Is it a leak in the system?
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Is it a leak in the system?
If I were you, I would record a data log of those exact situations you described, and send them to Prodigy with a description of the problem.
Do you have the 6-speed manual transmission? If so, then what about driving at 80 mph in 6th gear? I drive 70-80 mph in 6th gear all the time without any trouble.
I did send 3 logs to prodigy nearly 2 weeks ago, I don't know what they saw in the logs. But whatever it was they think the new tune will fix the issues. As much as I want it to be true I m not sure if it's a tune thing, i mean the starting issue was suppose to have been resolved with the tune I was sent, but never did.
My setup:
4dr Jk
Auto Tran.
4.10 ratio
315 75/17
Maybe just wait for the new tune. I suspect it will be available to everyone pretty soon. Rumor is that it's pretty awesome, and a major improvement over the previous tune. I'm starting that rumor right now ;-)
I'm waiting and hoping,
And it's killing me
When a turbo feels like it is going on and off that is called Compressor Surge or sometimes just Turbo Surge (the first is more correct). That happens because you are operating on the left hand boundary line of a Turbo Map. It is an area of massive instability in the in the pressure on the compressor wheel. And why you see it in 5th gear is probably because the cars throttle is too closed off so you are getting back pressure in the intake manifold causing an instant build up of extra air in the process-- this creates areas of high pressure and low pressure-- this causes the compressor wheel to create boost and then stop creating boost. I know this engine isn't a throttle body type system but it still has to control the air flow into the cylinder heads some way. It seems that is not working correctly. So, why does vanish in 4th ? The throttle is opening up more in 4th Gear to allow more fuel and air to mix and this gives the turbo the ability to pump all that air into the cylinder head. Why this didn't show up right away is sort of a mystery. It could be that your tunings some how reset to stock and you need to reset them. But I don't know much about your settings so those claims are hard to make by some one like myself. I would just take it to a mechanic have him test it out and see what he says. I bet Compressor Surge is what you are describing and it will cause the cylinder heads to trap excess exhaust cause if it is by an intake blockage. It could be a valve timing issues too-- the VVT system is some how cutting off the flow from the intake too early and causing the surge. Compressor surge is not good and you should have it corrected as quickly as possible.
KaiserBill,
Is it possible that it would reset it self back to stock tune,,?
What I can do is reinstall the latest tune I hav and see what happens.
But I like what your proposing with the issue of compressor surge, totally possible, and makes perfect sense to me now.
I don't' know if it could go back to the stock tune. You said you had starting problems from the start. So that is not a good sign. Perhaps, the fix they sent you didn't exactly fix it, but caused new issues. Usually these issues will show up immediately when you install a turbo. Myself, I wouldn't touch the settings before I take it to a mechanic-- might even want to use a tow service to do that. Then let the mechanic drive and check out the settings. This is the one problem with aftermarket parts like this when they go wrong it is hard to say exactly how to fix it. The mechanic will have to talk to Prodigy and see what they think and what they spec out and then he will have to test everything and see if you are actually getting those requirements. It could take a long time to figure out what part of the system isn't functioning correctly right now.
Diagnosing a vehicle over the internet is not easy. And the best thing to do is really have a mechanic look at it and find out what is happening. Because you can do serious damage to the turbo if you let this condition continue.
A typical mechanic is not going to be able to help much with an after-market bolt-on custom tuned turbo kit. If you do decide to take it somewhere, find a performance shop that specializes in designing/installing/tuning custom turbo systems and kits.
The only way your vehicle could have gone back to the stock tune is if you took it to a dealer and they flashed your computer with an update, or if you specifically installed the original backup with the InTune.
It is possible that a problem with your current tune caused long term fuel trims to gradually adjust to extreme values in a certain engine load/speed area of the maps/tables, which could explain why you did not initially experience these problems. An easy way to test this is to simply install the most recent tune you have from Prodigy again. This will guarantee you have the right tune installed, AND will reset all adaptive memory for a fresh start. If it starts driving good again, then you know for sure the tune was the problem.
