What exhaust are you running with this? Stock?
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What exhaust are you running with this? Stock?
Who is "you"?
Only Prodigy has kits installed and running right now. As far as I know, the 2 test vehicles have stock exhaust.
The system is tuned out-of-the-box for stock exhaust.
I will be running stock exhaust.
I asked a bit about the effects of running aftermarket freer-flowing exhaust. Free-flowing exhaust would likely improve performance some amount. I didn't get a solid answer about whether it would require additional tuning. Sounds like it would just require some data logging, have Prodigy review it and decide whether fine tuning is necessary. Prodigy will generally do email data-log tuning for free during a reasonable time period after the purchase if there's a problem with the original tune, or if you have a non-stock configuration that requires minor tweaking. He said if it turned into something that requires significant testing/tuning, then they would have to start charging for time (presumably applies only to non-stock setups, or requests for fine-tuning after warranty period).
Prodigy said that it should not be a problem as long as the exhaust has LESS back pressure than the stock exhaust, which is most likely to be true for aftermarket exhaust. Since I don't have a specific exhaust in mind, it was all theoretical discussion. If you either already have aftermarket exhaust, or would like aftermarket exhaust, I suggest you talk to Wes at Prodigy about it before making any commitments.
I had a hard time finding info about this because the STS blog that contains info about it is under construction now. Luckily, Google has a cached copy of it.
Cached copy: http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ngler-3-6l-v6/
Actual link: http://ststurbo.com/blog/sts-turbo-j...ngler-3-6l-v6/
The oil-less turbo being marketed as "less maintenance" and "no dealing with oil" seems funny to me. You have to manually re-grease the bearing occasionally. With Prodigy's oiled turbo, it uses your engine oil via an already available pressurized oil port on the engine. Just change your engine oil as usual. Where is this "dealing with oil" that you avoid with an oil-less turbo?
The "cooler intake temps" claim is also funny. The stock air box is used, so it does not draw in any cooler air. The long air intake piping runs near the engine and near exhaust pipes in some places. The air is then compressed (heat added) by the turbo, and there is no intercooler to cool it down. What is their baseline comparison they use to claim that you'll get "cooler" intake temps? I think they just copied/pasted from marketing for their other systems that have a basic cone filter intake near the turbo under the vehicle, because on those systems, they really are cold air intakes.
The fact that the "tuning package" is an upgrade option (Diablosport tuner, MAP sensor, injectors) kinda worries me. Sounds like it might not come out-of-the-box tuned and ready to drive. That will require some confirmation with STS.
Then there's the general layout of the system. Location of the turbo where it can easily be dunked in water, snagged by things, dragged through mud. And the miles of intake piping. That can't be good for turbo lag.
http://ststurbo.com/blog/wp-content/...4/Picture1.jpg
http://ststurbo.com/blog/wp-content/...4/Picture3.jpg
The best feature I see about this system is that the stock catalytic converters are retained.
Only one way to find out how it really compares. I think JeepLab needs to expand their shootout comparison to include the STS turbo :)
Pickles -
Thanks for the advice on the exhaust. I wasn't sure what they were using and if I needed to swap out to get the best performance.
As far as the STS, that mounting location looks like a great place to get some rock rash. They knew this was a Jeep, right? I suspect their marketing is like it exists in many other fields. I am in infosec and just sat through a two hour meeting with a firewall vendor who made claim after claim of "cutting edge technologies" that actually already exist in the vendor we have been using for a decade and are looking to upgrade. But hey Palo Alto...if you think Deep Packet Inspection is new, the 90's are calling and want their tech back. Marketing sells what they are put in front of them - rarely with any accuracy.
You are 100% right - until there is a non-biased bake-off, trust no one.
A lot of us are armored up under there. I don't know how that would work with all the heat trapped inside the plates on a hot day on a desert crawl.
I have torn two rear driveshafts in half and ripped my evap canister clean off... Not sure i want to bolt up my $5000 turbo in roughly the same location:confused:
Perhaps this is for the more street friendly JK owners out there.
This is an intricate system. Its sooo cool how they install the turbo in a remote location. My question is, isnt pushing the air that long of a distance, reducing the psi at the intake?
