Ba hahaha... So by this logic, me putting on a big puffy down jacket should make me cooler, because the jacket increases my surfaces area, thereby increasing my cooling... :cool: Timma!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf77
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Ba hahaha... So by this logic, me putting on a big puffy down jacket should make me cooler, because the jacket increases my surfaces area, thereby increasing my cooling... :cool: Timma!Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf77
Ha! All joking aside - He's just down for the sleeper look. I'm sure he could blow a mustang out of the water with those stock wheels and all that boost. I bet some minds have been blown at stop lights!Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Close... except not at all. Increased surface area is not the only criteria for cooling more efficiently. A big puffy down jacket uses materials designed to be a great thermal insulator. It fits loosely on your skin, minimizing direct heat transfer from your skin to the jacket. It is thick with a relatively flat/smooth surface, so it has a very low surface-area-to-volume ratio. That means it has a relatively high capacity for storing heat and relatively low ability to transfer heat to surrounding air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Radiator paint is specifically designed with materials to be a great thermal conductor. Unlike your jacket, it bonds directly to the surface for great heat transfer from the radiator/intercooler into the paint. The paint layer itself is thin (low capacity for storing heat) with a rough textured surface, so it has a very high surface-area-to-volume ratio, greatly increasing the surface area for transferring heat to the surrounding air. It's like covering the entire intercooler with tiny heat sink cooling fins.
Then, as described in the "myth buster" video, the black color emits heat radiation more efficiently. On the flip side, it also absorbs heat radiation more efficiently too. If I had been thinking better at the time, I would have left the back of the intercooler unpainted. The radiator and A/C condenser are right behind the intercooler and are likely to be emitting more heat radiation than the intercooler has to give off, so the intercooler will absorb heat radiation from the back. Leaving the back unpainted would minimize this effect.
Haven't had a chance to do that yet. Even if I did line up next to something decent, I wouldn't go for it because my launching skills are embarrassing :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf77
Oh Pickless... This is what I envision you look like when someone makes a joke ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
Timma!!!
http://www.millsworks.net/blog/wp-co...ng_process.gif
That cartoon is hysterical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Stupid internet and its inability to communicate intent of sarcasm...
I like this visual of typing until fingers fly off: http://www.marketmenot.com/kayak-fin...ff-commercial/
Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
Can i get the same instructions. I have reached till intercooler installations.
You'd probably be better off contacting Prodigy to get the most recent version of the instructions. I'm sure they've been improved by now. But if you PM your email address to me, I'll send you what I have.
I also need to find some motivation to write up my experience with installing stage 2...
For the intercooler installation, I actually found it easier to get the intercooler solidly mounted, centered, etc., before attaching any of the hoses to it. The instructions have you install the hot-side (turbo-side) hose before bolting the intercooler in place. When following these instructions, I had a very hard time fighting against that hose to get the intercooler centered.
That hose connecting the turbo to the intercooler is in a VERY tight space. Lube up the end of that hose to help it slide onto the intercooler more easily (I used a thin layer of dish soap - harmless, and becomes a bit sticky when dry), and be prepared to test your patience :)
Finally getting around to documenting the stage 2 upgrade install. I went slightly out of order compared to the official instructions because there were 2 steps that could be conveniently done separately, independent of other steps, and not force you to commit to finishing the complete upgrade. If you want to get a head start on either a stage 2 upgrade, or a complete stage 2 install, you could do these 2 steps as separate complete (relatively quick) projects and still have a fully functioning jeep until you are ready to dive into the rest of the install.
First, I replaced the power steering hose:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...2/ps_hoses.jpg
Stock hose on top, new hose on the bottom. The solid metal portion of the right end of the stock hose is in the way of the charge air pipe that comes up from the intercooler, to the throttle body.
I succeeded in completing this job without making a mess with power steering fluid! I chose to disconnect the power steering pump side of the hose first (passenger side). First, I used aluminum foil to form a pseudo-funnel to redirect fluid from the bottom of the pump cleanly into a bucket. Once the end of the hose is disconnected, let it drip til it's done.