I've been testing the new tune from Prodigy for a couple days now. Low RPM power/driveability is SOOOO much better now. At this point, it's been so long since I've driven with a stock engine, that I honestly can't tell whether this new tune has simply returned low RPMs to stock power/driveability, or whether it's better than stock now. It's really hard to pinpoint the RPM at which the turbo starts feeling noticeably more powerful than stock.
The new tune made 382 hp and 380 ft-lbs torque on Prodigy's test jeep (up from their previous claim of 359 hp and 373 ft-lbs). I don't really feel an increase in max acceleration from the peak torque gain, but I do feel like the torque carries through to red line better without fading away as much. Can't wait to see a new dyno chart from Prodigy.
With the improvements to low end torque, I suspected that boost might build at low RPMs a bit better. With the tune producing more power, that would result in more exhaust gasses, which should provide more power to the turbo to generate more boost. Here's the results:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...e_feb_2015.png
NOTE: Because of the way that different "channels" of data in the data log are updated out of sync from each other, the data points in the chart can be off by up to about 100 RPM. It looks like the new tune causes a bit less boost where it steeply climbs between 2800 and 3800 rpm, but I suspect that is just an artifact from out-of-sync data being paired up. This is really only a significant problem on the part of the chart where the curve is very steep.
Looks like my prediction is correct! More boost in the low RPM range. I have no explanation for why I got more peak boost this time.
So here's the updated boost curve alone:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ar_update2.png
And the update comparison chart:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...st_update1.png
Based on the new boost curve, I sure would expect some noteworthy gains over stock starting around 2000 rpm. Someone still needs to get a turbo jeep and stock jeep on the same dyno for a good comparison dyno chart...
I also have the new Prodigy tune and have been using it for a couple days. The power delivery below 2000 rpm is a huge improvement even over the previous improvement. I need to sort out many of the small issues pickles has discussed in this thread (PCV, oil catch, etc) as prodigy offers OEM solutions. After the details are sorted out, I'll make another effort to get a stock/boosted dyno shootout on the books.
I have been running the tune for 3days now and like you all the improvments are verry noticable, the engine is running much smoother and the acceleration and power delivery comes in steady, also the starting issue is no more so far and i hope it stays that way.
I did however find some small leek at the up pipe going to the turbo and that was fixed.
I have not seen the temp Issue come again as i described previously.
Overall verry happy with the changes this tune made.
Has anyone considered a wastgate controlloer? Wouldnt they help stablize the compressor even more and stop the possibility of surging?
Regarding heat wraps, i wraped my exhaust prior to instalation with Titanium wrap, i did not do that expecting any performance gains but only to keep engin bay temperatures down.
Im now also looking for solution to relocate the trans cooler, the way its set up now is ok with the cool temp we have but once we move into summer and we start to see temp of high 40'sC and high humidity my radiator will struggle with all that is fitted infront of it.
I welcom any ideas in this regard.
I'm running new tune as well. Much smoother acceleration particularly in low rpm.
Strange thing though after the tune I threw a P0304 code which is a misfire on number 4 cylinder. During install the shop had a P0404 code which is diff but same cylinder I suppose.
I can't get to shop until Monday but will have them check coil and plug.
Vehicle doesn't appear to be running rough or anything. I'm also curious why the former tune sort of suppressed this issue if in fact it's not a glitch.
If the light was not on I wouldnt know if anything is wrong. Seems to run fine otherwise.
BK
Hey guys,
I JUST received an email from APR, the manufacturer of the ECU tune on my Audi A4. They claim they just released a new tune that significantly increases total HP/Tq. While reading through this, there was one line that frankly shocked me. Apparently on newer A4's, they are now E85 compatible, AND, APR's tune for E85 now gets more gains then their tune for 100 Octane fuel!!!
"By adding E85 to the tank on the Ethanol compatible variants, automatic Ethanol map blending adds even more power, resulting in 85 horsepower and 135 ft-lbs of torque."
