts playing:


http://youtu.be/rmHDhAohJlQ

[JeepLab]

Just talked to prodigy. Paper instructions are unavailable right now.

They have the prototype working and will be doing some high speed testing of their own. Then tearing the prototype down and building the jigs to mass produce all the custom pipe they made.

Once the jigs are made, they will reinstall their unit with pictures and what not to make clear instructions. They assure me its completely bolt on, no cutting anywhere.

[UselessPickles]

They have the prototype working and will be doing some high speed testing of their own. Then tearing the prototype down and building the jigs to mass produce all the custom pipe they made.

Once the jigs are made, they will reinstall their unit with pictures and what not to make clear instructions.


I spoke to Prodigy last friday, and they told me that they are planning to have the kit completed in 10 days!

10 days from last Friday would be next Monday. That sounds pretty optimistic, depending on what exactly they mean by "have the kit completed". Sounds like it doesn't mean it will be ready to ship that soon.

[UselessPickles]

A couple minor tidbits:

Everything is going smoothly and as planned with the final prototype. They hope have some new info (presumably dyno results) ready to publish next week.

Also, they don't foresee any problems with the stock clutch. I was a bit concerned about maybe needing to upgrade to a stronger clutch ($$$!), so I'm glad to hear this.

[Snarf77]

not needing to install a new clutch is huge! this gets more exciting every day. Their timeline sounds pretty aggressive but I'm sure they are going full speed trying to get it to market.

[DukeofJeep]

This should really be good👍being in Colorado even the Pentastar needs some help 😕

[UselessPickles]

There's some people poo-pooing all over my thread about the turbo over on the wranglerforum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/prodigy-performance-turbo-for-3-6-pentastar-576626.html), with comments such as, "When are you ever going to get the RPMs high enough to even get the turbo spooling off road?"

I decided to actually do some basic math and answer that question, and I think the results are interesting enough to share over here. The following is a copy/paste of my reply...



Since we don't have details on the 3.6 turbo kit, let's talk in terms of the existing 3.8 turbo kit, 12 psi. Here's the torque gains at a few rpms (refer to the dyno chart I posted earlier if you want to confirm the numbers):

2000 rpm: 25 ft-lb, 16% gain
2500 rpm: 55 ft-lb, 33% gain
3000 rpm: 105 ft-lb, 68% gain
3500 rpm: 185 ft-lb, 116% gain

Now let's look at the speeds attained at the same rpms.

First, let's assume my plain old stock Wrangler Sport with 29" tires and 3.21 gears, in 1st gear, 4LO.

2000 rpm: 5.3 mph (25 ft-lb, 16% gain)
2500 rpm: 6.6 mph (55 ft-lb, 33% gain)
3000 rpm: 7.9 mph (105 ft-lb, 68% gain)
3500 rpm: 9.3 mph (185 ft-lb, 116% gain)

So there you have it. Significant gains in the 5-10 mph range. That is a very common speed range for me on the off-road trails that I drive on. If you are not focused on extremely slow rock crawling, then this is usable torque for you.

But that's pretty tall gearing for off-roading. How about a Rubicon with the 4:1 transfer case, 33" tires and 4.10 gears?

(EDIT: corrected a miscalculation of speeds)
2000 rpm: 2.7 mph (25 ft-lb, 16% gain)
2500 rpm: 3.4 mph (55 ft-lb, 33% gain)
3000 rpm: 4.0 mph (105 ft-lb, 68% gain)
3500 rpm: 4.7 mph (185 ft-lb, 116% gain)

I'd say that looks pretty damn usable for low-speed off-roading. Maybe still not extreme rock-crawling usable, but I'm not a rock crawler, so I don't know.

The kinds of trails I drive on, I'm often in the 5-10 mph range in 4LO and 1st gear. Yes, I actually keep it in 1st gear so I can make use of the mid/high rpm range and the power that comes with it!

I hope this answers your question.

[JeepLab]

There's some people poo-pooing all over my thread about the turbo over on the wranglerforum (http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/prodigy-performance-turbo-for-3-6-pentastar-576626.html), with comments such as, "When are you ever going to get the RPMs high enough to even get the turbo spooling off road?".

I've gotten the same note in each supercharger thread.

Its a short sighted opinion that is easy to throw out with little knowledge of superchargers and their uses offroad.

The answer to this question, is when your offroad, you can crawl in lower gear, at higher rpm WHEN you need more power. RATHER than goose the throttle.

I did a video on this technique. Its a very simple concept, and I dont understand why some people cant grasp it.

The extra power is useful when your slow offroad and fast on the highway, You just need to manipulate the RPM to use it... when its called for.

[UselessPickles]

It's kind of a strange conflict of priorities I see. People want to gear down their axles (numerically higher) a lot for better low speed off-road grunt, but then there seems to be a general fear of using anything over 3000 rpm. The whole point of gears, 4LO, and the transmission is to have the ability to take advantage of the engine's power as best as possible at any speed. By the very definition of power, if you have any sort of decent torque curve, peak power will be in the upper RPM range. Numerically higher gears in the axle allows you to reach higher power levels of your engine at lower ground speeds. If you continue to always shift below 3000 rpm after re-gearing, then you're kinda missing the point.

I had someone tell me in a thread that they "couldn't conceive of ever running any vehicle at 4000 rpms under any conditions". It was a thread where he was complaining about wanting stronger acceleration. If you want the power, downshift and rev it up! There's a rev limiter around 6400 or 6500 to keep you in a safe operating range. You will not hurt the engine.

[Gunner]

I've videoed my 2013 auto doing 0 to 100 on the dry lake bed twice. Once bone stock and once with a 3.5 RK lift, 35 KM2's,4.56's and a Procal flash. The gears and tires were the quicker of the two. Not by a lot though. It just ran up to 100 and stopped accelerating when the speed limiter kicked in.

[JeepLab]

I've videoed my 2013 auto doing 0 to 100 on the dry lake bed twice. Once bone stock and once with a 3.5 RK lift, 35 KM2's,4.56's and a Procal flash. The gears and tires were the quicker of the two. Not by a lot though. It just ran up to 100 and stopped accelerating when the speed limiter kicked in.

Is there a link to this video? I'd love to see it.

[Pznivy]

When is this thing coming.....?

[Snarf77]

I have a question; maybe for pickles as he's in-the-know: What type of exhaust system is Prodigy envisioning using behind the turbo system?

[UselessPickles]

When is this thing coming.....?

Don't know for sure yet. "Soon".

I know that they definitely want to have everything ready so they can show it off at Jeep Beach Week, promote it, and generate sales: http://www.jeepbeach.com/

Based on that, I would expect it to be available at least by late April. Of course, they are trying to make it available much sooner if possible. We should hopefully get some more details this week as they finish up their final tune testing and start preparing for production.


I have a question; maybe for pickles as he's in-the-know: What type of exhaust system is Prodigy envisioning using behind the turbo system?

As far as I know, the kit is intended to work with no additional supporting mods necessary, so stock exhaust is expected/supported (except for the parts of the exhaust replaced by the turbo kit).

The kit includes fine tuning via email based on data logs (at least the 3.8 kit did). I imagine that if you wanted aftermarket exhaust, your best deal would be to get it installed before or at the same time as the turbo so that the fine tuning via email will be fine tuned for whatever exhaust you are running. This would definitely be a topic worth discussing with Prodigy directly before making any decisions just in case there are any compatibility concerns. It seems to me that a turbo system could benefit from a more free-flowing exhaust system (more power to the wheels instead of fighting back-pressure in the exhaust, cooler exhaust pipes, etc).

[UselessPickles]

We'll have to wait longer for dyno results :(

Getting the prototype pipes uninstalled (already done) to setup for production took priority. Dyno testing will happen "probably next week".

[Snarf77]

We'll have to wait longer for dyno results :(

Getting the prototype pipes uninstalled (already done) to setup for production took priority. Dyno testing will happen "probably next week".

A few pictures of said pipes would sure be exciting. I'm still stuck on exhaust. I'm thinking an AFE Mach Force Hi-tuck system was ideal before the turbo. Now I wonder if something more free-flowing would be better. I feel like the pressure to get the exhaust right early on (based on your point) is worth the stress. Unfortunately, Jeep exhaust reviews aren't terribly relevant to me now unless they have boost. I'm sure AFE's system would be a good starting point.

[UselessPickles]

I just noticed something interesting...

Here's a picture of the turbo from the 3.8 kit:

http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=438841&d=1364347297

source: http://www.jk-forum.com/forums/modified-jk-tech-2/turbocharging-my-3-8-a-269333/


Now here's a picture of the turbo from the 3.6 kit (from Prodigy's facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform)):

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/1932372_598974343529536_691171599_n.jpg


Those are "anti-surge" ports. From what I've read about them, they essentially give the turbo the ability to operate over a wider range of conditions (combinations of flow rate and turbine speed). If you know what a "compressor map" is, then "anti-surge" ports move the "surge line" further left on the map.

