Happens to me every time i go full throttle, pedal to the floor and then let off. I hear that loud ass POP from the exhaust! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
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Happens to me every time i go full throttle, pedal to the floor and then let off. I hear that loud ass POP from the exhaust! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
It happens to me also. Jeff please try this. Put the gear in second and at 1500 rpm press full throttle. Tell me what happens before it reach 2500.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLAjeeper
I promised Dan to shoot a video but didn't have a chance.
By the way i don't know why i received a short elbow pipe which is between the intercooler and the turbo, seems like the gave me an extension pipe to add, but when i saw Jeff close setup then realised that i got it wrong. Now every time i boost on hills the pipe comes out.
If I try that today, I'll probably crash because it's snowing here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
When I recently recorded a data log to make the boost curve chart, that was full throttle in second gear from about 1500 rpm. I don't remember anything particularly bad happening, other than just generally not accelerating very quickly until after 2500 rpm.
It's been so long since I've driven with a stock engine that I can't tell whether it's slower, faster, or the same as stock in the low rpm range. Part of the sluggish feeling is likely due to relative comparison to how hard it accelerates above 2500 rpm, but I think there's still some issues with the tune in that area as well.
My data logs still show long-term fuel trims suddenly going extremely negative at 1500 rpm, then suddenly returning to more "normal" values around 2600 rpm. When accelerating lightly/moderately in 1st gear, especially with a cold engine, I feel a sudden decrease in power as I pass 1500 rpm, then a sudden jerk and surge in power right around 2600-2800 rpm. The severity varies with the amount of throttle I'm using, and the problem becomes fairly subtle when the engine is fully warmed up. The relationship between the long-term fuel trims and the acceleration behavior seems to close to be coincidence, and seems to me to indicate a problem with the tune. If tuned properly, the computer should not have to take away 20+% fuel in the 1500-2600 rpm range.
Have you gotten a custom tune from Prodigy yet?
The longer 1-piece silicone elbow that I have is a newer part that Prodigy now has custom ordered for the stage 2 kit. The shorter elbow that you have is a "standard" size (easy for Prodigy to obtain) that they used at first before getting the custom size. The shorter version requires a short metal pipe to be used as a coupler to attach a short extension of silicone hose to reach the turbo. You'll end up with 3 hose clamps in a row, right next to each other to connect the turbo, extension, coupler and elbow all together.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
There's not much room for error, so you just need to get the coupler perfectly centered between the elbow and extension, get the hose clamps lined up perfectly and make sure all the hose clamps are tight. You also might need to double-check the angle of the compressor housing outlet compared to the angle of the silicone hose to make sure they are meeting each other in a straight line. The silicone hose only overlaps the compressor outlet just barely enough to use a hose clamp. Get that hose clamp right up to the very edge of the silicon to ensure that it is fully clamping down against the compressor outlet, rather than trying to squeeze the silicone off the end of the compressor outlet.
Here's an update on my setup of the PCV system. First, a refresher of what I did with the PCV hose (hose from the PCV valve to the intake manifold): http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post2116
What I didn't talk about back then was the other half of the system: the "make up air" hose, which in stock form allows fresh filtered air from the air filter box to enter the crankcase, replacing the air that was sucked out through the PCV valve.
At the time of my previous posts about the PCV system, Prodigy was still working on how to deal with that side of things. When I first received the stage 1 kit, they completely disabled the PCV system and simply tied both vents from the engine together into a road draft tube, which is just nasty, messy and smelly.
When Prodigy sent me the parts to hook up the PCV hose with a check valve, the instructions had me keep the road draft tube hooked up to the "make up air" vent on the engine. This was unacceptable, because air gets sucked INTO the engine through that tube now! That just seemed like a disaster waiting to happen (tires kicking up dust under the vehicle where the end of the tube is, submerging the tube in water, etc). I immediately ran out to an auto parts store and found a breather filter that I was able to rig up satisfactorily to the original make up air hose, but it was kinda ugly and temporary, so i didn't show it off. Prodigy told me at the time that they were still working on finalizing their solution to the make-up air side of the PCV system.