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up..._long_b85.html
I honestly had NO idea that E85 could actually provide more power than regular octane gas. Any chance our Jeeps are E85 compatible? Any chance any of the SC/Turbo tuners has or can create a tune for E85? Also, I guess I never asked this, do any of the SC/Turbo manufacturers provide the ability to switch between different tunes for different octanes easily? I can do this in my Audi in about 30 seconds right now via the cruise control buttons. I have a 91 octane and 93 octane tune loaded in the ECU and I just switch between them as needed. Sadly, WA doesn't seem to have many 93 octane stations so I've had to downgrade to the 91 octane tune.
A quick search found a forum post from someone with a 2012 Wrangler that got confirmation from a service department that it is NOT compatible with E85.
As far as I know, all the FI kits for the 2012+ Wrangler are now using the Diablosport InTune for installing the tune, and only one tune is provided. The InTune can hold multiple tunes on it, but it takes about 10-15 minutes to go through the process of installing a different tune. No "quick" switching between tunes. Prodigy's tune requires minimum 91 octane.
It seems that everyone is in agreement that the new tune is a huge improvement. Now the question becomes: has anyone experienced any issues with the new tune (besides Bkeef's strange error code)?
I'm still running into a jerk/lurch in acceleration sometimes while accelerating through about 2500-2700 rpms. This is with part-throttle, somewhat quick acceleration in 1st gear and sometimes noticeable in 2nd gear. A typical situation where I experience this is turning onto a major road from a complete stop, not stomping on the throttle racing, but just smoothly pressing on the pedal to get up to speed reasonably quickly. Right as I pass through about 2500-2700 rpm, the Jeep will behave as if I quickly lifted off the throttle slightly, then jabbed at the throttle to briefly accelerate more quickly than I previously was. It shakes the Jeep enough for a passenger to notice it and think that I was being sloppy/jerky with my throttle control, or even think that I had just completed a rough shift (manual transmission).
I'm not sure if this would even show up as an issue with automatic transmissions, because it seems to require accelerating through that RPM range within a certain range of engine load, and I'm not sure whether the auto trans will allow it.
Anyway, that is the only complaint I have about this new tune as of now. Everything else about it has been awesome. I would like to try to determine whether what I am experiencing is is unique to me and my jeep (less likely to be a problem with the tune), or is anyone else still experiencing a similar problem (very likely to be a problem with the tune).
There should not be any concern about compressor surge. Compressor surge would be caused by an improperly sized turbo for the application. If there was compressor surge with this turbo, we would all be experiencing it.
If an install error, exhaust leak, etc., were somehow the cause of compressor surge, a boost controller would not help avoid this, because a boost controller only regulates boost pressure. Boost controllers only have the ability to get more boost than what the wastegate spring would naturally allow, which means it holds the wastegate closed and forces the turbo to work harder than usual (more likely to get into a surge condition).
Here's an awesome (long and informative) article about how intercoolers work, and how the decision of when to use intercooler water spray most effectively/efficiently is more complicated than most people assume. Their solution is an "intelligent" water spray controller monitors ambient temperature, intercooler core temperature, and fuel injector duty cycle to spray the intercooler when it needs it, and conserve water when it isn't needed.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0527
Could not have written a better description of the "surge" us magnuson guys experience. Spot on right down to the RMPs! And I do have an auto trans. I know you're chasing turbo issues but I offer the observation in wondering if the aftermarket tuners could be missing the same thing regardless of the forced induction system.
I agree with Pickles. That said, one of the forced induction companies told me off the record that they are considering all possibilities in working through calibration issues include electro-mechanical boost/bypass control to eliminate spring/vacuum actuation and tie the boost to the ECU mapping. I do believe computer controlled bypass/waste gate is something we may see in the future. For us supercharger guys a vacuum bypass works great when you only want boost at wide open throttle one quarter mile at a time. But as Pickles points out his little trouble spot in the mid to upper 2,000 rmp range happens at part throttle. I don't know waste gate theory in turbocharging (despite having several volvos, audis and a 1980 turbo trans am ((worst motor ever!!))).
Pickles, this is what I have been trying to explain for sometime, I had this problem before the tune and after the tune it's still there but not as before.
