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  • JeepLab Prodigy Install LIVE

    Ok, So the install went pretty much off without a hitch.

    The plan was for us, JL guys, who had never seen a turbo before, install it with the Prodigy guys watching for issues as we went. Our ace, Carolina Pete lead the charge, as usual. Like any true mechanic, it was hard for Wes from Prodigy to watch from the side lines and not get dirty with the rest of us.

    Wes was a master mechanic before he was 21. He owns 2 garages in FL. The guys knows cars, and he knows forced induction.

    Jessee is one of our guys, who offered to put his jeep on the operating table in the name of science. LOL. Jess was an excellent sport and was just as busy with the install as the other guys.

    Here's a shot of Jessee as he opened the Turbo.





    This article was originally published in forum thread: JeepLab Prodigy Install LIVE started by JeepLab View original post
    Comments 253 Comments
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      I would enjoy comparing your data logs to mine more than I should admit.
    1. Snarf77's Avatar
      Snarf77 -
      Quote Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
      I would enjoy comparing your data logs to mine more than I should admit.
      Sent brother. Now that being said, I did just plug in my intune and it downloaded an update. I'm not quite sure how to tell if I have a new tune available for the jeep (on the intune) but I can always update and rerun.

      I feel like I might have an air leak somewhere so the comparison might illustrate or back that up.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      According to your data log, you are getting 9 psi boost. Looks like I'm the one with a possible air leak with my 8 psi boost.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      I talked to Prodigy yesterday about their dyno results that show a loss of low-end torque compared to stock:


      Attachment 1316


      It comes down to that's what the dyno results were, so that's what they published. No further official explanation.

      I had previously asked about why the torque/power suddenly drops before 6500 rpm, and I was told that the dyno operator let off the throttle as soon as the power started dropping, because they were focused on getting peak numbers.

      My speculation is that the dyno operator, being focused on peak numbers, may not have been at full throttle yet in the low rpm range where the chart shows a loss. I think it was just a poor decision on their part to publish a dyno chart that was not a proper representation of the full rpm range.

      I was also told that a customer got before/after dyno results and found that low rpm results were even with stock (no loss).

      Another customer will be getting a turbo installed in a few weeks, including before/after dyno results. I hope that Prodigy considers obtaining third-party before/after results from customers and shares them.

      Unfortunately, Prodigy cannot put their in-house jeep on the dyno for a "do over" dyno chart of stage 2. That Jeep is currently getting some additional changes made to it. Can't wait to see how that turns out.
    1. Snarf77's Avatar
      Snarf77 -
      Jesse's Girl will be back on the dyno eventually. I'll be doing some axle work with some Yukon kit in the rear, and hopefully a new driveshaft. Once she's up and running right again, I'll sticker her back on the rollers and see what's up.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Quote Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
      According to your data log, you are getting 9 psi boost. Looks like I'm the one with a possible air leak with my 8 psi boost.
      Then again... it's also possible that I have the normal amount of boost (if we go by the Prodigy website page that claims 8.2 psi), and you have extra boost due to a small leak in the boost sensing line that connects to your waste gate.

      I recently discovered that the hose fitting on my turbo for the waste gate line had a torn o-ring. This fitting is only used for stage 1, and is replaced with a plug when upgrading to stage 2. That torn o-ring could have bled off a bit of pressure in the waste gate line and caused my excess boost for stage 1.
    1. NOLAjeeper's Avatar
      NOLAjeeper -
      Quote Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
      I would enjoy comparing your data logs to mine more than I should admit.

      while we're at it can i send you mine too?? lets all 3 compare. Pickles how are you reading the files? just curious..
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      More data! I'll send you a PM with my email address so you can send me some logs.

      This page has a link to download the Diablosport data viewer, which is used to view the data logs: https://www.diablosport.com/products...a-logging.html

      It's in the section titled "Integrated PC Logging Software".
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      NOLA: Bad news...

      You're only getting 7.5 psi peak boost!