I have since received a small breather filter (smaller than the hideous monstrosity I had rigged up) from Prodigy with a hose coupler that I believe is intended to be used to attach the filter to the end of the rubber hose that had previously connected to the air filter box. That just so happens to be the same curvy rubber hose that I sacrificed to modify the PCV hose (in the link at the beginning of this post) so I could add the check valve into the system while retaining an OEM look with the formed plastic hose.
So here's the OEM "make up air" hose without its curvy rubber hose:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...v_update_1.jpg
The breather filter conveniently fits right onto the end of that plastic hose:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...v_update_2.jpg
Highlighted in that photo are:
- The breather filter.
- Zip ties holding the heater hoses away from the filter, and also preventing them from touching the intake manifold way in the back.
- A zip tie holding a small plastic vacuum line up. That vacuum line used to be connected directly to the intake manifold, holding it in place. But now with the rubber vacuum hose used to tee in the BOV sensing line, it wants to fall down onto the oil filter cap.
A close-up of how the heater hoses are anchored with zip ties:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...v_update_3.jpg
I like the final result. As close to OEM appearance as I can get:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...v_update_4.jpg
With the breather filter mounted directly onto the plastic hose, it gets hidden by the the plastic engine cover.
Since there was recent talk about adding oil catch cans to the supercharger setups, I think it's worth mentioning that the Prodigy setup doesn't have any oil vapors going through the turbo or intercooler. The only time oil vapors are entering the intake is when there's vacuum in the intake manifold pulling oil air directly through the PCV hose. When you're making boost, it's all fresh air coming in.
The down-side to this setup is that when you are making boost, piston blow-by gasses pressurized the crankcase and cause oily vapors to flow backwards through the the "make-up air hose", through the breather filter, and dumping out to atmosphere under the hood. This is not ideal because:
- Pollution. It definitely won't meet emissions requirements. Won't even pass a visual inspection, if you have those in your region.
- Sometimes you can smell that oily air, especially after some full throttle in the summer with the top down, then coming to a stop or slowing down soon afterward.
- When hooked up in stock form, there's a slight amount of vacuum in the air filter box under high engine load conditions that helps suck the blow-by gasses out of the crankcase through the make-up air hose. When venting to atmosphere, it's a bit less efficient at keeping the crankcase air clean.
In the future, I'd like to explore the option of adding a hose fitting to the end of the air filter (the main air filter on the turbo) so that I can run the make-up air hose through an oil catch can and back into the air filter for a fully closed PCV system. Less pollution, no oily smells ever, and slightly cleaner crankcase air. The only problem is that the tune from Prodigy was designed with purely fresh air when on boost, so I would run the risk of knocking/detonation as a result of lowered effective octane from whatever oil makes it past the catch can. To be 100% safe, I think this would require some serious testing/monitoring by someone that knows what they're doing to determine whether a custom slightly less aggressive tune is necessary to keep things safe. I'm not sure I'll ever get motivated enough to be willing to pay for professional testing and possibly custom tuning for this.
I may discuss with Prodigy at some point to see if they think it would be safe enough to setup, then send them some data logs afterward to see if any tweaks to the tune are necessary.
I just found some more pictures worth posting...
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ntercooler.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...iat_sensor.jpg
Installing stage 2 was a husband/wife bonding experience :)
Thats very cool that your wife comes out to help. Mine will get dirty when she has to but otherwise she is happier keeping me company and filled with liquids.
When Prodigy sent me the parts to hook up the PCV hose with a check valve, the instructions had me keep the road draft tube hooked up to the "make up air" vent on the engine. This was unacceptable, because air gets sucked INTO the engine through that tube now! That just seemed like a disaster waiting to happen (tires kicking up dust under the vehicle where the end of the tube is, submerging the tube in water, etc). I immediately ran out to an auto parts store and found a breather filter that I was able to rig up satisfactorily to the original make up air hose, but it was kinda ugly and temporary, so i didn't show it off. Prodigy told me at the time that they were still working on finalizing their solution to the make-up air side of the PCV system.
