Another Turbo Option from Prodigy Performance?

Prodigy is testing a different turbo with their kit. This one is a Precision instead of a Garrett.

Quote:

---

Wicked acceleration with Precision Turbo. Still testing.
So far 0-60 4.26 Seconds!

---

Source: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...type=1&theater

0-60 mph in 4.26 seconds! That's ridiculous!

Not sure yet whether this is part of Stage 3 (does it require the custom forged pistons they showed off a while ago?), or if it can directly swap in for the Garrett in the Stage 1/2 kits.

I did get confirmation that this Precision turbo spools up quicker and at lower rpms than the Garrett!

If this doesn't require forged pistons or any other internal engine mods, I'm going to have a hard time choosing between upgrading my turbo or buying tires/wheels!

I would skip the Prodigy Pretend Performance go with this instead:

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/p...dds_355_tt.pdf

Garrett is a household name. Ive never heard of the other ones. Does that factor in? or does the other have the same pedigree?

it smells like the garret got too expensive for prodigy, or these other guys offered them a deal. whats really going on here is my question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FLIPmeOVER

Garrett is a household name. Ive never heard of the other ones. Does that factor in? or does the other have the same pedigree?

it smells like the garret got too expensive for prodigy, or these other guys offered them a deal. whats really going on here is my question.

---

Garrett is expensive, but so are Precision Turbos. Precision turbos are a big-big name in the Diesel Engine Tractor Pulling world wide. Personally, I would use Turbonetics,

Precision is a big name in the after-market turbo world. Quick summary of what I read about them:

They started as a Garrett distributor. Then started making custom modifications to the turbos and reselling the modded Garretts (made their own compressor wheels, etc). When they got big into that and advertising that they made the turbos better, Garrett didn't like that and ended the distribution license. Precision then had to make the whole turbo, including parts of it that they had no prior experience with. They had reliability issues early on, but have improved since then and are now a respected turbo manufacturer.

You can't directly compare Garrett to Precision, because there aren't any turbos with the same exact specs from both companies. The result is that for a given engine, setup, power goals, etc., you may find that Garrett happens to have a combination of specs available that is more ideal for you than anything from Precision, or vice verse.

Based on the limited info so far (0-60 mph in 3.26s, spools quicker, spools at lower rpm, still being tested), it sure sounds to me like cost is not the primary driver for this.

Quote:

---

Not sure yet whether this is part of Stage 3 (does it require the custom forged pistons
!

---

Pickles.. Keep you,posted. With luck I should be rolling late next week

BK

I got confirmation that this Precision turbo is a direct bolt-in replacement for the Garrett. It's actually more expensive than the Garrett. It will be an upcharge option for the turbo kit.

They haven't done a dyno comparison yet for a solid objective comparison, but it sounds promising.

I wonder if they'd do something like an exchange for existing Prodigy customers - that would be something right?

If it turns out to be as good as it sounds so far, they'll simply be finally delivering on the promise of "huge low end power" that they advertised in early marketing materials. Only seems fair to help us early adopters out who would have gladly paid a bit extra for the upgrade option if it had been available.

*****MODERATED****

Im trying to keep an open forum where all ideas are accepted. however, there is too much back and forth with things that are slightly off topic, and then the response to those posts. It bores me, and I'm certain others are bored by it also.

So, a message to all - Stick to the topic, and if someone posts something you don't like or feel is not relevent, don't respond to it. keep the thread moving as it should. I'll clean out the stuff thats off topic.

****Carry On!****

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

If it turns out to be as good as it sounds so far, they'll simply be finally delivering on the promise of "huge low end power" that they advertised in early marketing materials. Only seems fair to help us early adopters out who would have gladly paid a bit extra for the upgrade option if it had been available.

---

I'm with you. I'm generally happy with the turbo system. When the boost comes online the jeep is a rocketship. I cant' fathom the feel of being on boost throughout the entire functional driving range, if boost is achieved at or below 2000rpm. I would/will be first in line to try out the new precision turbo if it is either direct replacement or minimal effort to swap.

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._sixty_424.jpg

Source: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...type=1&theater

I was told that this was with 2 adults in the Jeep and at 83*F

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/..._sixty_424.jpg

Source: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...type=1&theater

I was told that this was with 2 adults in the Jeep and at 83*F

---

That's ridiculously fast. At that point you're as fast or faster than many many sports cars. Cars meant for speed.