In the picture above, you can see 2 metal clamps on the original hose. Those are bolted down behind the bottom of the radiator. Once you get the hose out of the engine bay, pry those clamps of and put them on the replacement hose.
Here's a view of the new hose connected to the steering gearbox. This is on the driver side, looking down, radiator fan is to the right. This is right where the stock coolant reservoir sits.
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...2/ps_hose1.jpg
Clamps holding in place behind the radiator:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...2/ps_hose2.jpg
And the other end connected to the power steering pump:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...2/ps_hose3.jpg
I needed less than a quart of power steering fluid (ATF-4 trans fluid, as specified by owner's manual) to replace what drained out. Instructions tell you a procedure to follow make sure you get air out of the system.
This is the high pressure side of the system, so it should be quite obvious right away if you have a leak. I had no leaks :)
EDIT: I did have a leak. Learn from my mistake: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post3627
UPDATE: new coolant reservoir location: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post3638
The second independent/separable step is getting rid of the stock coolant reservoir (it's in the way of the charge air pipe for stage 2 as well), and installing a new reservoir in a different location.
Here's the new reservoir:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...voir_parts.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._assembled.jpg
It's a Meziere 28oz Coolant Recovery Tank: https://www.meziere.com/ps-1444-1377-wr100s.aspx
And this is where it gets mounted, behind the front bumper on the passenger side:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...installed1.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...installed2.jpg
This requires drilling holes and tapping threads. Take your time and double check the positioning, mark where you want the holes, etc. I actually mounted mine slightly differently than Prodigy's instructions. Their instructions show the tank mounted slightly further back and lower, causing the bottom of the tank to hang down lower than the part of the frame that it is mounted to. I found that there was barely enough room to mount mine flush with the bottom of the frame. The positioning of the top mounting hole ended up being VERY close to a large existing hole in the frame, so i had very little room for error when drilling that hole.
Don't repeat my mistake when tapping the threads: I used the drill motor with the thread tap, spun it too fast, and got it stuck in the hole, then ended up snapping the tip off in the hole. That was fun to drill that out. Lesson learned: tap VERY SLOWLY. You're supposed to twist the tap by hand, but I just couldn't keep it steady enough with my hand. I ended up using the drill motor again, but this time I oiled the tap for lubrication, and did my best to simulate twisting by hand with the drill motor by doing short, slow, smooth bursts of drilling, to avoid overheating the tap.
The original hose from the radiator to the coolant reservoir gets reused. Just run it straight down from the radiator cap and find a path forward to connect up with the new reservoir.
Yes, you will have to remove the two mounting bolts and pull the reservoir out a bit if you want to take the cap off and check the coolant level in it. I would much prefer another semi-transparent plastic container that is easy to visually check, like the one in the RIPP kit. But the space where RIPP places their reservoir just isn't available with the turbo installed.
Also, this reservoir is much smaller than the stock reservoir. I spent some time looking up info about how much 50/50 coolant/water mix expands/contracts with temperature. I don't remember specifics, but I did find enough info to conclude that this reservoir is pretty much the smallest you could possibly go for the amount of coolant in the Pentastar. Because it's so close, it might just take a little trial and error to get it filled to the correct level so that it doesn't overflow when hot to the extreme (idling in traffic on a hot summer day), and doesn't allow air to be sucked into the system when cold on the coldest winter days.
Let's take another look at this coolant reservoir:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ent_filter.jpg
The vent for the reservoir is just directly on top of the reservoir, at bumper level. Not only is this pretty low for a vent on a Jeep that may go in deep water, but it's quite exposed to rain water that runs down behind the bumper. The filtered cap will keep debris out, but water runs right through it (I tested!). I found this to be unacceptable, but easy to fix.