I think what this could possibly mean is that the large "bump" in torque on the torque chart could be a little more spread out across a wider RPM range on the 3.6 kit when compared to the 3.8 kit, maybe leading to better gains at lower RPMs?

I just want to see the dyno chart :)

[UselessPickles]

Here's Garrett's own explanation of surge, the "surge line" on the compressor map, and how anti-surge ports affect it: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/surge_line

[JeepLab]

Dear lord, Im climbing the walls waiting for this thing to get here.

CLIMBING THE WALLS.

[UselessPickles]

http://media3.giphy.com/media/76dXlFZZEqNH2/200_s.gif

I recently figured out that I'm almost 100% sure I can afford the kit right about now, based on what I know so far about possible pricing (got some extra cash via referral bonuses at work!). I still need final pricing info to determine whether I can get ceramic coated pipes and a blacked-out intercooler though...

[GizmoGoat]

Pickles- do you know if the AFE Y-pipe is compatible with the 3.6 turbo kit?

[UselessPickles]

I think it's safe to say that the AFE Y-pipe will be incompatible. That entire section of the stock exhaust will be replaced with the turbo kit. It has its own 2-into-1 pipie heading up toward the turbo in front of the engine. Then a single pipe heads down from the turbo and back to connect with the remainder of the stock exhaust.

I haven't seen how the pipes are routed in the 3.6 kit yet, but I think it will be along the same lines as the 3.8 kit pictured here:

http://www.jkowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=63165&d=1361906400

[GizmoGoat]

Ok thanks! Just trying to plan ahead. I also am going to pull the trigger on this kit! I can't wait! I talked to prodogy yesterday and they gave me a ETA of 3-4 weeks. I was leaning toward the maggy but feel the turbo better suits my needs.

[UselessPickles]

I sure hope they announce all the details sooner than 3-4 weeks!

Ross, are you withholding any good info?

It's taking longer than I expected for any official info to start coming out. I've emailed a couple questions about the lack of BOV and about the anti-surge compressor, but I've gotten no responses at all. It doesn't really seem worth bothering them with a phone call about these things when all the basic details of the kit haven't even been announced yet.

[JeepLab]

I sure hope they announce all the details sooner than 3-4 weeks!

Ross, are you withholding any good info?

It's taking longer than I expected for any official info to start coming out. I've emailed a couple questions about the lack of BOV and about the anti-surge compressor, but I've gotten no responses at all. It doesn't really seem worth bothering them with a phone call about these things when all the basic details of the kit haven't even been announced yet.

I dont have any more info than you at this point.

I thought the kit being available to the public so fast was optimistic when they told me they wouldn't release pics, and hadn't been complete with the mock up to mass produce the pipes required.

This stuff has to be right when they sell it, so rushing it at this point when both superchargers are already in the market does not make sense.

The plan is good, and should work fine, but they have to put in the time and effort to make sure an idiot can install it.

That means good pictures and instructions that can be difficult for people who know turbos and engines as well as these guys do. Their advanced brains become an obstacle when writing instructions, because they already know so much, it easy to assume that the standard person might know the basics, when the standard person might not.

It all takes time to do it right. As soon as they are confident that its ready...

[JeepLab]

Ok... things are starting to cook....

[UselessPickles]

You're such a tease...

[JeepLab]

I got the message after they were closed today...

I need to get a confirmation on some point before spilling the beans. Ill spill them tomorrow.

[Snarf77]

I got the message after they were closed today...

I need to get a confirmation on some point before spilling the beans. Ill spill them tomorrow.

I believe its officially tomorrow! ;). But seriously..get your ducks in a row before firing.

[JeepLab]

I believe its officially tomorrow! ;). But seriously..get your ducks in a row before firing.

good advice.

still waiting on confirmation

[JeepLab]

I should have confirmation on on a Turbo shipping date next monday.

[UselessPickles]

That was quite anti-climactic. Is that all the beans you have to spill?

[JeepLab]

It really was...

Id gotten an email that suggested that the prodigy guys might come here to do the install on camera with us.

That was what I was trying to confirm. As of now Im not sure whats happening as far as weather they are coming to NJ, but the part that was cleared up is that I should expect a shipping date early next week.

[UselessPickles]

That could work out nicely if they were there for the install, especially if they observe more than help. It would be like usability testing, where they could make note of any confusion/uncertainty you run into during the install and use it to improve their instructions. It would also be nice to have them right there to directly discuss the various concerns that have come up (under-hood heat, hot-side of the turbo so close to plastic parts, etc), and any other questions you come up with during the install and initial test drives.

[JeepLab]

That could work out nicely if they were there for the install, especially if they observe more than help. It would be like usability testing, where they could make note of any confusion/uncertainty you run into during the install and use it to improve their instructions. It would also be nice to have them right there to directly discuss the various concerns that have come up (under-hood heat, hot-side of the turbo so close to plastic parts, etc), and any other questions you come up with during the install and initial test drives.

agreed. It would be excellent to have them here with us. I was shocked that it was even a possibility. They are trying to crank out these kits as fast as they can, to take the time to work a FLIGHT into that schedule would be incredible.

Even if they don't end up here with us, we will be using the instructions from a rookie point of view, and if there is anything we find to be unclear or worthy or retooling, we will make them a list. We do that for all our installs.

[Pznivy]

This is finally happening....

[Snarf77]

This is finally happening....

I, for one, hope they make it out in-person. It would give them a massive head start, potentially saving weeks or even months of back and forth with early consumers with unanticipated install issues. New photos for updated instructions, clarifications on hard to understand portions, an install "video" perhaps for youtube (one of the most useful things EVER) that everyone would refer to, etc.

That being said, it would be a huge effort for them to come out.

*fingers crossed*

[Yoinkers]

When this does actually happen, you guys should block non-members from the turbo content.

Make some of these lurkers make accounts and get in the game... This site has soooo many "silent watchers".

Get onboard EVERYONE!

[UselessPickles]

That would be about as effective as news websites that require an account to read their articles. Depending on how they block access, I simply hack around it, or just go somewhere else :)

There's really no reason to block non-members from viewing content, unless the cost of bandwidth is prohibitive. Viewers generate ad revenue, regardless of whether they are logged-in. Non-member viewers that like what they see spread the word to others that may become contributing members, or at least more ad-revenue-generating viewers.

[JeepLab]

When this does actually happen, you guys should block non-members from the turbo content.

Make some of these lurkers make accounts and get in the game... This site has soooo many "silent watchers".

Get onboard EVERYONE!

We would NEVER block anyone. If they have something to say they'll get in and say it. If they like to read thats cool.

All forums have this sort of relationship. The content is posted by few but read by many.

Im just glad they are watching. (silent or not)

[STRAC]

Well- this thread got me to sign up when I found it yesterday...and could be the deciding factor in getting rid of my built Ram 5500 on 43's for another Jeep (nothing to haul anymore)

Sold my '08 JKU Rubicon with 5.7 hemi and full AEV kit last fall (too many rigs and still had to haul), but I miss it big time. Drove a couple new 2drs with the 3.6, they were ok (all stock)- but nothing like the hemi.

These results just might nudge me back into a JK: this time 2 dr, light(ish), stretched and low COG (LOVE the Vengeance build)...factoring in the cost of a hemi or LS swap is getting (way) up there, turbo or SC on a 3.6 might just make it more doable. :cool:

[JeepLab]

Well- this thread got me to sign up when I found it yesterday...and could be the deciding factor in getting rid of my built Ram 5500 on 43's for another Jeep (nothing to haul anymore)

Sold my '08 JKU Rubicon with 5.7 hemi and full AEV kit last fall (too many rigs and still had to haul), but I miss it big time. Drove a couple new 2drs with the 3.6, they were ok (all stock)- but nothing like the hemi.

These results just might nudge me back into a JK: this time 2 dr, light(ish), stretched and low COG (LOVE the Vengeance build)...factoring in the cost of a hemi or LS swap is getting (way) up there, turbo or SC on a 3.6 might just make it more doable. :cool:

FIRST POST!

Welcome STRAC!

Sounds like your a veteran jeeper as a hemi swap is still the most invasive thing you can do to your rig. Excellent to have you.

Give us a pic of your Ram 5500, with 43s it sounds monstrous.

[JeepLab]

If anyone is wondering, and not to hijack my own thread...

this is the vengeance build.

572

Now back to your regularly scheduled TURBO discussion

[UselessPickles]

Now back to your regularly scheduled TURBO discussion

Just as soon as you give us something to discuss...

Don't you have any connections down in Florida that you could send in to stake out Prodigy's shop?

[STRAC]

FIRST POST!

Welcome STRAC!

Sounds like your a veteran jeeper as a hemi swap is still the most invasive thing you can do to your rig. Excellent to have you.

Give us a pic of your Ram 5500, with 43s it sounds monstrous.