I have since received a small breather filter (smaller than the hideous monstrosity I had rigged up) from Prodigy with a hose coupler that I believe is intended to be used to attach the filter to the end of the rubber hose that had previously connected to the air filter box. That just so happens to be the same curvy rubber hose that I sacrificed to modify the PCV hose (in the link at the beginning of this post) so I could add the check valve into the system while retaining an OEM look with the formed plastic hose.
Jeff, that breather is hooked up to the hose that is attached on the drive side of the engine, that vents out to the atmosphere and hangs above the transmission? Thats that hose right?
Yup. But to say that it "vents out" above the transmission is misleading, because the engine actively sucks air IN through that hose any time there is vacuum in the manifold!
I'm reusing the original plastic breather hose, so Prodigy's hose is not involved in my setup at all.
Now that I think of it, Prodigy's intent with this new breather filter may be to simply attach it to the end of their breather hose that hangs above the transmission. This would at least filter the air coming into the crankcase, and would minimize oily smell by not being in the engine compartment, but I wouldn't want my crankcase vent down there when I'm splashing through mud/water. I really don't know what the latest official Prodigy setup is now with regards to the PCV system.
In case you are interested in obtaining new OEM hoses for the PCV system, a dealer should be able to easily find them in their system if you describe it to them as "pcv hose" and "make-up air hose". One was $15.85 and the other was $17.50.
May i recommend as you mentioned earlier us with the ripp are adding oil catch cans for the pcv systems i suggest adding one to your turbo setup as any forced induction motor should have one from what my tuner told me. Also the boost entering the pcv system essentially pressurizing the crank case is not a very good thing to do it puts more uneeded stress on internals. Ripp sells the check valve for the pcv system for 60 bucks or comes standard on the kit it lets the manifold suck air thru when not under boost but when boost enters it closes and no boost will enter the crank case
2k13jk: Review the design of the PCV system with the Prodigy kit as I've described (admittedly, scattered across a couple posts)...
Keep in mind that there's two importantly distinct sides of the PCV system:
1) PCV hose, running from the PCV valve to the intake manifold.
2) Breather, or make-up air hose, from an open valve cover vent (no check valve of any type) to the intake system, somewhere up-stream from the throttle body (not a vacuum source), but down-stream from the air filter (source of fresh filtered air).
There already is a check valve in the PCV hose with the Prodigy kit: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post2116
So there is no boost directly entering the crankcase.
Normal operation for the PCV system is that manifold vacuum sucks air out of the crankcase through the PCV hose. The breather hose allows fresh, filtered air to enter the crankcase, replacing the oily air that was sucked out.
But when on boost, cylinder pressures are much higher than a non-boosted engine, which creates quite a bit more piston blow-by than a non-boosted engine. This causes a reverse airflow from the crankcase through the breather, because that's the only exit path available (The check valve in the PCV hose is held closed by manifold boost pressure). This happens with all the boosted systems.
With the supercharger setups, the breather hose is connected back up to the intake system (like the stock setup). This is why you get oil in the intercooler and supercharger. And this is why adding a catch can to this hose can improve on-boost performance, and even allow for a "hotter" tune.
With the Prodigy kit, the breather hose has its own air filter and is NOT connected back up to the intake system. The Prodigy kit does not suffer from the consequences of oily crankcase air when on boost. I fully described this in my recent post about my PCV setup, including reasons that it's not ideal, and that I'd really prefer to eventually run it through a catch can and back into the intake.
Adding a catch can to the PCV hose has less of an impact on a boosted engine, because oily air only comes through that hose when there is vacuum in the manifold (partial throttle, light load, not when trying to make big power). A catch can here does not prevent oil from coating the inside of the intercooler, because this hose is a direct line from the crankcase to the intake manifold, skipping past the whole intake system.