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  • OMG...Prodigy...TURBO!

    Just got the news..... Prodigy wants to throw its hat in the ring with the two killer superchargers that we are testing head to head right now. To give you an idea of what that means, Prodigy's turbo kit for the 3.8 Jeep wrangler engine made as much power as the Supercharged Pentastars make....on paper.

    Here is the dyno chart they post on their website. 350 wheel horse power, and 400 torque. Sounds too good to be true.



    A big note with RIPP and Magnuson, the supercharger gurus, is drivability. Big power is easy, just cram more air in, but does the truck drive correctly on and off road? We are going to find out.

    Particularly off road, where you don't want BURSTS of power. You want an even, predictable gathering of power as you creep and crawl thru difficult terrain. You don't want to be hanging off a rock and have a power burst, it could be catastrophic. Also, the components between the engine and the ground will all be under more strain. So throttle response is paramount.

    Can these guys get a beast like this under control? We'll tell you.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: OMG...Prodigy...TURBO! started by JeepLab View original post
    Comments 251 Comments
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Who is "you"?

      Only Prodigy has kits installed and running right now. As far as I know, the 2 test vehicles have stock exhaust.

      The system is tuned out-of-the-box for stock exhaust.

      I will be running stock exhaust.

      I asked a bit about the effects of running aftermarket freer-flowing exhaust. Free-flowing exhaust would likely improve performance some amount. I didn't get a solid answer about whether it would require additional tuning. Sounds like it would just require some data logging, have Prodigy review it and decide whether fine tuning is necessary. Prodigy will generally do email data-log tuning for free during a reasonable time period after the purchase if there's a problem with the original tune, or if you have a non-stock configuration that requires minor tweaking. He said if it turned into something that requires significant testing/tuning, then they would have to start charging for time (presumably applies only to non-stock setups, or requests for fine-tuning after warranty period).
    1. JeepLab's Avatar
      JeepLab -
      Quote Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
      Who is "you"?

      Only Prodigy has kits installed and running right now. As far as I know, the 2 test vehicles have stock exhaust.

      The system is tuned out-of-the-box for stock exhaust.

      I will be running stock exhaust.

      I asked a bit about the effects of running aftermarket freer-flowing exhaust. Free-flowing exhaust would likely improve performance some amount. I didn't get a solid answer about whether it would require additional tuning. Sounds like it would just require some data logging, have Prodigy review it and decide whether fine tuning is necessary. Prodigy will generally do email data-log tuning for free during a reasonable time period after the purchase if there's a problem with the original tune, or if you have a non-stock configuration that requires minor tweaking. He said if it turned into something that requires significant testing/tuning, then they would have to start charging for time (presumably applies only to non-stock setups, or requests for fine-tuning after warranty period).
      Do not change your exhaust until you get the unit installed. Aftermarket exhausts can be counter productive if the turbo is tuned for specific back pressure.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Prodigy said that it should not be a problem as long as the exhaust has LESS back pressure than the stock exhaust, which is most likely to be true for aftermarket exhaust. Since I don't have a specific exhaust in mind, it was all theoretical discussion. If you either already have aftermarket exhaust, or would like aftermarket exhaust, I suggest you talk to Wes at Prodigy about it before making any commitments.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Quote Originally Posted by GizmoGoat View Post
      Just a quick heads up, sts turbo are about to release their kit. The intriguing part is it's a oil less turbo. Anyways, just saying you might want to check that out as another option.
      I had a hard time finding info about this because the STS blog that contains info about it is under construction now. Luckily, Google has a cached copy of it.

      Cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ngler-3-6l-v6/
      Actual link: http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-j...ngler-3-6l-v6/

      The oil-less turbo being marketed as "less maintenance" and "no dealing with oil" seems funny to me. You have to manually re-grease the bearing occasionally. With Prodigy's oiled turbo, it uses your engine oil via an already available pressurized oil port on the engine. Just change your engine oil as usual. Where is this "dealing with oil" that you avoid with an oil-less turbo?