The jerkiness, boost coming in and out with no change in pedal input, I even tried driving with manual shifting, but still the same.
If I go for a quick acceleration it will pick up quick and then have that pause and continues on, it's as if Its not comfortable with small pedal inputs, it wants you to floor it all the time.
But it's weird that you got it after the tune!
A supercharger bypass valve is very different from a turbo wastegate. At any given engine speed, the supercharger is always capable for generating full boost for (for that engine speed). The bypass valve allows that air to recirculate back to the supercharger inlet and essentially let the supercharger "free spin". When pressing on the throttle and reducing manifold vacuum, if that vacuum-controlled bypass valve closes too suddenly, you get a sudden harsh transition from no boost to full boost.
A turbo can only produce boost when there's enough engine load to produce enough exhaust to spool the turbo, and the wastegate is there to LIMIT boost (by bypassing exhaust around the turbine), not bypass boost back to the turbo inlet. With the turbo and wastegate, there's no tipping point with manifold vacuum that instantly moves you from no boost to full boost. As you press the throttle, you create more engine load, more exhaust, spool the turbo more, produce more boost, then the wastegate eventually opens as you approach the target peak boost to prevent boost from continuing to rise. The wastegate never causes a harsh transition, aside from noise. If you pay attention, you can hear it open because you can suddenly hear a different "whoosh" sound of exhaust flowing through the waste gate. Just for fun, I have played with feathering the throttle to stay right at that transition point. I can hear the wastegate repeatedly opening and closing, but there's never a sudden transition in power in this situation.
NOTE: wastegate behavior will be different between my install vs Prodigy's official install, because of this: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post3590
At part throttle, I can get my wastegate to open because it is reaching the target boost in the intake system before the throttle body (where my wastegate boost source is), even though my intake manifold may be a couple PSI below the target. The official Prodigy setup has the wastegate boost source as the intake manifold, so at part throttle, there may be situations where the wastegate stays closed trying to reach the target boost in the intake manifold, but the pressure on the other side of the half-way closed throttle could be above the target boost level, working the turbo harder than desired (hmmmm... I wonder if this could lead to compressor surge in these situations?).
I've always had this issue. It was one of the first things I noticed on my very first test drive after installing stage 1 last June.
So are you saying that there may be something in the way pressure is equalized across the throttle body at part throttle? I understand that my system is sucking air through the TB and your system is pushing air through the TB. But I've often thought that my TB was not designed for FI. Too much "play" in the throttle plate.
Hey guys. I read this and thought "oh, I've experienced this on my Audi." Any time I get exactly what Pickles describe, a smooth, linear hard acceleration, and then I get what feels like a small blip in power, I've learned, it's gas with too low of octane or is not good enough. I've driven with 93 octane gas and had my 93 octane tune loaded and it would do this. I drop down to the 91 octane tune and the issue would go away. When I lived back in the mid-west (and don't get me started on "mid-west," I have an issue with that word just like my "High Altitude" verbiage issue) I could almost always find 95 octane, so I just ran that with my 93 octane tune and my issue was gone.
Now, you guys are must more technical about all this stuff than I ever am, BUT, if you haven't tried already, try to get some of the best gas you can find and see if it helps at all. If you're in the mid-west to north east, you might even get lucky and be able to find 95 octane! It's worth a tank of gas to see if that resolves the issue.
[Urgh... couldn't help it... How can you have a "Mid-West" that is East of Central!!!! Stupid. If you ever here me refer to "Mid-East" that means the "Mid-West" area, not overseas.
Worst possible sentence ever... "I drove from the Mid-West to the High Altitudes of the Rocky Mountains."
Translation: I drove from the Rocky Mountains to the Rocky Mountains so my Jeep could fly above the ground.]
No, it's just the very different ways that superchargers and turbos work, and that the purpose/function of a supercharger bypass valve is very different than a turbo wastegate. A wastegate will never cause a sudden change in power delivery like a supercharger bypass valve can.
Hard accelerations are actually smooth for me. It's the part throttle light/moderate acceleration where the problem happens. Also, the tune requires minimum 91 octane, and I'm running 93 octane (91 isn't very common around here).