      Worse news...

      Your boost doesn't hold steady after it peaks. It falls off to only about 6.7 psi boost near red line.


      I suspect that your wastegate boost sensing line is still hooked up in the stage 1 configuration (connected directly to the turbo outlet). For stage 2, it's supposed to be teed into a vacuum line that connects to the intake manifold (per Prodigy's instructions).
    1. NOLAjeeper's Avatar
      NOLAjeeper -
      Quote Originally Posted by UselessPickles View Post
      NOLA: Bad news...

      You're only getting 7.5 psi peak boost!

      Worse news...

      Your boost doesn't hold steady after it peaks. It falls off to only about 6.7 psi boost near red line.


      I suspect that your wastegate boost sensing line is still hooked up in the stage 1 configuration (connected directly to the turbo outlet). For stage 2, it's supposed to be teed into a vacuum line that connects to the intake manifold (per Prodigy's instructions).

      Thats not good! Thanks for the Info. Im on the hunt now for the escaping boost.. Can you show me a picture of your set up for the stage 2 wastegate configuration? For a reference point.. I had the shop install mine so i dont know what cross reference it to. Thanks.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Go back to this post to see some details I already covered about where the wastegate line gets connected with stage 2, and where it really should get connected: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?14...ull=1#post2740

      Quick review...

      This link has cool info and pictures to explain stuff: http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-...eed-ebc-47532/



      The wastegate should be connected to position "B", between the intercooler and the throttle body.

      Stage 1 has the wastegate connected to position "A". Since stage 1 has no intercooler, this is fine. Without an intercooler, there is no significant difference in pressure measured from position "A" or position "B".

      NOLA's problem is that he has the intercooler now, but his wastegate is still connected to position "A". He is experiencing lower peak boost as well as "boost sag", which is explained in the link above.

      The official instructions for stage 2 have you connect the wastegate to position "C". This post explains why position "C" is bad: http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-...32/#post574757


      For my install, I used one of these to add a boost source at position "B" for my wastegate:
      http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=BCS





      Here's the boost source for my waste gate:




      I zip-tied the waste gate line to the BOV line, and at two points on the radiator fan shroud. One of the points is simply tied to an existing wire that is secured to the fan shroud. I had to drill a small hole through an "arm" of the fan shroud closer to the BOV to add a zip tie there and hold the wastegate line away from the exhaust down pipe.




      And here's how my BOV line is teed into an existing vacuum source on the intake manifold:

    1. Yoinkers's Avatar
      Yoinkers -
      is there a standard solution to these varying boost pressures?
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      There's no standard solution. First you need to know how much boost you're supposed to have and what the acceptable variation is among properly installed systems. If you're off by an unreasonable amount, then search for the cause and fix it Too much boost is most likely caused by a leak in the wastegate boost sensing line. Too little boost is most likely a boost leak in the intake system between the turbo and the throttle body.

      NOLA's problem was easy to diagnose just from looking at the shape of his boost curve in his data log. Incorrect wastegate setup.

      We still don't have a straight answer for what the normal amount of boost is yet. Snarf and I are off by 1 psi from each other, which seems like more than an acceptable variance to me. I'm interested in seeing how much boost NOLA has after correcting his wastegate setup.

      If NOLA gets about 9 psi like Snarf, then I will suspect I have a boost leak, and I'll have to perform a boost leak check: fabricate a way to hook an air compressor to the turbo inlet so I can pressurize the full intake system and search for leaks at all the connections with soapy water.

      If NOLA gets 8 psi like me, then there's a few possibilities:

      1) Maybe there's a 1 psi pressure drop across the throttle body. Snarf's wastegate boost source is downstream of the throttle body. Mine is upstream of the throttle body, and NOLA will be duplicating my setup. If there's a pressure drop across the throttle body, then the downstream boost source will result in more boost in the intake manifold. I could test this easily by temporarily rearranging things so that my wastegate is hooked up similar to Snarf's.