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...vent_parts.jpg
That's about 4 or 5 feet of 7/32" vacuum hose and a 1/8" male NPT to 1/4" hose adapter, from a local auto parts store. Just replace the filter cap on the reservoir with the hose fitting.
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._vent_hose.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._vent_hose.jpg
And run the vent hose along the same path as the coolant overflow hose:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._vent_hose.jpg
No more worries about getting dirty water into the coolant system.
Follow this link to skip to the next post with installation details: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post3589
-------- UPDATE --------
New location for the coolant reservoir is much better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12LR5t8xxJY
You do not need to remove the reservoir to check fluid level. You can just remove the center cover between the grille and the bumper. This will allow access to view fluid level and top off as necessary. Do you have a pic of the Ripp plastic container? i would like to see it...Quote:
you will have to remove the two mounting bolts and pull the reservoir out a bit if you want to take the cap off and check the coolant level in it. I would much prefer another semi-transparent plastic container that is easy to visually check, like the one in the RIPP kit.
I must just have horrible luck with those stupid plastic fasteners that hold the plastic cover down. I usually have to resort to partially or fully destructive methods to remove them. For me, it's quicker/easier to unbolt the reservoir. Have any tips for removing those plastic fasteners?Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted1
Here's a couple pics I found online:Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted1
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Si_7kMqgUMI/maxresdefault.jpg
http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2014/07...er%20Story.jpg
I found the PDF installation guide at one point, but can't find it again now. They have a bracket that mounts using the original bolts on the stock air box support. The reservoir just drops/slides down onto the bracket. It appears to me that they just found an OEM reservoir from some other vehicle that happens to fit in that space, then made a custom bracket for it, but that's just my speculation.
Thanks jeff for the instructions, i have contaced Dan and he sent me the installation manual but yours better.
Just finished with installation with couple of issues:
1- Check engine code P0129 related to map sensor. I have updated the tuner. Might had to clear it and check again but a second issue is there.
2- A heavy leak between the turbine and the down pipe. (Clamp removed and i can see a space and miss match)
3- can't figure out the rest of the leak cause the second issue was the big and noisy.
I am tired now can't think, ill better rest and think later.
IMPORTANT: See update at the bottom of this post!Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
I found that the connections between the turbine housing, turbo feed pipe, wastegate and downpipe all didn't want to easily match up to each other. I got the best results by doing this:
1) Loosen all exhaust connections from the turbo back to the head of the engine, including loosening the V-band clamp connecting the the down pipe to the turbine housing, and the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the turbo feed pipe. Loosen the head pipe bolts and ball joints just enough to allow sliding/rotating movement. Loosen everything else more to allow large amounts of movement (especially the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the feed pipe).
3) Double check that the wastegate is perfectly seated onto the turbo feed pipe, and put the clamp on (squeeze the clamp into place with pliers, but don't tighten yet).
4) Get the other end of the wastegate firmly seated into the down pipe, and put the clamp on (squeeze the clamp into place with pliers, but don't tighten yet).
5) Wastegate should be guaranteed to be properly seated and leak-free now.
6) Mate the turbine housing to the downpipe and partially tighten the v-band clamp. The goal is to have the clamp prevent the joint from separating, but allow it to rotate if necessary. It should be easy get this joint to line up flush because of all the slack in the connection between the turbine housing and the feed pipe. Loosen those 4 bolts more if necessary to get enough slack.
7) Lightly snug up all 4 bolts (but don't tighten!) holding the turbine housing to the feed pipe. The short flex pipe between the wastegate and downpipe will get flexed/stretched slightly as necessary as these bolts are snugged.
8) Finish tightening the v-band clamp for the down pipe, and tighten the wastegate clamps.
9) At this point, the turbo, wastegate and downpipe should be all locked together as one complete assembly, with all joints completely sealed. There should be no other possible orientation of all these interconnected joints.