I finally had my first encounter with another performance vehicle out on the road :)
I'm at a red light, in the right of two lanes. The right lane ends about 1/4 mile after the intersection. There's a car beside me, and a modern Dodge Challenger behind me. Light turns green, and I accelerate normally, but faster than the car beside me, because I want to make sure I'm ahead enough to merge out of my lane before it ends without being a dick and cutting this other car off.
I notice that the Challenger is staying very close to my rear bumper, probably waiting for enough gap between me and the car that was next to me so he can change lanes and pass me. I shift into 2nd at a fairly normal RPM because I'm not showing off at this point.
Then I see the Challenger make his move. I see an aggressive lane change and hear the Hemi start to roar a bit. No time to downshift at this point, so I just step on the throttle in 2nd, but I'm not quite up to the RPM where full boost kicks in. The driver of the Challenger must have noticed I suddenly started accelerating more, because I then heard the Hemi transition to full roar, and the Challenger lunged forward.
Right as the Challenger gets beside me, I transition to full boost. Couldn't have timed it more perfectly if I tried. Next thing I know, I'm several car lengths ahead of the Challenger, can still hear the Hemi roaring, but he's still falling back. I also notice at this point that I'm now going faster than I would prefer, and my lane is going to end soon, so I merged over and let off the gas to coast down to to more appropriate speed.
The Challenger quickly catches up to me just as the right lane ends, and rides my rear bumper for a few seconds. Then he aggressively passes me at full throttle, flips me the bird, and speeds excessively up to the next red light. I had not cut him off, blocked him from changing lanes, or anything else rude. His rude gesture can only be the result of being a sore loser.
I thought that was the end of it, but I was wrong. It turns out that "sore loser" is an understatement for this guy...
He stops at the red light way ahead of me, but I can see he keeps inching forward, trying to get a jump on the green light. As I approach, he just takes off, running the red light before it was even close to changing (cross street still had a green light).
There's another red light just about 1/8 mile ahead with two lanes now. This time he actually comes to a complete stop, but at a slight diagonal,partially occupying both lanes. I guess he really didn't want me to pull up beside him.
I was actually going to be turning right at that intersection anyway, so I slowly/carefully squeezed past him, stopped, checked to make sure traffic was clear, and proceeded with my turn (right turn on red is legal here). The driver of the Challenger sat still, hands on the wheel, facing straight forward the whole time.
I hope he's still trying to figure out wtf happened. I wonder if he could hear the turbo, or just watched me quietly pull away with my stock exhaust.
Unfortunately, I forgot to check for badging to see if it was an R/T or SRT. I did some simple math based on dyno results I have found for Challengers and the difference in curb weight between them and my Jeep (Challenger is 400 lbs heavier than my Jeep!), along with Prodigy's recent 380 whp claim, to determine how the power:weight ratio compares.
Newer 6.4 SRT: Nearly identical power:weight ratio (I have 3% advantage). This car was definitely not a 6.4 SRT, unless he never really went full throttle near the beginning, or else it would have initially blown past me, then I would have just barely maintained the gap between us as I transitioned to full boost.
Older 6.1 SRT: Actually has nearly identical peak hp/tq numbers at the wheels, but due to weight difference, I have an 11% advantage in power:weight. This might be a possibility. He was definitely quickly gaining on me before my boost kicked in. An 11% advantage would definitely allow me to keep increasing the lead as long as I was in the upper RPM range, but I'm not sure if an 11% advantage is enough to let me increase the lead as quickly as I did. Really hard to tell.
5.7 R/T: I have a 30% advantage in power:weight! That could make sense too. It seems like that big of an advantage would have put me further ahead more quickly, but I could be wrong.
Wish I would have looked for the badge. Oh well. It was thoroughly entertaining and made me smile for the rest of the day.
So to summarize, you smoked the muscle car!!!
Basically. I was more surprised by his reaction. I expected either no reaction, or for him to try to catch my attention at the next light and ask me how the hell that just happened. Not pass me, flip me off, run a red light, then try to prevent me from pulling up next to him at the next light.