      The "cooler intake temps" claim is also funny. The stock air box is used, so it does not draw in any cooler air. The long air intake piping runs near the engine and near exhaust pipes in some places. The air is then compressed (heat added) by the turbo, and there is no intercooler to cool it down. What is their baseline comparison they use to claim that you'll get "cooler" intake temps? I think they just copied/pasted from marketing for their other systems that have a basic cone filter intake near the turbo under the vehicle, because on those systems, they really are cold air intakes.

      The fact that the "tuning package" is an upgrade option (Diablosport tuner, MAP sensor, injectors) kinda worries me. Sounds like it might not come out-of-the-box tuned and ready to drive. That will require some confirmation with STS.

      Then there's the general layout of the system. Location of the turbo where it can easily be dunked in water, snagged by things, dragged through mud. And the miles of intake piping. That can't be good for turbo lag.






      The best feature I see about this system is that the stock catalytic converters are retained.


      Only one way to find out how it really compares. I think JeepLab needs to expand their shootout comparison to include the STS turbo
    1. DHewes's Avatar
      DHewes -
      Pickles -

      Thanks for the advice on the exhaust. I wasn't sure what they were using and if I needed to swap out to get the best performance.

      As far as the STS, that mounting location looks like a great place to get some rock rash. They knew this was a Jeep, right? I suspect their marketing is like it exists in many other fields. I am in infosec and just sat through a two hour meeting with a firewall vendor who made claim after claim of "cutting edge technologies" that actually already exist in the vendor we have been using for a decade and are looking to upgrade. But hey Palo Alto...if you think Deep Packet Inspection is new, the 90's are calling and want their tech back. Marketing sells what they are put in front of them - rarely with any accuracy.

      You are 100% right - until there is a non-biased bake-off, trust no one.
    1. Gunner's Avatar
      Gunner -
      A lot of us are armored up under there. I don't know how that would work with all the heat trapped inside the plates on a hot day on a desert crawl.
    1. Anotheruserid's Avatar
      Anotheruserid -
      I have torn two rear driveshafts in half and ripped my evap canister clean off... Not sure i want to bolt up my $5000 turbo in roughly the same location

      Perhaps this is for the more street friendly JK owners out there.
    1. JeepLab's Avatar
      JeepLab -
      Quote Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
      I had a hard time finding info about this because the STS blog that contains info about it is under construction now. Luckily, Google has a cached copy of it.

      Cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ngler-3-6l-v6/
      Actual link: http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-j...ngler-3-6l-v6/

      The oil-less turbo being marketed as "less maintenance" and "no dealing with oil" seems funny to me. You have to manually re-grease the bearing occasionally. With Prodigy's oiled turbo, it uses your engine oil via an already available pressurized oil port on the engine. Just change your engine oil as usual. Where is this "dealing with oil" that you avoid with an oil-less turbo?

      The "cooler intake temps" claim is also funny. The stock air box is used, so it does not draw in any cooler air. The long air intake piping runs near the engine and near exhaust pipes in some places. The air is then compressed (heat added) by the turbo, and there is no intercooler to cool it down. What is their baseline comparison they use to claim that you'll get "cooler" intake temps? I think they just copied/pasted from marketing for their other systems that have a basic cone filter intake near the turbo under the vehicle, because on those systems, they really are cold air intakes.

      The fact that the "tuning package" is an upgrade option (Diablosport tuner, MAP sensor, injectors) kinda worries me. Sounds like it might not come out-of-the-box tuned and ready to drive. That will require some confirmation with STS.

      Then there's the general layout of the system. Location of the turbo where it can easily be dunked in water, snagged by things, dragged through mud. And the miles of intake piping. That can't be good for turbo lag.






      The best feature I see about this system is that the stock catalytic converters are retained.


      Only one way to find out how it really compares. I think JeepLab needs to expand their shootout comparison to include the STS turbo
      This is an intricate system. Its sooo cool how they install the turbo in a remote location. My question is, isnt pushing the air that long of a distance, reducing the psi at the intake?