10) Loosen the 2 bolts holding the down pipe to the engine. Have someone apply pressure to the turbo to make sure the whole system is shifted as far upward and toward left side of the vehicle as possible as you re-tighten those 2 bolts (reduces contact between the air filter and right-side inner fender liner).
11) Confirm that the air filter will not be too far forward or rearward, contacting anything (like the trimmed air box support). If necessary, have someone apply pressure forward or rearward on the turbo as you tighten the 4 bolts holding the turbine to the feed pipe.
12) At this point, the main turbo system should be locked into place where it should be relative to the engine, via the 3 mounting points to the engine. The rest of the exhaust system back to the engine should now just be in whatever orientation is necessary to allow the turbo system to be where it needs to be.
13) Tighten the pipes to the heads of the engine.
14) Tighten the ball joints in the exhaust.
------------- UPDATE --------------
Prodigy now has a more detailed and different recommendation for how to install the turbo and pipes. This new method worked better for me. Here's their video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOWdymjon_Q]
it's important to have another 1-2 pair of hands to help when making the second wastegate connection. I had one person support the weight of the turbo while I laid under the Jeep, reaching up to shift everything around to align the wastegate connection, then another person slilped the clamp over the wastegate connection while I held it in perfect alignment.
Then when tightening the turbo V-band clamp, do it in stages where you tighten it a bit, then jiggle the connection and tap the clamp with a soft mallet to help get that V-band connection in perfect alignment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
I hope After going about it differently the first go round..this is almost exactly how we achieved success in alignment. Excellent write up that I hope modifies/supplements future versions of Prodigy's install manual.
Your Steps 6 and 10 were critical steps for our install, having done it differently the first time. Adding to step 14, we definitely had to use the impact to get a nice tight seal on those ball joints. I love those joints for their ability to flex around and still get a solid seal.
As Snarf said: your instructions are much superior and professional to PD installation.
i will try these tomorrow as today is a family day. My way of driving is extreme, hope i won't bend any exhaust.
Ok. I am done with the install. Thanks Jeff and everyone. Started the vehicle and got several codes (check engine) manage to clear them. Started driving and had a bad throttle response with another check engine code P2173 (throttle actuator control system - high air flow detected. Cant drive it Had to put my car on a recovery to get it home :(. I will contact PD , i might done something wrong.
A vacuum leak can cause that code. Double check all hoses that connect to the intake manifold. I really hope you didn't mangle any of the intake manifold gaskets while reinstalling it.
As instructed i have connected the passenger side pcv to the intake with chk valve pointing towards the intake and the breather to atmosphere. I am sure that I haven't mangel the seal. The O2 sensors the driver side up-stream white and down black and vise versa on passenger side. I have sent PD my back up file and last tune ( they are so helpful) hope to get the right tune. As I stated before that i have another problem cause i have artech reinforcements kit installed and i have almost 3/4 of an inch clearance plus the return line is so close to it. The only way is aether i cut it or buy another branded axel housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
As the temperature started dropping with the change from summer to autumn over the past several weeks, I started hearing water "rushing" sounds behind the glovebox every time I started the engine, but only if the engine was cold.
After letting the engine cool down, I would open the radiator cap and find that it was a bit low on coolant. At first I just tried topping it off and burping air out of the system, but the problem would just come back after the next full warm-up/cool-down cycle.
I couldn't find any signs of leaking. Scary possibilities started running through my mind, like a slightly failed head gasket either allowing coolant to be burned, or allowing combustion gasses into the coolant.
The total amount of coolant in the system (including the reservoir) seemed to be stable, so that ruled out leaks and burning of coolant. But somehow air gets into the system. I finally decided to just go through and re-tighten all the heater hose clamps (all connections on the new heater hoses that are part of the turbo kit).
The water rushing sound diminished with each warm-up/cool-down cycle after this, and was completely gone after about 2-3 days! It's now been several days with no problems. I'm guessing that a combination of cooler weather causing more extreme temperature swings in the rubber hoses, along with the hose developing a "memory" of the clamp compression, caused the connections to loosen up just enough that air could be sucked in past those connections as the coolant cooled down and contracted, but not loose enough to allow coolant to leak out.