Don't want to hijack (more, but since there won't be any TURBO news till next week...), here is my build thread on pirate: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/tow-rigs-trailers/1162665-ram-5500-build.html

If the link is off base just let me know and I'll delete (just as fast as with my EGR & DPF! ;) )

I really want to see the results of this turbo on a 3.6...

[UselessPickles]

I came across the best argument I've seen so far for not installing a Prodigy turbo kit:

"The Pentastar motor, as much as I like the one in my wife's Jeep, does not feel like the kind of motor that would like a turbo strapped to it."

[JeepLab]

I came across the best argument I've seen so far for not installing a Prodigy turbo kit:

"The Pentastar motor, as much as I like the one in my wife's Jeep, does not feel like the kind of motor that would like a turbo strapped to it."

This is priceless.

must be a mechanic.

My pentastar LOVES its SC. I cant imagine a pentastar that would like a turbo.

[Snarf77]

This is priceless.

must be a mechanic.

My pentastar LOVES its SC. I cant imagine a pentastar that would like a turbo.

My pentastar loves long walks on the beach, cats, and romantic dinners. Oh...and turbos.

[UselessPickles]

I should have confirmation on on a Turbo shipping date next monday.

Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

[JeepLab]

Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

Hang in there. Im following up...

[JeepLab]

Here's what I got back-

REAL close, really! Dyno testing tomorrow at 6 pm. 1/4 mile at PBIR on Friday. We'll have pictures and video to release this week. Tentative plan for ship to you next week.
I'll update you tomorrow night.
Will start accepting pre-orders next week. Pipes finalized and going into production later this week.

[Jkfletch7]

Hey guys first post! Here's an email I just got
"We’ve completed the Turbo Kit for the 2012 3.6L Pentastar engine. Production is now underway and we are accepting orders. Tonight on our website I will be posting the results of our Dyno testing.
Full introduction will be tomorrow on our website!
Stay tuned………

Dan Marra
Vice President
Prodigy Performance, LLC
dan@prodigyperformance.com
561.676.3123"

[JeepLab]

Hey guys first post! Here's an email I just got
"We’ve completed the Turbo Kit for the 2012 3.6L Pentastar engine. Production is now underway and we are accepting orders. Tonight on our website I will be posting the results of our Dyno testing.
Full introduction will be tomorrow on our website!
Stay tuned………

Dan Marra
Vice President
Prodigy Performance, LLC
dan@prodigyperformance.com
561.676.3123"

HEY NEW GUY! WELCOME!
add yourself to the list of us waiting for this monster to arrive. As soon as it does, this thread will be loaded with pics and opinions of their plan to add this un-godly amount of power to our pentastars.

[UselessPickles]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_meqh7yRqla1qgxmhu.gif

[Snarf77]

I hope that along with the results of the dyno testing, they do a video of the 1/4 mile run and associated times Friday. Super exciting.

[UselessPickles]

"We are introducing the Stage 1 Turbo Kit for 3.6L Pentastar first. This is the base turbo kit.
We will offer upgrade components to make it a Stage 2 next. This will be the intercooler kit.
Finally, the Stage 3 Turbo will include the boost kit to take it to the top.
Ceramic coating is something we will look at after product introduction.
Turbo blankets with Prodigy logo are being manufactured now.
Polished and drilled housing on the turbo unit will be an option. The photos we’ll release tomorrow will have the polished housing, but that will not be in the basic Stage 1,2, or 3 offering."

[Snarf77]

"We are introducing the Stage 1 Turbo Kit for 3.6L Pentastar first. This is the base turbo kit.
We will offer upgrade components to make it a Stage 2 next. This will be the intercooler kit.
Finally, the Stage 3 Turbo will include the boost kit to take it to the top.
Ceramic coating is something we will look at after product introduction.
Turbo blankets with Prodigy logo are being manufactured now.
Polished and drilled housing on the turbo unit will be an option. The photos we’ll release tomorrow will have the polished housing, but that will not be in the basic Stage 1,2, or 3 offering."

Seems like several stages of expensive! I was hoping the intercooler would be part of the stage 1 but I come from a relative state of ignorance of such things. The intercooler definitely seems worthwhile.

[UselessPickles]

"With the numbers we expect to see tonight, Stage 1 is going to make a lot of people happy!"

Maybe the intercooler won't be so necessary? Although, I'm of the opinion that any amount of power that can be had without major engine work is necessary to have, because why not? :)

[GizmoGoat]

I wonder how soon after release will the intercooler kit be avaiable?

[JeepLab]

I wonder how soon after release will the intercooler kit be avaiable?

really at this point I wouldnt venture to guess. might be quick once they start laying out this first stage....

[GizmoGoat]

Man I hope so. If not i may have to consider goin with one of the supercharger kits as I'm ready (or want) some sort of FAI on my 2014 Jk today. I'm a little bummed out as I've patiently waited for this kit, that it's not being released as a whole kit from the get go!

[UselessPickles]

http://tammybruce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/good-things.jpg

I was preparing to buy a RIPP when they were getting ready to start selling it (back in September last year). Then I found out about vague mentions of Prodigy working on a turbo kit. I've held off on buying a RIPP this long to weigh my options before spending a large chunk of cash. At least wait another 2 weeks or so to hopefully get an idea of when the upgrade options will become available, what the actual benefits will be, etc.

Especially now that we have JeepLab getting ready to do testing/comparison of RIPP, Magnuson and Prodigy, it would be almost foolish to make a decision right now. It's very rare to have access to first-hand experience with direct comparisons between multiple major aftermarket options like this.

[JeepLab]

http://tammybruce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/good-things.jpg

I was preparing to buy a RIPP when they were getting ready to start selling it (back in September last year). Then I found out about vague mentions of Prodigy working on a turbo kit. I've held off on buying a RIPP this long to weigh my options before spending a large chunk of cash. At least wait another 2 weeks or so to hopefully get an idea of when the upgrade options will become available, what the actual benefits will be, etc.

Especially now that we have JeepLab getting ready to do testing/comparison of RIPP, Magnuson and Prodigy, it would be almost foolish to make a decision right now. It's very rare to have access to first-hand experience with direct comparisons between multiple major aftermarket options like this.

This guy gets it.

Each power mod so far has pros and cons. So far the turbo is supposed to make GOBS of power. What are the cons? Only one way to find out.

[UselessPickles]

No dyno results posted on Prodigy's website or Facebook yet :(

I hope there weren't any problems with the dyno testing yesterday.

[JeepLab]

No dyno results posted on Prodigy's website or Facebook yet :(

I hope there weren't any problems with the dyno testing yesterday.


No dyno testing problems. Ive been on the phone with prodigy all morning, the dyno testing was a success.

Numbers are coming, Ive been told what they are, but they asked me to wait for the dyno chart so they can post it with their logo. Numbers are impressive.

Heres what else I learned today-

Auto - Stage 1 only ready for release
Manual - Stage 1 AND 2 will be ready for release

Manual trans and auto have different obstacles for install, mainly that the auto has the tranny cooler by the radiator that MAY need to be relocated. This presents a current issue to be solved for the stage 2 kits for autos.

Manual trans will have the stage 2 available from the outset, this is the turbo AND intercooler set up. This is not the set up they dyno'd last night, it was a stage 1 on an auto. It IS the unit we will be testing as all our test trucks are manual trans.

In short, our unit is in production right now and as soon as the pipes cool, its going into a box to ship. We are shooting for the weekend of the 12th. May end up the 19th as it has to be a saturday for us.

As of right now, we are expecting the Prodigy guys to fly to NJ to install with us. WHOA!

[UselessPickles]

If they're flying out for the install, why bother shipping the kit? They can just bring the kit as carry-on luggage, cradling the precious cargo in their laps to ensure timely and safe delivery. :)


Manual trans will have the stage 2 available from the outset, this is the turbo AND intercooler set up. This is not the set up they dyno'd last night, it was a stage 1 on an auto.

Have you been given any info about how much of an improvement to expect from stage 2? Or how long until they'll get official dyno results for stage 2?

[JeepLab]

If they're flying out for the install, why bother shipping the kit? They can just bring the kit as carry-on luggage, cradling the precious cargo in their laps to ensure timely and safe delivery. :)



Have you been given any info about how much of an improvement to expect from stage 2? Or how long until they'll get official dyno results for stage 2?

They are installing the first stage 2 right now on a second jeep. It will be tested this coming week, then we are next.

[UselessPickles]

It sure takes a long time to put a logo on a dyno chart...

[UselessPickles]

Just posted a few minutes ago on Prodigy's facebook page with the description "Good news...":

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/p180x540/1620754_611025205657783_2125229606_n.jpg

[JeepLab]

Here are the charts. -

This is a Stage 1, non-intercooled, setup.
Tests run at high RPM due to the fact it was an automatic transmission.
Torque over 340.