      The idea is cool Im less concerned about hitting a rock with it. It would have to be a jagged rock and you'd have to land on it.
    1. DHewes's Avatar
      DHewes -
      So for the Prodigy kit, this is the $159 option for auto transmission guys?

      http://www.prodigyperformance.com/pr...p/pro-2050.htm
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Quote Originally Posted by JeepLab View Post
      My question is, isnt pushing the air that long of a distance, reducing the psi at the intake?
      That's the generalization. Longer pipe between the compressor and the engine intake means lower pressure and more lag. I've seen mixed reports/opinions about STS remote-mount turbo systems. Some people say lag is noticeably worse than front-mounted turbos (like the Prodigy), others say that STS does a good job of choosing turbo size and pipe size to make lag not an issue.

      I've read elsewhere that the length of exhaust pipe between the engine and the turbine has a bigger impact on lag. I'm pretty sure the Prodigy exhaust piping is quite a bit shorter than the STS.

      I think only a head-to-head Prodigy vs STS comparison can answer this conclusively *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*

      Quote Originally Posted by DHewes View Post
      So for the Prodigy kit, this is the $159 option for auto transmission guys?

      http://www.prodigyperformance.com/pr...p/pro-2050.htm
      That's it. The website is not the best, and they don't seem to list all options on the website (air filter color, turbo blanket color, polished turbo, etc.), so I highly recommend calling and talking to them to get full details of what's available if you are interested in purchasing.
    1. DHewes's Avatar
      DHewes -
      I am absolutely purchasing but want to wait for the Stage 2 kit with the intercooler for my auto equipped JKU. (Ain't nobody got time to shift AND text)
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      If you purchase a stage 1 kit, they will let you upgrade to stage 2 when available for exactly the price difference between stage 1 and 2 (for a limited time). So you can enjoy stage 1 while waiting for stage 2 with no financial penalty Call to discuss details of this deal just to be sure it will work with the longer timeline of the stage 2 kit for automatic trans.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Stage 1 kits are not going to ship out next week

      They had to make a minor modification to the exhaust cross-over pipe, so they have to wait for new production pipes to be made. The goal is now to start shipping early in the week of the 12th.

      The intercooler for stage 2 is still getting some design refinement. We may hear more about stage 2 late next week.

      I'm also getting some complete specs on the turbo itself. It's not an off-the-shelf stock turbo from Garrett, so it has been specifically configured for this application
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      How about some pictures of exhaust pipes?

      Here's where the Prodigy downpipe connects back up with the stock exhaust system (driver side):



      This is the downpipe coming down from the front of the engine (driver side). You can also see a glimpse of the driver side head pipe (right edge of photo) that drops down and crosses over to the passenger side.



      And here's the cross-over pipe viewed from the passenger side, connecting up with passenger side head pipe:

    1. Anotheruserid's Avatar
      Anotheruserid -
      I have a forced induction boner
    1. JeepLab's Avatar
      JeepLab -
      Quote Originally Posted by Anotheruserid View Post
      I have a forced induction boner
      I couldnt have said it better. Im pretty sure we all do.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Prodigy is still on track to start shipping stage 1 kits early next week. Hopefully there's no more delays. It's still possible that I could have mine in time to install on May 17th

      I'm trying hard to not go insane from the wait...
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Some info about the turbo itself...

      It's based on the Garrett "T04S" (part# 465981-0002): http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...&Category_Code

      It has a proprietary (trade secret) configuration specifically for use in the Prodigy kit. It's unknown whether the proprietary configuration is based on standard options, or whether it is a completely unique non-standard configuration.

      Turbo part numbers are a mystery to me. Trying to search for more info on "T04S" or "465981-0002" seems to lead me to somewhat similar but different turbos, none of them with full specs.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Slow week for Prodigy news, but here's something. The startup splash screen on the pre-loaded Diablosport InTune:


      link: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...28332513927052
    1. Gunner's Avatar
      Gunner -
      One thing about turbos is that at small throttle openings they are very benign. It requires some skinny pedal to make boost. A Maggie would provide the best small throttle response of the three I would guess. My experience is a bit dated but my 10-71 big blocks would tear your head off on ten pounds of boost with just a tap of the throttle. My turbos were not so immediate but once they came on boost a V6 Buick would destroy the big block.
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