I wonder if it might have been better to use re-use the original spring clamps, which will maintain a steady clamping force even as the hose compresses and develops a "memory". At this point, it's not worth the effort and mess to pull all those hose connections apart and swap clamps. I just hope I don't ever have to re-tighten them again.
I have that same sound when the engine is cold and i start up the jeep. Fluid rushing through the hoses.. Only when the engine is cold.. Which hoses did you re-tighten, i will have to do the same.. but im not sure which ones to look for since i did not do the install.. Jeff and you send pics to me or describe which hoses im to look for? thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
It's the two hoses that run up the middle of this picture, connecting to the heater core:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._cover_top.jpg
Just tighten up all the hose clamps related to those two hoses. Snug them up good, but don't over-tighten. You'll know that you over-tightened when the worm gear skips a tooth. If that happens, it's time to get a new clamp, which can be found at any hardware store. Luckily, this style of clamp can be completely opened up to be removed/installed around the hose without disconnecting the hose, so it's not that big of a deal if you have to replace a clamp.
Just checked my clamps..i was able to tighten them 2 rotations.. they were a bit loose. Whats that breather you have hooked up to?Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
Good news :)
I have done a silly mistake by installing the MAP sesor plug the otherway around. Now everything thing is good. I like it. PD team helped me and i thank them. Thanks to Jeff for giving a guide for trouble shooting. About the water sound behind the dash , i heard it too.
The water sound behind the dash likely has nothing at all to do with the turbo setup. Its been an "issue" Chrysler has been looking at for a while.
That's the breather for the PCV system, which connects to the driver-side valve cover. This is my own temporary setup because the kit at one point had no solution for filtering the air that gets sucked in there (fresh air enters there to replace the oily air that is sucked through the PCV valve/hose into the intake manifold). Prodigy has since started including a breather filter that fits right into the original hose that used to connect to the air filter box. I hacked up my original hoses/pipes for the PCV system to experiment with some alternative setups. I actually have new replacements on order at a dealer so I can finalize my PCV setup and start using the new breather filter from Prodigy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLAjeeper
I didn't know there was more than one way that the MAP sensor could physically be hooked up. Please share details of how it can be accidentally hooked up wrong. We'll try not to tease you too much if it was a really stupid mistake :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
That's expected right after installing the turbo kit. There's probably air in the system from draining/refilling the cooling system. It should work itself out in a few days. You should check the coolant level in the radiator and the reservoir when the engine is cold and add more coolant if necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
In this case for me, it was clearly due to the heater hose connections allowing air into the system. All the clamps were a bit loose (because the hoses had compressed under the clamps over time), and the problem worked itself out after I tightened up all the clamps. I suspect NOLA's water sound issues will now disappear within a couple days. If so, then that's more evidence that the worm-gear clamps are not ideal for this application.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf77
If you have the water sounds AND no/low heat blowing out of some of the vents, then you have a clogged heater core that needs to be replaced. This is a known issue caused by casting sand leftover in some engine blocks. This is covered under warranty. Another possible cause for this is mixing HOAT and OAT coolant, which turns into very nasty/gooey stuff and would NOT be covered under warranty.
If you get the water sound with every cold start, but heat works fine... check your coolant level (radiator AND reservoir). Burp air out of the system and top off the radiator.
If the problem is now permanently fixed, then you just had some stubborn air in the system.
If the total amount of coolant remains stable after you top it off, but the problem keeps coming back, then air is being introduced into the system somehow every time you drive, so you probably have a slightly loose seal somewhere (in my case, slightly loose hose clamps). Worst case would be a bad head gasket allowing some combustion gasses into the cooling system, but that would likely cause more severe problems.