618

[JeepLab]

Here are the charts. -

This is a Stage 1, non-intercooled, setup.
Tests run at high RPM due to the fact it was an automatic transmission.
Torque over 340.

618

Second Chart

619

[Snarf77]

350 horsepower and torque is impressive. I can't wait to see the stage 2! Cool that air down a bit and who knows. How do they get air through the intercooler on a dyno? Just a big fan? Ambient air temperature at the test site would make all the difference.

[UselessPickles]

Stage 2 testing will be done with a manual transmission, so they'll be able to get a dyno chart covering the whole rpm range. Can't wait to see that.

[JeepLab]

Jesse's Girl is our planned Turbo Jeep.

Lets hope her tires dont melt on the dyno.

[UselessPickles]

A few extra tidbits of info in Prodigy's facebook post:



made 333rwhp and over 340rwtq on only 5lbs of boost with no intercooler! We will be able to graph the entire rpm window from 2k rpm next week when we put our 6spd on the Dyno. The auto Trans kept us from sampling the entire rpm window as it insisted on downshifting.

[UselessPickles]

And a little sample of the acceleration sounds: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=611075372319433&set=vb.210234079070233&type=2&theater

[Pznivy]

And a little sample of the acceleration sounds: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=611075372319433&set=vb.210234079070233&type=2&theater

That thing is crazy... Turbos make BIG torque early. That torque line is off the charts. The tune is going to be the challenge. Its going to be hard to get that kind of power to be stable and "good". Its going to be like putting a bridal on a missile.

[UselessPickles]

I'm not expecting this turbo to make big torque at low rpm. Notice that chart starts around 4000 rpm. I think this turbo is probably sized for big mid range torque. We have to wait for the dyno results of the stick shift to see what the low rpm range looks like.

[Yoinkers]

I'm not expecting this turbo to make big torque at low rpm. Notice that chart starts around 4000 rpm. I this turbo is probably sized for big mid range torque. We have to wait for the dyno results of the stick shift to see what the low rpm range looks like.

The line is steep but goes straight to 340 and then stays there. Dare I say this may be the new power mod to beat?

and I agree with pznivy, I dont know how they are going to get a handle on THIS much power.

And that chart is the WEAKEST option they will offer.

[UselessPickles]

Can't wait to hear JeepLabs initial impressions about driveability. I hope things work out for an install on the 12th :)

[GizmoGoat]

For the Auto guys, a concern of mine is under hood temps without the intercooler kit.? I'm of the opinion that intercooler will vital to the JK.

[UselessPickles]

I'd be willing to bet that the stage 1 kit is setup with lower boost to be safe without the intercooler. It's only 5 psi boost. I predict 8+ psi for stage 2.

[JeepLab]

For the Auto guys, a concern of mine is under hood temps without the intercooler kit.? I'm of the opinion that intercooler will vital to the JK.

Im an intercooler fan also... They look soooooo cool in the grill.

Screams - "Not Stock"

im less concerned about underhood temps, as the prodigy guys are working out custom blankets for the new unit.

[UselessPickles]

Btw. There was no visit to the drag strip yesterday. That may happen late next week now after they have a kit installed on a manual transmission jeep. The plan plan is to install stage 1 on it, get results, then upgrade to stage 2 and get results again.


JeepLab: are you on track to install on the 12th, or is it up in the air still?

[JeepLab]

Btw. There was no visit to the drag strip yesterday. That may happen late next week now after they have a kit installed on a manual transmission jeep. The plan plan is to install stage 1 on it, get results, then upgrade to stage 2 and get results again.


JeepLab: are you on track to install on the 12th, or is it up in the air still?

Nothing is set until the box arrives.

Also, its good to note, you do NOT want to rush a power mod like this one. The prodigy guys would be CRAZY to release before they are ready. The people with the first units will be the ones that the next thousand are listening to about power gain, drive ability, the pentastar's durability with the heat and boost created by this monster.

Weather or not these things sell, will depend on those people's experiences.

We know these guys know what they are doing, and we know they made huge power with the 3.8 which was a pig on its best day, so the cards are stacked that this mod will be groundbreaking, but rushing it is a mistake.

[Rexx19]

Nothing is set until the box arrives.

Also, its good to note, you do NOT want to rush a power mod like this one. The prodigy guys would be CRAZY to release before they are ready. The people with the first units will be the ones that the next thousand are listening to about power gain, drive ability, the pentastar's durability with the heat and boost created by this monster.

Weather or not these things sell, will depend on those people's experiences.

We know these guys know what they are doing, and we know they made huge power with the 3.8 which was a pig on its best day, so the cards are stacked that this mod will be groundbreaking, but rushing it is a mistake.

Mistake is right.

If these guys put out a unit that damages trucks, or melts something vital in the engine bay, they will be out of business. No one knows that better than the guys at prodigy, and Ripp and Magnuson. They have to double check and triple check, and then beat on it like no one who buys it will ever do.

The have to be sure. The alternative is a catastrophe.

We want it now, (im personally chomping at the bit), But as much as I want it now, and to see the testing and install, I also want it good as this is a mod that may find its way into my garage.

[UselessPickles]

Nothing is set until the box arrives.

Has the box begun its journey yet? Based on what you posted on Thursday, I would have expected it to be shipped out yesterday (unless there were other components aside from the pipes that are not ready to box/ship yet):


our unit is in production right now and as soon as the pipes cool, its going into a box to ship.

[GizmoGoat]

I agree with the rest of you that Prodigy should by no means rush this kit.
Ross- Do you know where Ripp mounts or relocates the transmission cooler on the 3.6 Autos?

[JeepLab]

I agree with the rest of you that Prodigy should by no means rush this kit.
Ross- Do you know where Ripp mounts or relocates the transmission cooler on the 3.6 Autos?

All our test trucks are manual trans. I sent a text, so ill let you know when i get an answer.

[Jkfletch7]

Do we know anything about the pricing of stage 1 yet?

[JeepLab]

Do we know anything about the pricing of stage 1 yet?

it should be around 6k

[JeepLab]

We are probably looking at the 19th to install the turbo. I just talked to dan about their own testing schedule and its pretty crazy.

They want to install stage one, test, dyno, then stage 2, test, and dyno.

Their plate is full.

[UselessPickles]

How extensive is this "testing" that they'll be doing? At this point I expect they would have been tuning all along with each iteration of prototype and would hope that the tune itself should be solid and thoroughly tested. If they are just doing final sanity-check testing and getting official dyno results, then it seems possible that they could have official results to release for stage 1 and 2 on the manual by the weekend (but not soon enough to fly out for the JeepLab install on the 12th).

Are they waiting for final stage 2 testing on their jeep before shipping your kit out?

Is there a planned date for pricing info, kit contents, etc., to become available? They said they would start taking pre-orders this week, so either pricing and other details have to come out soon, or the pre-ordering will have to be delayed.

[JeepLab]

How extensive is this "testing" that they'll be doing? At this point I expect they would have been tuning all along with each iteration of prototype and would hope that the tune itself should be solid and thoroughly tested. If they are just doing final sanity-check testing and getting official dyno results, then it seems possible that they could have official results to release for stage 1 and 2 on the manual by the weekend (but not soon enough to fly out for the JeepLab install on the 12th).

Are they waiting for final stage 2 testing on their jeep before shipping your kit out?

Is there a planned date for pricing info, kit contents, etc., to become available? They said they would start taking pre-orders this week, so either pricing and other details have to come out soon, or the pre-ordering will have to be delayed.

Im expecting the box next week with enough time to do an unboxing video and take a bunch of pics of the parts. Jesse will also want to see the instructions as its his powertrain warranty that we will be dropping in the paper shredder....LOL

[GizmoGoat]

So close yet so far. If I'd have to guess on a official time of release, I would have to say not for another month or two.

[JeepLab]

So close yet so far. If I'd have to guess on a official time of release, I would have to say not for another month or two.

When we see the unit in the box, I'll be able to tell you about how far out I think it really is. If the box is perfectly organized and the instructions are clear, its going to be quick.

If its unclear, it will be longer. Ill post pics as soon as I can. (maybe with a prediction)

[UselessPickles]

Huh huh, huh huh... he said "unit"...

http://epguides.com/BeavisandButthead/cast.jpg

[JeepLab]

Huh huh, huh huh... he said "unit"...

http://epguides.com/BeavisandButthead/cast.jpg

This is pretty funny. Pickles is usually such an ice cold machine of facts and figures. Good to see a joke. Bravo Pickles!

[Yoinkers]

Turbo, Turbo, TURBO!

[UselessPickles]

Turbo for my bunghole?


Pickles is usually such an ice cold machine of facts and figures.

This is what happens when I run out of facts and figures to talk about. I thrive on data. I think I'm related to this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj-qBUWOYfE

[DHewes]

Sitting here with a 2014 Rubicon X Unlimited with a whole 522 miles on it...ready to buy the Maggy and now I find this thread. I have no fingernails left after reading the 16 pages.