I bet it was an R/T and he had already been wishing he could have gotten an SRT. I just rubbed salt in that wound and he couldn't handle it :)
You knocked him out in a fair fight. I suppose you cant be too surprised he didn't get up and ask where you developed your awesome left hook. Most muscle heads will get up and sucker punch you while you're walking away. Yep, it was an R/T.
It finally warmed up enough here to wash all the salt off my Jeep from this winter and add a subtle hint of what lurks under the hood. Have I endangered my sleeper status?
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...il_sticker.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...er_closeup.jpg
ProCharger says: "comes standard with the industry’s largest and most effective air-to-air intercooler for the Jeep Wrangler JK. "
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ntercooler.jpg
Prodigy says: "that's cute"
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._installed.jpg
UPDATE: Procharger seems to have updated their website to no longer claim to have the largest intercooler
I got curious and stopped at a local landscape supply to weigh my Jeep on their scale:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...p_on_scale.jpg
3960 lbs
This is with a full tank of gas (just filled up 2 miles away) and whatever random stuff I typically have in the Jeep at all times (nothing really heavy: hat, sunglasses, tow strap, gloves, soft top boot, etc).
According to this document from Jeep, the curb weight of the base model 2-door is 3849 lbs: https://www.jeep.com/assets/pdf/wrangler_specs.pdf
Mine is the base model + A/C. I haven't been able to find anything about how much weight is added by A/C.
I also can't find any details on how Jeep measures curb weight. Some manufacturers measure with a full tank of gas, 3/4 full or 1/2 full.
So since I didn't weigh it before installing the turbo, there's no way to determine how much weight is added by the stage 2 turbo kit.
But now that I do know my actual weight, and Prodigy has released some dyno charts, I have all the info I need to simulate how quickly my Jeep should be able to accelerate.
Assumptions for the simulation: Total vehicle weight is 3960 lbs + 140 lbs (my weight) = 4100 lbs. Launch at 2500 RPM (seems reasonable to avoid roasting the clutch). Each gear change completed in 0.6s (the best I've seen in a data log).
Max acceleration: ~1.1 G around 27 mph in 1st gear
0-60 mph: 4.85s
1/8 mile: 8.63s @ 88.28 mph
1/4 mile: 13.22s @ 106.56 mph
NOTE: The 1/8 mile trap speed of 88 mph is not only enough to travel through time, but is also about the same as the stock 1/4 mile trap speed, which takes about 15.5-16.0s, depending on which car website's results you trust.
Now if you're willing to roast the clutch a bit (or install a high performance clutch) for some 4000 RPM launches...
0-60 mph: 3.99s
1/8 mile: 7.94s @ 88.89 mph
1/4 mile: 12.51s @ 106.87 mph
And how about some highway/freeway "passing power" examples...
60-80 mph, 6th gear: 26.90s
60-80 mph, 5th gear: 13.81s
60-80 mph, 4th gear: 5.66s
60-80 mph, 3rd gear: 2.51s
40-60 mph, 6th gear: 15.64s
40-60 mph, 5th gear: 12.00s
40-60 mph, 4th gear: 8.23s
40-60 mph, 3rd gear: 3.60s
40-60 mph, 2nd gear: 1.56s
Obviously, with the turbo's big gains in the mid-to-upper RPM range, downshifting is your friend here. It's interesting that 5th and 6th gear are faster from 40-60 than 60-80, even though they are at lower RPMs in the 40-60 acceleration, with less torque available. That's a good example of how much more power is lost to aerodynamic drag above 60 mph.
I think I'll try data logging some 40-60 and 60-80 accelerations in different gears to compare real world results to the simulated results and get an idea of how good my predictions are. I have no way of reliably simulating turbo spool/lag when initially going full throttle, so real-world results should be slower if I start my acceleration right at 40/60 mph. If I start the acceleration at a lower speed, the time it takes for me to pass through 40-60 and 60-80 should be close to the predicted results.
A couple more predictions:
Top speed: 144 mph.
It would take about 54 seconds and 1.8 miles to get there.