If the total amount of coolant is not stable (losing coolant), then you either have a coolant leak somewhere, or a bad head gasket that is allowing coolant into the cylinders, which is being burned off.
The extension adapter provided by PD for the MAP SENSOR. I am referring to the connection between the extension adapter and the engine harness adapter which can be easily miss installed the slot looks identical either way.
Ok my impression about the kit:
It's good but i have an issues regarding the initial pick up. ie: full throttle at low rpm below 2000 will easily lend to a cut off in power theb gradually it starts boosting. Even once it reaches 4500 i can feel a power loss at 3rd gear Jeff can you confirm if it happen to you also since you have a manual transmission.? I used an app called dash command for data logging and discovered that the timing has been set to +12 for most of the rpm's and gears.
My boost is reading 8.1 psi. I didn't install the AEM WIDE BAND yet so i can't determine the fuel ratio.
A few possibilities I can think of:Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
1) You don't have the latest tune improvements that Jessee and I have been testing. We received the updates as custom tunes. I don't know if the improvements have been pushed out to the official Prodigy tune on Diablosport's servers yet. The latest tune has big improvements in the lower RPM area.
2) I have found that the turbo does not respond well to sudden full throttle, especially at low rpms. The engine seems to bog down a bit with sudden full throttle. From low rpms, instead of stomping on the throttle, try a smooth transition to full throttle. You can still quickly transition to full throttle, but just don't suddenly stomp on it. At higher rpms (4000+), it will respond more quickly to sudden full throttle, but smooth throttle transitions will always give you the best results because it allows for the turbo to keep up with your demands. I believe this is just a normal characteristic of a relatively large turbo. It doesn't bother me, because I prefer smooth acceleration transitions anyway (your drivetrain probably prefers acceleration transitions as well).
3) The turbo can't really produce a lot of boost until somewhere above 2500 rpm. 1st gear accelerates quite well below 2500 rpm, but if you are in a higher gear, then you'll always get the best results from downshifting to get rpms above 2500 rpm if you really want to accelerate. That's one way the automatic transmission would be better. If you use a lot of throttle with the auto transmission, it will downshift. The manual transmission gives us the opportunity to be lazy and wish we could just accelerate quickly from lower rpms :)
I think I need a more detailed explanation of this to understand it. Are you talking about driving steadily in 3rd gear at 4500 rpm, then stomping on the throttle? If so, then there will be an initial lack of power as the turbo spools up. This is boost lag.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
Now we've got 3 people making about 8.0-8.2 psi boost. Jessee increasingly appears to be the outlier with 9 psi boost! This really makes me want to crank the boost up to 9 psi with a manual boost controller to experience some extra fun :)Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
I made my data log and ill send it to PD for the custom tune. My only concern for low RPM because i do extreme dune bashing with almost 15 jeepers in the desert. We climp high dunes. We sometimes race down to top as you posted couple pages back. This requires initial pick up (i am not talking about turbo spool but the vehicle tends to cut till it reach 2300 then it respond then the turbo spool.Quote:
Originally Posted by UselessPickles
Regarding 3rd gear. Once i put full throttle while in seconds and shift to 3rd till it reach 4500 here where i feel the loos of power then it come back at 5800 ( the turbo sound different at that stage).
This Friday i am going to the dunes to try it. Might shoot a video :)
I got a nice data log of full throttle boost in 2nd gear today and made a chart from the data:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...t_2nd_gear.png
Interestingly, I don't even hit 8 psi in 2nd gear. I do hit 8 psi (barely) in 3rd gear. It's normal to not get as much boost in lower gears where engine speed is increasing quickly and the engine is under less load. I think this concept might possibly explain why I'm getting a bit less boost than NOLA and jeepsking: I have a bare-bones 2-door with tiny stock wheels/tires (very light, low rotational inertia of tires/wheels), which would result in less engine load and quicker increases in engine speed as compared to a heavier jeep with bigger tires.