[Pznivy]

Sitting here with a 2014 Rubicon X Unlimited with a whole 522 miles on it...ready to buy the Maggy and now I find this thread. I have no fingernails left after reading the 16 pages.

16 pages and we havent even got the box yet! AAAAARRRRGHHH!

[UselessPickles]

Speaking of 16 pages...

I hope a new thread is created when the box IS received. This thread is mostly speculation, rumor, etc. Receiving and unboxing seems like a nice starting point for a new thread about installation, actual details and answers.

[Snarf77]

Speaking of 16 pages...

I hope a new thread is created when the box IS received. This thread is mostly speculation, rumor, etc. Receiving and unboxing seems like a nice starting point for a new thread about installation, actual details and answers.

Agreed. This is the build-up thread discussing the theoretical aspects and analyzing teaser pics. When the box comes, I think an actual build thread wouldn't be a bad idea. Lots of pictures off all aspects of installation.

[UselessPickles]

There's a rumor going around that there had been more delays, but that production of some pipes (or at least maybe a trial run) was going to happen on this past Saturday. I'm starting that rumor right now. Here's hoping that the pipe production is the last hurdle to shipping out JeepLab's kit, and that it went smoothly.

Prodigy also posted a baseline dyno chart from their 6spd manual Jeep on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform) this weekend:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/l/t1.0-9/10169392_615219445238359_1109263661981193771_n.jpg

It looks strange to me. The high torque numbers (200 ft-lbs, vs the typical ~170 ft-lbs) could be just a matter of different dynos I suppose. They have clarified that it was a 4th gear pull and that the OEM speed limiter prevented them from running it up to redline. This explains why the chart only goes up to about 5300 rpm. JeepLab ran into this same issue in their supercharger shootout thread.

What doesn't make sense to me is how the torque and power drop off in their chart. Even with the speed limiter, JeepLab's torque was nearly steady in the baseline run, and power kept climbing to the end. They haven't yet commented on that aspect of their chart.

[JeepLab]

There's a rumor going around that there had been more delays, but that production of some pipes (or at least maybe a trial run) was going to happen on this past Saturday. I'm starting that rumor right now. Here's hoping that the pipe production is the last hurdle to shipping out JeepLab's kit, and that it went smoothly.

Prodigy also posted a baseline dyno chart from their 6spd manual Jeep on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform) this weekend:

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/l/t1.0-9/10169392_615219445238359_1109263661981193771_n.jpg

It looks strange to me. The high torque numbers (200 ft-lbs, vs the typical ~170 ft-lbs) could be just a matter of different dynos I suppose. They have clarified that it was a 4th gear pull and that the OEM speed limiter prevented them from running it up to redline. This explains why the chart only goes up to about 5300 rpm. JeepLab ran into this same issue in their supercharger shootout thread.

What doesn't make sense to me is how the torque and power drop off in their chart. Even with the speed limiter, JeepLab's torque was nearly steady in the baseline run, and power kept climbing to the end. They haven't yet commented on that aspect of their chart.

Jess just reminded me that this weekend is easter also. I havent heard from prodigy for a confirmation that we are building this weekend.

[UselessPickles]

And Jeep Beach (http://www.jeepbeach.com/) is the following weekend. I know Prodigy intends to be there. Looks like we may have to wait until early May :(

[JeepLab]

I hope not. The suspense is truly killing me.

I think im developing a facial tick and my hair is falling out.

[UselessPickles]

Any news? I need to take a break from harassing them before they apply for a restraining order.

Last I heard was that they planned to install the turbo kit on a 6spd manual yesterday.

I also got this in response to my questions about the strange baseline dyno chart:


We will publish results of the dyno after the next pull with the Turbo Kit installed. More explanations at that point.

[JeepLab]

Any news? I need to take a break from harassing them before they apply for a restraining order.

Last I heard was that they planned to install the turbo kit on a 6spd manual yesterday.

I also got this in response to my questions about the strange baseline dyno chart:


The most recent correspondence i got stated that we were getting pushed into May.

Nothing solid and I'm trying to figure it out right now. EJS and Jeep Beach are killing me right now.

[UselessPickles]

Speaking of EJS, Jeep beach and turbos...

Fortec 4x4 put a Prodigy Turbo (the existing 3.8 version) on the Jeep that they are taking to those events: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151934985015356&set=a.394846540355.181829.159245265355&type=1&theater

They said it performed "flawlessly" on the first day at Moab: https://www.facebook.com/FortecJeep/posts/10151952471765356

This is the first time I've heard of someone seriously off-roading with a turbo kit, so we'll finally find out if a turbo is a bad idea for off-roading like most people claim it would be.

[DukeofJeep]

Glad to hear it seems to be working well in moab even if it is the 3.8.

[JeepLab]

Glad to hear it seems to be working well in moab even if it is the 3.8.

cant hide problems in Moab, when you are on the trail, there are 50 rigs, and everyone has a camera. Break down? no way to keep it a secret.

[UselessPickles]

Fortec posted that their week in Moab has come to an end, so I asked for thoughts on the turbo off-road:



we can't quite say we were all that impressed with the turbo off-road. In some cases, it actually works against us. The turbo spools at a higher rpm when what we actually need is lower end torque. However... We all agree that the turbo certainly got us to the trails much quicker! We are definitely impressed with it's on road performance. Dyno readings confirmed close to double stock HP.


I asked for clarification about how it "works against them":



it was just a matter of throttle control. When crawling, it's a fine line between keeping the rpms where you need them when negotiating an obstacle, and not have the turbo spool up and lurch you forward. It just takes a little getting used to. Overall, we were satisfied with the performance.


Just for context, this is the kind of off-roading and crawling they are talking about:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/1544617_10151954027720356_5457616663250713634_n.jp g

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10277249_10151954028565356_2352743904061008793_n.j pg


More here: https://www.facebook.com/FortecJeep/posts/10151956731850356

[UselessPickles]

Also, I'm really hoping that Prodigy will have more details to announce by mid next week. It must be high priority right now for them to have info to advertise their new kit(s) at Jeep Beach next week.

[Rexx19]

This thread is starting to lose me.

Come on already!

[Snarf77]

This thread is starting to lose me.

Come on already!

Hang in there. We're pretty much freaked out waiting for this to happen as well, but worrying doesn't make the turbo arrive any faster! Its been a crazy few weeks with Jeep events. Fortunately, they do come to a relative calm in the next few weeks. Meanwhile, we'll continue to prepare as best we can.

[UselessPickles]

Sounds like things are on the brink of completion, but Jeep Beach is delaying some things until next week. There may be some new info published in the next few days, though.

I got an answer about ceramic coating the exhaust pipes: "We are not planning on offering this as an option at this point. Maybe in the future, but will be expensive."

Looks like I'll have to take the pipes to a local coating shop for a quote after I get my kit. I was hoping to have a quote for coating BEFORE ordering so I could make appropriate decisions. I might be able to afford only stage 1 + coating and have to save up for stage 2 later. I guess I'll have to start with stage 1, get a quote for coating, then if I can afford the stage 2 upgrade up front still, then order the stage 2 upgrade while pipes are getting coated. Having the turbo in-hand potentially for weeks while waiting for coating and/or a second shipment will be painful.

Still waiting for pricing of the stage 1 and 2 kits too. Too many unknowns for me to have any idea what I'll be able to afford right now.

[UselessPickles]

Just talked to Prodigy. Based on their testing, they feel that ceramic coating is unnecessary and would not be worth the cost if the main goal is just to control heat.

Also got some retail pricing for the manual transmission kits. He asked what year before giving prices, so all I know for sure is that these prices are valid for a 2013 with manual transmission.
(sorry, didn't ask about automatic, but he did mention in an earlier conversation that automatic will cost more)

Stage 1:
No intercooler
5psi boost
$5099

Stage 2:
Intercooler
9psi boost
$6099

Stage 3:
MORE BOOST (no details yet)
$7099


Turbo blanket: $179

[JeepLab]

Here is a shot of the latest install.

696

[UselessPickles]

That's a PRODUCTION stage 1 kit on a manual transmission jeep :). No more prototype.

[JeepLab]

That's a PRODUCTION stage 1 kit on a manual transmission jeep :). No more prototype.

Here's some more production stuff

697

[JeepLab]

other side of the brochure

698

[JeepLab]

the pile of gear they send isn't terribly intimidating from the bottom of the second picture. Only one way to find out.

[Rango]

the pile of gear they send isn't terribly intimidating from the bottom of the second picture. Only one way to find out.