      2) Maybe Snarf has too much boost. I had about 1 psi extra boost with stage one, which I suspect was caused by a mangled o-ring on one of the fittings for the boost sensing line for the wastegate. If the test for option 1 above fails, then I would as Snarf to double check that all his wastegate boost sensing line connections are tight.

      3) Maybe NOLA and I BOTH have boost leaks. If tests for option 1 and 2 both fail, then I'll work on a boost leak test.


      If everything checks out and it turns out there really is a wide normal variation in boost across different installs, then a simple manual boost controller could be used to get a lower boost system up to 9 psi. They basically introduce a controlled leak into the wastegate boost sensing line to trick the wastegate into "seeing" less boost so that it opens later and at a higher actual intake manifold boost level.
    1. jeepsking's Avatar
      jeepsking -
      Jeff. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have a question related to the AFR sensor. Where is the best place to install it in this setup.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      From searching, it seems like a general guideline for wideband AFR sensor location is that it should be after the turbo to avoid exposing the sensor to the high exhaust temps before the turbo. Another general guideline is that you should avoid mounting it too far downstream because it takes time for exhaust to travel through the pipes, and you want as little lag as possible between exhaust exiting the engine and causing a reading on the sensor.

      If I were to add a AFR sensor, I would probably put it on the downpipe, after the downward bend, so that the wiring could be routed up between the alternator and throttle body. Basically, somewhere on the part of the downpipe that is visible from above, to the right of the downward bend that is right in front of the alternator:




      Just find a spot that fits well, lets you route the wiring nicely, and don't mount it horizontal or below horizontal:

    1. jeepsking's Avatar
      jeepsking -
      Thanks Jeff. That really helps. I will be installing my kit next week. Hope so.
    1. jeepsking's Avatar
      jeepsking -
      Just gone through AEM wide band instructions and it clearly states that the sensor must be fitted at leat 18" after the turbo or 36" in extreme conditions. When i measured the distance 18" it exactly falls where the waste gate throw out connect ed to the down pipe. I believe this might give also a false reading. In this condition the better way is to install it after the flexible down pipe. Just sharing a point of view.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      That makes sense. A good reminder to always read instructions and not just blindly trust what you saw on the internet from a non-official source
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      I reconfigured my vacuum/boost lines today so that my wastegate is hooked up to the intake manifold like the official Prodigy setup. I'm still getting 8 psi, so there is not a 1 psi drop across the throttle body to explain my 8 psi vs Snarf's 9 psi. Now I'm just waiting for NOLA's results after he sets up his wastegate properly.

      One more piece of the puzzle. I'll be switching back to my setup, now that I got that info.
    1. UselessPickles's Avatar
      UselessPickles -
      Congrats to NOLA for getting his wastegate setup properly for stage 2 today! He has joined the the 8.0-8.2 psi club with me and the official Prodigy website claim of 8.2 psi: https://www.prodigyperformance.com/3...ler-turbo-kit/

      Snarf - I'm starting to think your 9 psi is an indication of a problem. Here's some things to check for:

      Leaks in the boost sensing line for the wastegate (along with any other vacuum hoses that it is teed into). Any leak, anywhere in that system of hoses that all hooks into the same small port on the intake manifold, could cause a false low pressure reading to the wastegate, which would allow higher than intended boost levels in the manifold.
      Check for any cracks/damage to the hoses.
      Check the ends of all hoses for damage, make sure they are pushed on the hose fittings fully, and securely zip-tied.
      Also check the banjo bolt for the barbed hose fitting on the wastegate to make sure it is tight.

      The evidence seems to be stacking up in favor of 8.2 psi being the true expected boost level of stage 2. I was told, however, that the tune is designed to handle up to 9.2 psi. I think I'll ask for Prodigy's opinion on using a manual boost controller to get the full 9.2 psi boost: http://www.grimmspeed.com/manual-boost-controller/
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