UPDATE: I had an exhaust leak causing a small loss of boost. Details later in the thread here: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post3705
New boost curve:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ar_update1.png
I confirmed with Prodigy that the new improvements to the tune are not yet available on Diablosport's server. Most of your issues should disappear once you can get the updated tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
Also, in deep sand, it's quite fun and relatively safe to rev the engine up and dump the clutch. Tires will initially lose traction for a nice 4WD "burnout", but as they dig down into the sand, they have more surface area contact with the sand and gain traction quickly for a nice launch that doesn't shock the drivetrain as if you did the same on dry pavement.
I don't think I've experienced anything like this. I'd wait to see if this issue goes away with the updated tune before worrying about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
Yes! I still have not heard what my turbo and BOV sound like from outside the jeep as it drives by.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepsking
Ok... time to finish documenting the stage 2 upgrade. I left off with a new power steering hose installed and a new/relocated coolant reservoir.
I didn't get a lot of pictures, but most of it is quite straightforward.
* Remove the wastegate, replace the hose fitting with a different type of hose fitting, and replace the spring with a new spring. Two people are required to replace the spring, because you need to have someone hold the wastegate together while you remove all the bolts holding it together. Same for putting it back together with the new spring. Re-install the wastegate.
* Remove the hose fitting from the turbo compressor outlet and replace it with a plug (a grub screw). I used plumber's thread tape here to prevent leaks. This step is required because the wastegate will no longer be getting its boost source from the turbo compressor outlet (details later).
The intercooler install is the fun part. Remove the grill. If I have to tell you how to remove it, then you shouldn't be attempting the turbo install :)
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ll_removed.jpg
I used blocks of scrap wood under the intercooler to help get it into its proper position before marking and drilling holes to mount it. It's a tight fit, but it does not require any trimming of the grill.
NOTE: I have a manual transmission, so I didn't have to deal with replacing the transmission cooler. That's an extra step (and cost) for anyone with an automatic trans.
Here it is propped up by a block of wood for a test fit:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...r_test_fit.jpg
And some details of the final result to give you an idea of how it should be positioned...
It touches the back side of the grill in a few spots:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ntercooler.jpg
This plastic here needs to be trimmed to make room for the intercooler hose (both sides). A Dremel with a routing bit was used for the rough cut, then a sanding drum bit to clean it up:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._clearance.jpg
The instructions say to just completely remove the thin flexible air deflector material in this area, but I chose to try to keep as much of it as possible. An xacto knife cut through that material quite easily.
And here you can see that cylinder that's part of the A/C condenser, right behind the intercooler:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ntercooler.jpg
I had to gently, but firmly, push on that cylinder to bend it slightly backward at its base. This reduced the amount of pressure it applies on the intercooler against the grill.
Once you have test fitted the intercooler and trimmed the plastic, I got the best results from mounting the intercooler before hooking up any hoses. This is how I got my intercooler perfectly centered. Instructions have you connect the intercooler to the turbo before mounting it, but I found this made it extremely difficult to get the intercooler lined up with the holes to get the bolts in, and impossible to get it centered.
To connect the turbo to the intercooler, you need to slightly loosen the compressor housing bolts so that the compressor housing can rotate. The power steering reservoir also needs to be un-mounted so that it can be moved out of the way. It's easiest of you also remove the air filter so you have more room to push the power steering reservoir aside.
The silicone elbow is fed in from the engine bay through to the grill area, and connected to the intercooler. It's tight in there, so be prepared for some frustration. A small amount of dish soap helps the silicon hose slip onto the intercooler. Then the compressor housing is rotated forward, popping the silicon elbow onto it. The end result looks like this:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...bo_rotated.jpg
Before you get too far ahead, double-check the clearance between the intercooler hose and the trimmed plastic. I had to remove the silicone elbow and do some more trimming.