Some excaples under/around $40k:

Hyundai Genesis 3.8 R-spec coupe, $34k, 348hp, 5.0 seconds
Chrysler 300 SRT8, $5k 470hp, 4.3 seconds
Mitsubishi Lancer Evoluation GSR, $42k, 4.8 seconds
Chevy Camaro SS1LE 43k 4.3 seconds
Ford Mustang GT PRemium $40k 4.3 seconds
Subaru impresa WRX Special Edition, $30k, 4.7 seconds

The Precision Turbo option has delivered excellent performance for us so far. This is a much more aggressive setup. Fuel economy is down some but maybe that's because I can't keep my foot out of it. It truly is sports car fast. I am trying to get the time to make some video of the setup so people can experience what the system looks like piece by piece and what it sounds like. Prodigy Performance has delivers best in class performance. Videos soon to come. Do some research on Precision Turbo. All of the big names in High HP run Precision units. Garrett in my opinion is considered a reliable workhorse where as Precision is considered a more Extreme performance Version. IMO

We will also be testing a performance torque converter with a higher stall speed. I am expecting this to lower 0-60 times even further. (sub 4s although traction will now be a big factor) We also expect this to bring the Prodigy Jeep into the 12 second quarter mile times! (currently 13.3) I am being very careful to remain consistent on testing numbers and not to ever skew the results as to never deceive the public. If you have any questions let me know. As for now the schedule goes as follows.

1. Video 0-60
2. Video product walk through
3. Video sound clips
4. Dyno with Precision turbo at stage 2 boost level set by wastegate spring 0.5bar (no boost controller)
5. Install torque converter
6. Video track runs and achieve first World's First Wrangler in the 12s
7. Install boost controller, return to dyno and achieve World's first Wrangler over 400RWHP ++++

Piece of cake. As long as you have a Prodigy Turbo kit LOL

This just keeps getting more interesting/exciting!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boosted1

We will also be testing a performance torque converter with a higher stall speed.

---

No love for us with manual transmission Jeeps? Is there any possibility for improvements, such as:

* Clutch and flywheel kit (stronger clutch, lighter flywheel). The stock flywheel must be very heavy, because a Dodge Caravan with the same exact engine free-revs like a Formula 1 car compared to my Wrangler. It would be interesting to try to reach a good compromise between lighter flywheel, while still reasonably resisting stalling in slow off-road situations.

* Mods to the manual trans to make it shift more quickly? I think it takes me almost a full second to shift from 1st to 2nd gear because of the long throw and how long it takes for the 2nd gear synchros to do their job. Maybe I just need to be more forceful to make the shift happen faster?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boosted1

7. Install boost controller, return to dyno and achieve World's first Wrangler over 400RWHP ++++

---

Do you expect to achieve this reliably on stock engine internals, or is this where the forged pistons become necessary/recommended?


You seem to have left a very important step out of your schedule: Send UselessPickles a Precision turbo for back-to-back dyno comparison between the Garrett and Precision on the same vehicle, same dyno :) I also need to make a boost curve chart for the Precision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

You seem to have left a very important step out of your schedule: Send UselessPickles a Precision turbo for back-to-back dyno comparison between the Garrett and Precision on the same vehicle, same dyno :) I also need to make a boost curve chart for the Precision.

---

*raises hand*

Jeeplab's Prodigy turbo has been on the dnyo thrice and will gladly take Pickle's system and test it first! :)

Seriously though - I'm highly considering picking one up as MPG doesn't concern me (though mine actually improved with the turbo) and drive-ability is everything. Keep us updated.

pickles jeep is a 2 door soft top right? stock wheels? Pretty much every other jeep in america is heavier than that rig. I think its unrealistic to say that a prodigy turbo promises a 4.24 0-60.

Snarf's turbo on the other hand, lifted with 37s would be more of a barometer for the rest of us. Snarf hook up your unit and see if you get what pickles got.

Because of how much variation there is in mods, tire size, 2 vs 4 doors, etc, no one can promise any specific acceleration performance numbers for any performance mod. Prodigy is not promising YOUR jeep will do 0-60 in 4.24s. What Prodigy is doing, though, is testing with a stock 2-door Wrangler, which is a solid baseline configuration of the vehicle. This allows you to compare to reported 0-60 and 1/4 mile results from car websites/magazines (which are also based on stock vehicles).