Which made me wonder what the 1-mile drag race time would be...
Answer: 34.20s @ 138.85 mph
Time for another modification to the turbo install!
Here's the wastegate:
click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ther_mod_1.jpg
It's right behind the radiator fan, a bit below the half-way point of the radiator/fan. Inside the yellow circle is a filtered breather cap, which allows air in/out as the wastegate diaphragm/valve moves. This is the wastegate's atmospheric pressure reference.
Notice all the mud! That's from splashing through some shallow mud (6" deep at most) and some shallow puddles. Clearly, water/mud is able to easily splash up onto the wastegate, and I don't want water/mud getting into the breather port. Especially if I ever end up in water deep enough for the wastegate to get submerged.
So time for a breather hose! I got an extra barbed hose fitting. It's the same fitting used to connect boost/vacuum lines to the wastegate and BOV in the stage 2 kit:
click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ther_mod_2.jpg
There's not really enough room to simply replace the filtered breather cap with the barbed hose fitting (too close to radiator fan shroud). Luckily, there's an optional breather port on the side of the wastegate. Look back at the first picture, and you'll see the plugged port just to the right of the circled breather.
Here's the plug and filter removed:
click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ther_mod_3.jpg
You can see that the filter already has some mud in it!
And here's the final result, with the hose fitting on the side, and the plug in the front:
click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ther_mod_4.jpg
That's 7/32" vacuum hose from a local auto parts store. From there, it meets up with and is zip tied to the radiator fan's wiring:
click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ther_mod_5.jpg
The end is curved to point downward, tucked behind a radiator fan mount. The end of the hose is at the same level as the turbo itself (and therefore, the air intake), so if I'm ever in water that deep, I have much bigger problems than water in my wastegate.
Doing this with everything already installed was pretty challenging because of the tight spaces. My hands are scraped up. It would be much easier to setup the wastegate this way before installing the turbo kit.
From Prodigy's website, here's a picture of their oil catch can:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/.../catch_can.jpg
It's mounted to the firewall, on the driver side, down low (below the steering shaft).
Their setup has a hose from the engine's PCV valve and a hose from the engine's breather port come together with a tee fitting, then into the catch can. Look carefully and you can see the hose connecting to the can's inlet on the passenger side of the can, down toward the bottom. Another hose runs from the outlet of the catch can (top of can) to the air filter. Then yet another hose runs from the can's drain port (bottom of can) and joins the turbo's oil return line with a tee fitting right at the oil pan.
So this is now a completely closed system, with oil being captured out of the air and returned to the oil pan (instead of sucked into the intake and burned in the engine). Unfortunately, it's no longer a PCV system. It's now just a passive ventilation system.
The catch can kit is currently listed on their website at $389: https://www.prodigyperformance.com/p...2001-pro-2002/
I'll probably order it soon and initially install it as directed by Prodigy. I'm curious to see if part-throttle driveability improves by no longer having oil vapors enter the intake through the PCV hose. Then I'll modify the install a bit to return full PCV functionality, and run only the breather hose through the catch can. If there's no noticeable difference, then I'll keep it setup with the PCV operational. If I notice a difference, then I'll start looking into a dual catch can setup (one for the PCV hose, and one for the breather hose) for a completely ideal, fully functional/closed PCV system with minimal oil vapors getting into the intake.
Hmm... change of plans. Looks like I could probably put together an ideal dual catch can setup for about the same amount of money as Prodigy's catch can kit. This will be a fun project.
Did you read his dual catch can idea?
I don't have a problem with the catch can-- I have a problem with his idea for a catch can!
First off the breather hose needs to be free for positive clean airflow into the crankcase. Secondly, what is the can going to do besides possibly impede this ability flow properly??? No, oil vapors come in through the breather hose. Secondly, the catch can doesn't stop the system from being a positive pressure system. It merely instead of dumping the oil, water vapor, unburnt fuel into the intake puts into the in a can then depending emissions standards either vents to the atmosphere or back into the intake just minus much of the aforementioned stuff.
My big diesel engine has a PCV that positively vents right out on the front axle of the truck.