The power steering reservoir doesn't quite fit in its original location. You need to remove the mounting bracket and trim a couple locating tabs off of it (Dremel cut-off wheel worked well) so that the mounting bracket can be rotated upside down and slightly tilted like this:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ir_bracket.jpg
And a plastic rib on the reservoir's mounting tab needs to be trimmed a bit so that it can be mounted under the bracket instead of on top:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ir_mounted.jpg
I added a few washers to drop the reservoir a bit lower. Without the washers, the hood would contact the reservoir's cap when closed.
The other side of the intercooler is a bit easier to hook up. A silicone elbow is similarly fed through from inside the engine bay to connect to the intercooler. Then the charge pipe (with BOV) is connected to that elbow. There's two A/C lines that will need to be gently bent to make room for the pipe:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._clearance.jpg
The last silicone elbow connecting to the throttle body is different from that of the stage 1 kit, so you'll have to transfer the IAT sensor over to the new part (if upgrading from stage 1).
All that remains is to hook up the vacuum/boost lines to the wastegate and BOV. I'll save that for another day.
I guess I'll just finish up now, since I've already fully documented my wastegate and BOV setup elsewhere. Just some copy, paste, and edit work...
So as I've already discussed in a few other places on JeepLab's forum, I did not follow Prodigy's design for the BOV and wastegate lines. Go back to this post to see some details I already covered about where the wastegate line gets connected with stage 2, and where it really should get connected: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?14...ull=1#post2740
Quick review...
This link has cool info and pictures to explain stuff: http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-...eed-ebc-47532/
http://www.miataturbo.net/attachment...need-ebc-2-gif
The wastegate should be connected to position "B", between the intercooler and the throttle body.
Stage 1 has the wastegate connected to position "A". Since stage 1 has no intercooler, this is fine. Without an intercooler, there is no significant difference in pressure measured from position "A" or position "B".
The official instructions for stage 2 have you connect the wastegate to position "C". This post explains why position "C" is bad: http://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-...32/#post574757
For my install, I used one of these to add a boost source at position "B" for my wastegate:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=BCS
http://jeeplab.com/attachment.php?at...3&d=1409091246
Here's the boost source for my waste gate:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ost_source.jpg
I zip-tied the waste gate line to the BOV line, and at two points on the radiator fan shroud. One of the points is simply tied to an existing wire that is secured to the fan shroud. I had to drill a small hole through an "arm" of the fan shroud closer to the BOV to add a zip tie there and hold the wastegate line away from the exhaust down pipe.
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...egate_line.jpg
And here's how my BOV line is teed into an existing vacuum source on the intake manifold:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...2/bov_line.jpg
And some pictures of the final result:
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._installed.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...r_hood_top.jpg
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._hood_side.jpg
They should just make this thread their install manual.
Pickles, that ^^ is the best compliment ive ever seen. Well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
Thanks :)
And there's so many details that could be better explained if I had taken the time to take more pictures, and many details I did not describe because they are already explained well in the install guide. After trying to document my install as best as possible, I have a new appreciation for how much effort would be necessary to create a complete, detailed, step-by-step install guide.
I still have a few more details that I will get to documenting eventually. I have a final PCV hose setup now (until I decide to try working in some oil catch cans in the future), an idea for a better location for the coolant reservoir, and a story about a tiny power steering fluid leak that became a serious leak requiring immediate attention after I tried fixing it.
I may have shot flames out of my exhaust :eek:
After a full throttle acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear, I quickly let off the throttle and shift into neutral (with the intention to shift into 6th gear as soon as the engine speed comes down) around 50mph, because I'm on a public road and want to avoid speeding. A split second afterward, I hear a significant muffled "pop" come from behind/below the jeep.
This has happened a few times recently. My wife heard it the other day and also immediately wondered if I had just shot flames out the tailpipe.
Has anyone else experienced this?
I wonder if this is an indication that the tune is a bit too rich?
I might have to stick my GoPro on the back of the jeep and attempt to re-create this situation at night.