The idea is cool Im less concerned about hitting a rock with it. It would have to be a jagged rock and you'd have to land on it.
So for the Prodigy kit, this is the $159 option for auto transmission guys?
http://www.prodigyperformance.com/pr...p/pro-2050.htm
That's the generalization. Longer pipe between the compressor and the engine intake means lower pressure and more lag. I've seen mixed reports/opinions about STS remote-mount turbo systems. Some people say lag is noticeably worse than front-mounted turbos (like the Prodigy), others say that STS does a good job of choosing turbo size and pipe size to make lag not an issue.
I've read elsewhere that the length of exhaust pipe between the engine and the turbine has a bigger impact on lag. I'm pretty sure the Prodigy exhaust piping is quite a bit shorter than the STS.
I think only a head-to-head Prodigy vs STS comparison can answer this conclusively *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
That's it. The website is not the best, and they don't seem to list all options on the website (air filter color, turbo blanket color, polished turbo, etc.), so I highly recommend calling and talking to them to get full details of what's available if you are interested in purchasing.
I am absolutely purchasing but want to wait for the Stage 2 kit with the intercooler for my auto equipped JKU. (Ain't nobody got time to shift AND text)
If you purchase a stage 1 kit, they will let you upgrade to stage 2 when available for exactly the price difference between stage 1 and 2 (for a limited time). So you can enjoy stage 1 while waiting for stage 2 with no financial penalty :) Call to discuss details of this deal just to be sure it will work with the longer timeline of the stage 2 kit for automatic trans.
Stage 1 kits are not going to ship out next week :(
They had to make a minor modification to the exhaust cross-over pipe, so they have to wait for new production pipes to be made. The goal is now to start shipping early in the week of the 12th.
The intercooler for stage 2 is still getting some design refinement. We may hear more about stage 2 late next week.
I'm also getting some complete specs on the turbo itself. It's not an off-the-shelf stock turbo from Garrett, so it has been specifically configured for this application :)
How about some pictures of exhaust pipes?
Here's where the Prodigy downpipe connects back up with the stock exhaust system (driver side):
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/.../exhaust01.jpg
This is the downpipe coming down from the front of the engine (driver side). You can also see a glimpse of the driver side head pipe (right edge of photo) that drops down and crosses over to the passenger side.
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/.../exhaust02.jpg
And here's the cross-over pipe viewed from the passenger side, connecting up with passenger side head pipe:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/.../exhaust03.jpg
I have a forced induction boner:)
Prodigy is still on track to start shipping stage 1 kits early next week. Hopefully there's no more delays. It's still possible that I could have mine in time to install on May 17th :)
I'm trying hard to not go insane from the wait...
Some info about the turbo itself...
It's based on the Garrett "T04S" (part# 465981-0002): http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...&Category_Code
It has a proprietary (trade secret) configuration specifically for use in the Prodigy kit. It's unknown whether the proprietary configuration is based on standard options, or whether it is a completely unique non-standard configuration.
Turbo part numbers are a mystery to me. Trying to search for more info on "T04S" or "465981-0002" seems to lead me to somewhat similar but different turbos, none of them with full specs.
Slow week for Prodigy news, but here's something. The startup splash screen on the pre-loaded Diablosport InTune:
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...02589498_o.jpg
link: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...28332513927052
One thing about turbos is that at small throttle openings they are very benign. It requires some skinny pedal to make boost. A Maggie would provide the best small throttle response of the three I would guess. My experience is a bit dated but my 10-71 big blocks would tear your head off on ten pounds of boost with just a tap of the throttle. My turbos were not so immediate but once they came on boost a V6 Buick would destroy the big block.
Thanks to electronically controlled throttle, part of the turbo's tune could include an optimized throttle map for consistent throttle feel. I do expect that the turbo will still have a "softer" throttle feel due to lag. I wonder if that could actually end up being a benefit (reduced shock to the drivetrain when hitting the throttle).
This is the kind of thing that JeepLab will be able to comment on after some back-to-back comparison :)
I'm still stuck till a CARB version for an Auto comes up.
Don't hold your breath for a CARB approved version, but do call and ask about it. If enough people call and ask for it, then maybe they will see a large enough California market to make it worthwhile to invest in creating a CARB approved version.