Hey folks, I am the newbie on this blog. I have really enjoyed learning about the SC options and was just about to pull the trigger on a Magnuson for my 2014 JKU Rubicon....then I saw this! I wanted to add some additional color on this turbo. I had a good conversation this morning with Dan from Prodigy as he was driving down to Jeep Beach and he said that they should be shipping Stage 1 in the next 10-12 days. He said that they were taking deposits for those wanting to be ahead in the shipping que (I added my name to that list). In terms of pricing for the 3.6 auto, he said that Stage 1 would run $4999.00 and that he would sell Stage 2 when it becomes available for additional $1000.00. He also said that his crew was stoked to be coming to help the folks at JeepLab install this beauty with a full production video.

Can't wait to see the install!!

Keep up the great work Ross!

[UselessPickles]

they should be shipping Stage 1 in the next 10-12 days.

The brochure says "now shipping stage 1".

It also says stage 1 is 7psi, but we previously heard it was 5psi.

Hooray for consistency.

I'm also still confused by the baseline stock dyno chart they are using.

[JeepLab]

The brochure says "now shipping stage 1".

I posted the brochure before they planned to release it. They are defiantly not shipping stage one right now, but should be soon.

[UselessPickles]

Brochure says that the turbo is ceramic coated (guessing the turbine housing; the black part). That's cool.

I still want to get some clarification on the standard vs. polished compressor housing. I was told that the only benefit is appearance, but the polished housing also has anti-surge ports. The non-polished turbo pictured in the brochure does NOT have anti-surge ports. That must have some effect on performance. Not absolute peak power numbers, but it should have some effect on how it builds boost or retains spool under certain conditions that would have some effect on responsiveness.

I actually prefer the looks of the non-polished compressor, but would pay extra for the polished/ported housing if it improves throttle response.

[Rango]

I posted the brochure before they planned to release it. They are defiantly not shipping stage one right now, but should be soon.
That is correct according to Dan at Prodigy. He said that they had actually just dropped off the order for the brochures at the printer as they were headed down to Daytona. One other piece of info Dan gave me was some numbers on the dyno for the automatic. He said that HP rose from 169 to 333 at the wheels and torque increased to 342. I did not write down the stock torque but we all know it is MUCH lower!

[UselessPickles]

Stage 1 kit is listed for sale on Prodigy's website now: http://www.prodigyperformance.com/product-p/pro-2001.htm

[DHewes]

The Stage 1 kit listed does not specify manual or auto. Is it the same kit until you get to the intercooler (Stage 2)?

[UselessPickles]

That seems like a reasonable assumption at this point. The only manual/automatic difference we've heard about is that the automatic will require a trans cooler relocation and/or a custom intercooler.

Then again, I would never order a big ticket item like this online based on assumptions. Better to call and get answers before ordering.

[Rango]

That seems like a reasonable assumption at this point. The only manual/automatic difference we've heard about is that the automatic will require a trans cooler relocation and/or a custom intercooler.

Then again, I would never order a big ticket item like this online based on assumptions. Better to call and get answers before ordering.

Just put a deposit on a Stage 1 kit. Here are the numbers directly from Dan via email.

Turbo Kit $4999.99
Auto Trans Kit $159.99
Turbo Blanket $179.99 (Optional, but highly recommended)
Total Cost for Stage 1 (Auto) with blanket = $5339.97

They are taking $2500 deposits on their website to get your name in the que. Got to www.prodigyperformance.com and search for "Prodigy Performance Deposit". You will then be able to put a deposit of $2500 down.

Dan's email stated they plan to ship the first units beginning the week of May 4th.:cool:

[UselessPickles]

From Prodigy's facebook:

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/10156131_621613957932241_2934458126556097595_n.jpg


Don't miss this deal #turbojeep for 07-11 Stage 1 #gobig $3995 today through Monday

[UselessPickles]

Wow, I need to learn to read better. That special price is for the 3.8 jeep only (07-11). Oops.

[UselessPickles]

Are they suddenly way ahead of schedule on shipping? Posted on Facebook this morning:



2012-2013 Here we go! ‪#‎turbojeep‬ 3.6L Pentastar kits now shipping! $4995 ‪#‎gobig‬



Here's some pictures:

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10174822_622027604557543_8031546230356181953_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10171183_622027634557540_1099648677412092032_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10260021_622024491224521_9176752982823124529_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10156133_622024477891189_8253165319770283556_n.jpg

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/264/200/acb.jpg



Can't wait to see JeepLab's dyno results :)

I don't quite trust Prodigy's dyno charts, especially their stock baseline. I still haven't gotten any explanation of why it is so different (both in shape and numbers) than all other stock wrangler dyno charts. Taken at face value, their dyno chart fails to back up their claim of "huge low end power", found on the first page of the brochure. Best thing to do now is have someone else (JeepLab) attempt to independently reproduce/verify results (science!).

[GizmoGoat]

Just a quick heads up, sts turbo are about to release their kit. The intriguing part is it's a oil less turbo. Anyways, just saying you might want to check that out as another option.

[UselessPickles]

Here's a few more tidbits of info...

Catalytic converters are completely removed and replaced with pipe during the install. This is probably a major contributor to the turbo and exhaust piping not causing any under-hood heat issues. For states that require a catalytic converter, they will likely be providing an optional catalytic converter upgrade at some point in the future. For California people, there's no current effort to get CARB approval. It's "intended for off-road use" (wink, wink).

Turbo blankets are available in either matte black, or a "titanium" color (goldish color with a carbon-fiber-like pattern).

Air filters available in red or blue.

You can see the blanket and filter color options in the photos in my previous post.

Blow-off valve? Wes (the owner, tech guru at prodigy) has experience designing various performance systems, including 1000+ hp performance cars. For the Wrangler turbo application in particular, he sees no significant improvement in anything by adding a BOV. I think this is similar to the ceramic coating issue: a BOV would technically have some amount of benefit, but it's not necessary for this application and not worth the cost. I've seen opinions in both directions while trying to research online (no BOV is ok for low boost systems, or MUST ALWAYS HAVE A BOV NO MATTER WHAT!!!). I'm not an expert, so I'll have to trust Wes' judgment on this.

They're doing some more photo shoots this week to get some final photos for their installation guide. The current plan is to have it done by the end of the week.

Stage 1 kits are expected to start shipping out at the end of next week. Their facebook post of the brochure stating "stage 1 now shipping" seems to be a incorrect :(

Finally, there's a rumor that May 10th will be an exciting date.

[UselessPickles]

I'm failing to follow my own advice of waiting to see the comparisons. I am weak. I placed my order today. These next couple weeks will be agonizing. I'm hoping for a May 17th install date.

Also...

JEEPLAB! Clear out your private messages (your inbox is full). Ross, I sent you an email at your jeeplab.com address. Please check.

[DHewes]

What exhaust are you running with this? Stock?

[UselessPickles]

Who is "you"?

Only Prodigy has kits installed and running right now. As far as I know, the 2 test vehicles have stock exhaust.

The system is tuned out-of-the-box for stock exhaust.

I will be running stock exhaust.

I asked a bit about the effects of running aftermarket freer-flowing exhaust. Free-flowing exhaust would likely improve performance some amount. I didn't get a solid answer about whether it would require additional tuning. Sounds like it would just require some data logging, have Prodigy review it and decide whether fine tuning is necessary. Prodigy will generally do email data-log tuning for free during a reasonable time period after the purchase if there's a problem with the original tune, or if you have a non-stock configuration that requires minor tweaking. He said if it turned into something that requires significant testing/tuning, then they would have to start charging for time (presumably applies only to non-stock setups, or requests for fine-tuning after warranty period).

[JeepLab]

Who is "you"?

Only Prodigy has kits installed and running right now. As far as I know, the 2 test vehicles have stock exhaust.

The system is tuned out-of-the-box for stock exhaust.

I will be running stock exhaust.

I asked a bit about the effects of running aftermarket freer-flowing exhaust. Free-flowing exhaust would likely improve performance some amount. I didn't get a solid answer about whether it would require additional tuning. Sounds like it would just require some data logging, have Prodigy review it and decide whether fine tuning is necessary. Prodigy will generally do email data-log tuning for free during a reasonable time period after the purchase if there's a problem with the original tune, or if you have a non-stock configuration that requires minor tweaking. He said if it turned into something that requires significant testing/tuning, then they would have to start charging for time (presumably applies only to non-stock setups, or requests for fine-tuning after warranty period).

Do not change your exhaust until you get the unit installed. Aftermarket exhausts can be counter productive if the turbo is tuned for specific back pressure.

[UselessPickles]

Prodigy said that it should not be a problem as long as the exhaust has LESS back pressure than the stock exhaust, which is most likely to be true for aftermarket exhaust. Since I don't have a specific exhaust in mind, it was all theoretical discussion. If you either already have aftermarket exhaust, or would like aftermarket exhaust, I suggest you talk to Wes at Prodigy about it before making any commitments.

[UselessPickles]

Just a quick heads up, sts turbo are about to release their kit. The intriguing part is it's a oil less turbo. Anyways, just saying you might want to check that out as another option.

I had a hard time finding info about this because the STS blog that contains info about it is under construction now. Luckily, Google has a cached copy of it.

Cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-jeep-wrangler-3-6l-v6/
Actual link: http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-jeep-wrangler-3-6l-v6/

The oil-less turbo being marketed as "less maintenance" and "no dealing with oil" seems funny to me. You have to manually re-grease the bearing occasionally. With Prodigy's oiled turbo, it uses your engine oil via an already available pressurized oil port on the engine. Just change your engine oil as usual. Where is this "dealing with oil" that you avoid with an oil-less turbo?

The "cooler intake temps" claim is also funny. The stock air box is used, so it does not draw in any cooler air. The long air intake piping runs near the engine and near exhaust pipes in some places. The air is then compressed (heat added) by the turbo, and there is no intercooler to cool it down. What is their baseline comparison they use to claim that you'll get "cooler" intake temps? I think they just copied/pasted from marketing for their other systems that have a basic cone filter intake near the turbo under the vehicle, because on those systems, they really are cold air intakes.

The fact that the "tuning package" is an upgrade option (Diablosport tuner, MAP sensor, injectors) kinda worries me. Sounds like it might not come out-of-the-box tuned and ready to drive. That will require some confirmation with STS.

Then there's the general layout of the system. Location of the turbo where it can easily be dunked in water, snagged by things, dragged through mud. And the miles of intake piping. That can't be good for turbo lag.

http://ststurbo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Picture1.jpg

http://ststurbo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Picture3.jpg


The best feature I see about this system is that the stock catalytic converters are retained.


Only one way to find out how it really compares. I think JeepLab needs to expand their shootout comparison to include the STS turbo :)

[DHewes]

Pickles -

Thanks for the advice on the exhaust. I wasn't sure what they were using and if I needed to swap out to get the best performance.

As far as the STS, that mounting location looks like a great place to get some rock rash. They knew this was a Jeep, right? I suspect their marketing is like it exists in many other fields. I am in infosec and just sat through a two hour meeting with a firewall vendor who made claim after claim of "cutting edge technologies" that actually already exist in the vendor we have been using for a decade and are looking to upgrade. But hey Palo Alto...if you think Deep Packet Inspection is new, the 90's are calling and want their tech back. Marketing sells what they are put in front of them - rarely with any accuracy.

You are 100% right - until there is a non-biased bake-off, trust no one.

[Gunner]

A lot of us are armored up under there. I don't know how that would work with all the heat trapped inside the plates on a hot day on a desert crawl.

[Anotheruserid]

I have torn two rear driveshafts in half and ripped my evap canister clean off... Not sure i want to bolt up my $5000 turbo in roughly the same location:confused:

Perhaps this is for the more street friendly JK owners out there.

[JeepLab]

I had a hard time finding info about this because the STS blog that contains info about it is under construction now. Luckily, Google has a cached copy of it.

Cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-jeep-wrangler-3-6l-v6/
Actual link: http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-jeep-wrangler-3-6l-v6/

The oil-less turbo being marketed as "less maintenance" and "no dealing with oil" seems funny to me. You have to manually re-grease the bearing occasionally. With Prodigy's oiled turbo, it uses your engine oil via an already available pressurized oil port on the engine. Just change your engine oil as usual. Where is this "dealing with oil" that you avoid with an oil-less turbo?

The "cooler intake temps" claim is also funny. The stock air box is used, so it does not draw in any cooler air. The long air intake piping runs near the engine and near exhaust pipes in some places. The air is then compressed (heat added) by the turbo, and there is no intercooler to cool it down. What is their baseline comparison they use to claim that you'll get "cooler" intake temps? I think they just copied/pasted from marketing for their other systems that have a basic cone filter intake near the turbo under the vehicle, because on those systems, they really are cold air intakes.

The fact that the "tuning package" is an upgrade option (Diablosport tuner, MAP sensor, injectors) kinda worries me. Sounds like it might not come out-of-the-box tuned and ready to drive. That will require some confirmation with STS.

Then there's the general layout of the system. Location of the turbo where it can easily be dunked in water, snagged by things, dragged through mud. And the miles of intake piping. That can't be good for turbo lag.

http://ststurbo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Picture1.jpg

http://ststurbo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Picture3.jpg


The best feature I see about this system is that the stock catalytic converters are retained.


Only one way to find out how it really compares. I think JeepLab needs to expand their shootout comparison to include the STS turbo :)

This is an intricate system. Its sooo cool how they install the turbo in a remote location. My question is, isnt pushing the air that long of a distance, reducing the psi at the intake?

The idea is cool Im less concerned about hitting a rock with it. It would have to be a jagged rock and you'd have to land on it.

[DHewes]

So for the Prodigy kit, this is the $159 option for auto transmission guys?

http://www.prodigyperformance.com/product-p/pro-2050.htm

[UselessPickles]

My question is, isnt pushing the air that long of a distance, reducing the psi at the intake?

That's the generalization. Longer pipe between the compressor and the engine intake means lower pressure and more lag. I've seen mixed reports/opinions about STS remote-mount turbo systems. Some people say lag is noticeably worse than front-mounted turbos (like the Prodigy), others say that STS does a good job of choosing turbo size and pipe size to make lag not an issue.

I've read elsewhere that the length of exhaust pipe between the engine and the turbine has a bigger impact on lag. I'm pretty sure the Prodigy exhaust piping is quite a bit shorter than the STS.

I think only a head-to-head Prodigy vs STS comparison can answer this conclusively *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*


So for the Prodigy kit, this is the $159 option for auto transmission guys?

http://www.prodigyperformance.com/product-p/pro-2050.htm

That's it. The website is not the best, and they don't seem to list all options on the website (air filter color, turbo blanket color, polished turbo, etc.), so I highly recommend calling and talking to them to get full details of what's available if you are interested in purchasing.

[DHewes]

I am absolutely purchasing but want to wait for the Stage 2 kit with the intercooler for my auto equipped JKU. (Ain't nobody got time to shift AND text)

[UselessPickles]

If you purchase a stage 1 kit, they will let you upgrade to stage 2 when available for exactly the price difference between stage 1 and 2 (for a limited time). So you can enjoy stage 1 while waiting for stage 2 with no financial penalty :) Call to discuss details of this deal just to be sure it will work with the longer timeline of the stage 2 kit for automatic trans.

[UselessPickles]

Stage 1 kits are not going to ship out next week :(

They had to make a minor modification to the exhaust cross-over pipe, so they have to wait for new production pipes to be made. The goal is now to start shipping early in the week of the 12th.

The intercooler for stage 2 is still getting some design refinement. We may hear more about stage 2 late next week.

I'm also getting some complete specs on the turbo itself. It's not an off-the-shelf stock turbo from Garrett, so it has been specifically configured for this application :)

[UselessPickles]

How about some pictures of exhaust pipes?

Here's where the Prodigy downpipe connects back up with the stock exhaust system (driver side):

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/exhaust01.jpg

This is the downpipe coming down from the front of the engine (driver side). You can also see a glimpse of the driver side head pipe (right edge of photo) that drops down and crosses over to the passenger side.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/exhaust02.jpg

And here's the cross-over pipe viewed from the passenger side, connecting up with passenger side head pipe:

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/jeep/prodigy_turbo/exhaust03.jpg

[Anotheruserid]

I have a forced induction boner:)

[JeepLab]

I have a forced induction boner:)

I couldnt have said it better. Im pretty sure we all do.

[UselessPickles]

Prodigy is still on track to start shipping stage 1 kits early next week. Hopefully there's no more delays. It's still possible that I could have mine in time to install on May 17th :)

I'm trying hard to not go insane from the wait...

[UselessPickles]

Some info about the turbo itself...

It's based on the Garrett "T04S" (part# 465981-0002): http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TP&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-039&Category_Code

It has a proprietary (trade secret) configuration specifically for use in the Prodigy kit. It's unknown whether the proprietary configuration is based on standard options, or whether it is a completely unique non-standard configuration.

Turbo part numbers are a mystery to me. Trying to search for more info on "T04S" or "465981-0002" seems to lead me to somewhat similar but different turbos, none of them with full specs.

[UselessPickles]

Slow week for Prodigy news, but here's something. The startup splash screen on the pre-loaded Diablosport InTune:

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t31.0-8/10257224_628330293927274_274697550602589498_o.jpg
link: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform/posts/628332513927052

[Gunner]

One thing about turbos is that at small throttle openings they are very benign. It requires some skinny pedal to make boost. A Maggie would provide the best small throttle response of the three I would guess. My experience is a bit dated but my 10-71 big blocks would tear your head off on ten pounds of boost with just a tap of the throttle. My turbos were not so immediate but once they came on boost a V6 Buick would destroy the big block.

[UselessPickles]

Thanks to electronically controlled throttle, part of the turbo's tune could include an optimized throttle map for consistent throttle feel. I do expect that the turbo will still have a "softer" throttle feel due to lag. I wonder if that could actually end up being a benefit (reduced shock to the drivetrain when hitting the throttle).