Any news on when the JeepLab install might happen?
As of this morning, the pipe supplier is "hoping to have them done this week". Sounds like now the best case scenario is that stage 1 kits will ship at the end of this week, or early next week. If mine arrives early/mid-week next week, I might take a day off work to avoid suffering through the rest of the week knowing that a turbo kit is sitting at home waiting for the weekend.
I also confirmed that stage 2 installation/testing on Prodigy's test Jeep is on hold until the new production pipes come in.
Next Tuesday is the projected shipping date now. Fingers crossed for a Memorial Day weekend install.
Looks like I misunderstood. No kits shipping today. No Memorial Day weekend installation.
From what I understand now, today they got a production sample of the new design of pipe they altered. They are testing/reviewing the fitment of the new pipe today. If everything is good with the new pipe, then a production run will be started. There will also be some final testing/confirmation of the tune with the new pipe. The end of this week is the earliest that kits could start shipping if everything goes according to plan now.
"Again, we want to ensure that you get the best possible product we can produce. We will not send out anything and let our customers end up doing the QC work for us and have to respond to their issues. I hope you can appreciate our commitment to quality above timeliness. We only get one chance to make a first impression and we’ll get it right!"
I have an update. In an effort to not jinx it, I will simply not share any information!
FYI: the stage 1 turbo kit is now listed "on sale" on Prodigy's website for $4799: http://www.prodigyperformance.com/pr...p/pro-2001.htm
If you placed an order already for $4995 (or was it $4999?), it only seems fair that they would retroactively price match, seeing that they haven't shipped out any orders yet.
Shipping was supposed to happen today, or possibly even yesterday. Yesterday evening, I asked if everything was still going according to plan, and I was told, "Your unit will FINALLY ship tomorrow!"
I haven't heard anything today. I'll probably give them a call tomorrow afternoon if I haven't received an email yet.
If good things come to those who wait, then this is sure to be awesome. I just planned a day trip to an ORV park on Father's day. I need to have this turbo delivered next week if there's any hope of me getting it installed before the trip. All this anticipation and waiting makes it tough to focus at work :(
Phone call went straight to voicemail. Hopefully I'll get a return call or email this afternoon.
Yup. I have a bare-bones 2-door sport with manual transmission and soft top. A/C is the only option I have. This should result in a nice power:weight ratio :)
The kits that are supposedly ready to start shipping now are stage 1 kits only. Stage 2 testing/development (for both manual and auto trans) was put on hold when they discovered that they needed to modify the pipe design a bit. I'd guess that it's still on hold as they work on getting stage 1 production and shipping going smoothly.
Got a return call just now. The hold-up was a shipment of MAP sensor adapters that they were supposed to receive on Tuesday, but didn't arrive until this morning.
My turbo kit is all boxed up and heading to FedEx soon! I should get an email with tracking number tonight. I'm trying to not get too excited until I actually have a tracking number with a delivery date, but I think it might finally be safe to say that it's finally coming! I suspect delivery will happen next Tuesday.
I'll start a new thread for my installation when I get the box, starting with some unboxing pics :)
If there is any stealing of thunder from JeepLab's own (future) installation thread, I apologize. It's not the intent. I hope to provide insight from a different viewpoint: just a guy with basic tools and a dirty asphalt driveway as my workshop. No vehicle lift or air tools. This is gonna be cool...
Dan at Prodigy personally dropped off my package at FedEx and sent me photographic proof of the FedEx-labeled boxes :)
Just got the tracking info email from FedEx too. No estimated delivery date yet.
2 packages: 64lbs and 22lbs.
Let us know the due date!
I can't wait to see the up boxing and install pics.
Estimated delivery :
Tues 6/03/2014
I'll plan on getting started Tuesday evening and taking Wednesday off work to finish installation and do some test driving :)
Now we just need JeepLab to get news about when their install will happen...
I'm gonna take Wednesday off just to follow this thread:rolleyes: Good luck pickles. Hope it's everything you've been waiting for. I'm certain there are plenty of guys waiting on the sidelines for these systems to shake themselves out. I know I am, glad someone else has the balls to fall on the sword.