This is the kind of thing that JeepLab will be able to comment on after some back-to-back comparison :)

[Gunner]

I'm still stuck till a CARB version for an Auto comes up.

[UselessPickles]

Don't hold your breath for a CARB approved version, but do call and ask about it. If enough people call and ask for it, then maybe they will see a large enough California market to make it worthwhile to invest in creating a CARB approved version.


Any news on when the JeepLab install might happen?

[UselessPickles]

As of this morning, the pipe supplier is "hoping to have them done this week". Sounds like now the best case scenario is that stage 1 kits will ship at the end of this week, or early next week. If mine arrives early/mid-week next week, I might take a day off work to avoid suffering through the rest of the week knowing that a turbo kit is sitting at home waiting for the weekend.

I also confirmed that stage 2 installation/testing on Prodigy's test Jeep is on hold until the new production pipes come in.

[UselessPickles]

Next Tuesday is the projected shipping date now. Fingers crossed for a Memorial Day weekend install.

[Snarf77]

Next Tuesday is the projected shipping date now. Fingers crossed for a Memorial Day weekend install.

My fingers AND toes are crossed. Its sure to happen. :)

[UselessPickles]

Looks like I misunderstood. No kits shipping today. No Memorial Day weekend installation.

From what I understand now, today they got a production sample of the new design of pipe they altered. They are testing/reviewing the fitment of the new pipe today. If everything is good with the new pipe, then a production run will be started. There will also be some final testing/confirmation of the tune with the new pipe. The end of this week is the earliest that kits could start shipping if everything goes according to plan now.

"Again, we want to ensure that you get the best possible product we can produce. We will not send out anything and let our customers end up doing the QC work for us and have to respond to their issues. I hope you can appreciate our commitment to quality above timeliness. We only get one chance to make a first impression and we’ll get it right!"

[UselessPickles]

I have an update. In an effort to not jinx it, I will simply not share any information!

[UselessPickles]

FYI: the stage 1 turbo kit is now listed "on sale" on Prodigy's website for $4799: http://www.prodigyperformance.com/product-p/pro-2001.htm

If you placed an order already for $4995 (or was it $4999?), it only seems fair that they would retroactively price match, seeing that they haven't shipped out any orders yet.

[JeepLab]

FYI: the stage 1 turbo kit is now listed "on sale" on Prodigy's website for $4799: http://www.prodigyperformance.com/product-p/pro-2001.htm

If you placed an order already for $4995 (or was it $4999?), it only seems fair that they would retroactively price match, seeing that they haven't shipped out any orders yet.

Did you crowbar a shipping date?

[UselessPickles]

Shipping was supposed to happen today, or possibly even yesterday. Yesterday evening, I asked if everything was still going according to plan, and I was told, "Your unit will FINALLY ship tomorrow!"

I haven't heard anything today. I'll probably give them a call tomorrow afternoon if I haven't received an email yet.

[Snarf77]

Shipping was supposed to happen today, or possibly even yesterday. Yesterday evening, I asked if everything was still going according to plan, and I was told, "Your unit will FINALLY ship tomorrow!"

I haven't heard anything today. I'll probably give them a call tomorrow afternoon if I haven't received an email yet.

I just want to see one of these potentially amazing systems get installed with step-by-step insight from a Jeep enthusiast. SO excited..so hate waiting!

[Gunner]

Shipping was supposed to happen today, or possibly even yesterday. Yesterday evening, I asked if everything was still going according to plan, and I was told, "Your unit will FINALLY ship tomorrow!"

I haven't heard anything today. I'll probably give them a call tomorrow afternoon if I haven't received an email yet.

Yours is a stick isn't it?

[UselessPickles]

so hate waiting!

If good things come to those who wait, then this is sure to be awesome. I just planned a day trip to an ORV park on Father's day. I need to have this turbo delivered next week if there's any hope of me getting it installed before the trip. All this anticipation and waiting makes it tough to focus at work :(

Phone call went straight to voicemail. Hopefully I'll get a return call or email this afternoon.


Yours is a stick isn't it?

Yup. I have a bare-bones 2-door sport with manual transmission and soft top. A/C is the only option I have. This should result in a nice power:weight ratio :)

The kits that are supposedly ready to start shipping now are stage 1 kits only. Stage 2 testing/development (for both manual and auto trans) was put on hold when they discovered that they needed to modify the pipe design a bit. I'd guess that it's still on hold as they work on getting stage 1 production and shipping going smoothly.

[UselessPickles]

Got a return call just now. The hold-up was a shipment of MAP sensor adapters that they were supposed to receive on Tuesday, but didn't arrive until this morning.

My turbo kit is all boxed up and heading to FedEx soon! I should get an email with tracking number tonight. I'm trying to not get too excited until I actually have a tracking number with a delivery date, but I think it might finally be safe to say that it's finally coming! I suspect delivery will happen next Tuesday.

I'll start a new thread for my installation when I get the box, starting with some unboxing pics :)

If there is any stealing of thunder from JeepLab's own (future) installation thread, I apologize. It's not the intent. I hope to provide insight from a different viewpoint: just a guy with basic tools and a dirty asphalt driveway as my workshop. No vehicle lift or air tools. This is gonna be cool...

[UselessPickles]

Dan at Prodigy personally dropped off my package at FedEx and sent me photographic proof of the FedEx-labeled boxes :)
Just got the tracking info email from FedEx too. No estimated delivery date yet.

2 packages: 64lbs and 22lbs.

[2me]

Let us know the due date!
I can't wait to see the up boxing and install pics.

[UselessPickles]

Estimated delivery :
Tues 6/03/2014

I'll plan on getting started Tuesday evening and taking Wednesday off work to finish installation and do some test driving :)

Now we just need JeepLab to get news about when their install will happen...

[Anotheruserid]

I'm gonna take Wednesday off just to follow this thread:rolleyes: Good luck pickles. Hope it's everything you've been waiting for. I'm certain there are plenty of guys waiting on the sidelines for these systems to shake themselves out. I know I am, glad someone else has the balls to fall on the sword.

[UselessPickles]

Prodigy has officially announced that stage 1 kits are ready to ship: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform/posts/640826449344325

I'm starting to get worried that I might have to postpone my install. As of now, there's a 50% chance of rain on Wednesday, and I need dry weather to do the install in my driveway (no room in the garage).

[Snarf77]

Prodigy has officially announced that stage 1 kits are ready to ship: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform/posts/640826449344325

I'm starting to get worried that I might have to postpone my install. As of now, there's a 50% chance of rain on Wednesday, and I need dry weather to do the install in my driveway (no room in the garage).

Don't you just love that about garages? There IS the option of buying one of those pop-up portable garages from harbor freight! I've done that before to get a full front/rear brake job done during a snow storm at my garageless house.

[UselessPickles]

Good news: Turbo kit arrived today.

Bad news: Weather forecast for tomorrow doesn't look good, so I'm postponing my install until Thursday.

Consolation: This gives me more time to review the contents of the kit, go shopping for supplies, and mentally prepare for installation.

Unpacking happens tonight after work. I'll start a new thread and post some pictures tonight :)

[JeepLab]

good news: Turbo kit arrived today.

Bad news: Weather forecast for tomorrow doesn't look good, so i'm postponing my install until thursday.

Consolation: This gives me more time to review the contents of the kit, go shopping for supplies, and mentally prepare for installation.

Unpacking happens tonight after work. I'll start a new thread and post some pictures tonight :)

pics man! For god sakes pics!

[UselessPickles]

Lol... the kit arrived just as I was about to head to work this morning. I only had time to open one box so far. I suppose I can share a few pics now and the rest later after I finish unboxing it.

Nice discreet packaging:

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10365714_10204054466511976_152077610313150245_n.jp g


The kids are almost as excited as me!

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10356186_876054192411278_3927133069818001218_n.jpg


You'll just have to wait for more pics in the new thread I'll create tonight.

[UselessPickles]

Ok, here it is: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?131-Prodigy-Performance-3-6-Turbo-DIY-Install

[Snarf77]

Is it time yet to revive this thread since you have tracking info? Maybe an update on shipping status! E.g... "right now its in the fedex facility in Wichita!"

[UselessPickles]

Sneak peek of the stage 2 intercooler:

https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperform/photos/a.225539780872996.51616.210234079070233/649624935131143/?type=1

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/10339446_649624935131143_7372226718945637168_o.jpg

[UselessPickles]

That intercooler definitely needs some of this: http://www.jegs.com/i/UNKNOWN/352/10040Z/10002/-1?CT=999

832


I must retain my sleeper look!

[JeepLab]

That intercooler definitely needs some of this: http://www.jegs.com/i/UNKNOWN/352/10040Z/10002/-1?CT=999

832


I must retain my sleeper look!

Pickles, pick a thread and stick to it! LOL