Stock 2-door Wranglers are reported to do 0-60 in the 6.8-7.2s range, and 1/4 mile around 15.5-15.8s.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FLIPmeOVER

pickles jeep ...
... see if you get what pickles got.

---

I did not get this 4.24s 0-60. This is Prodigy's test Jeep with a new/different turbo than what Snarf and I have. It's also an automatic transmission, which is faster than the manual transmission (both Snarf and I have manuals).

do we have a JL 0-60?

I dont have access to the JL Turbo. Snarf has it, but im not sure his diablo unit does 0-60s like the one i used when i did the RIPP 0-60.

Snarf....also is very gentle with Jesse's Girl.

Maybe if we all plead he will hook up a video cam and drop the hammer for us.

The InTune (handheld tuner that comes with the Prodigy kit) does not do 0-60 or any other performance measurements like the Trinity does.

If you have an Android phone/tablet, you can get a bluetooth OBDII adapter and purchase the "Torque" app, which uses the OBDII adapter for monitoring, data logging, and also does 0-60 and 1/4 mile measurements.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

The InTune (handheld tuner that comes with the Prodigy kit) does not do 0-60 or any other performance measurements like the Trinity does.

If you have an Android phone/tablet, you can get a bluetooth OBDII adapter and purchase the "Torque" app, which uses the OBDII adapter for monitoring, data logging, and also does 0-60 and 1/4 mile measurements.

---

I have a BT adapter and paid torque app. I might have to do a 0-60 video. Depends on how much i value my clutch. I'm guessing its around 6 seconds or perhaps just under. But..my guess means nothing. its truly all about the launch and a 1st to second shift. I think the real beauty of the turbo is the passing performance..call it 20-60 or 30-90. That's where your drive-ability comes into play.

Just saw the video Lil red on drag strip posted on prodigy facebook site (impressive ) 13.2 sec.

i dont know if its pression 6266 because it's look like but it may have prodigy special modified compressor or turbine.

Let's wait for the upgrade price.

Anyway i will remove my kit because summer just started here and the temp reaching above 100F. I will fix some bent area and may be apply a ceramic coat to the exhaust rather than wrap it For the next season (might be with the mighty pression setup and some real tune).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snarf77

I have a BT adapter and paid torque app. I might have to do a 0-60 video. Depends on how much i value my clutch. I'm guessing its around 6 seconds or perhaps just under. But..my guess means nothing. its truly all about the launch and a 1st to second shift. I think the real beauty of the turbo is the passing performance..call it 20-60 or 30-90. That's where your drive-ability comes into play.

---

Gotta get there in second gear or you have no shot at 6 seconds. I was only ever under 6 seconds COMPLETELY pushing 2nd gear into the red. If you have to shift again, you will not make it.

I think you might be screwed regardless with 4.88s. You might not do 60 in second gear.... Pickles? the math?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeepLab

I think you might be screwed regardless with 4.88s. You might not do 60 in second gear.... Pickles? the math?

---

Depends on tire size. I hit 64 mph at the end of 2nd gear with my 3.21 gears and 28.5" (actual size) stock tires.

So a quick calculation shows that you would need at least 40.6" (actual size) tires to hit 60 mph in 2nd with 4.88s

Here's a picture of the Precision turbo:

click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...sion_turbo.jpg

Source: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...type=1&theater


And here's a teaser video Prodigy posted on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...type=2&theater



A bit unrelated, but still a new thing from Prodigy, is that they now use TIG welding for their pipes:

click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/.../tig_welds.jpg

Source: https://www.facebook.com/prodigyperf...type=1&theater


Looks quite a bit nicer than the welds on my pipes. I've been told that the pipes cost quite a bit more to manufacture now because of this. I'm guessing this has something to do with the increased prices for the turbo kits on their website.

Some new details about the Precision turbo...

• It's a $495 upgrade option at the time of purchase of a turbo kit.
  
• If you already have a turbo kit with the Garrett, it costs $1350 to purchase the Precision turbo by itself.
  
• Unlike the Garrett, the anti-surge porting on the Precision is not optional for the sake of appearances only. It's actually required to avoid compressor surge at lower engine speeds (see holes all around the compressor inlet in the picture I posted earlier).
  
• Prodigy reports that you really feel the Precision "kick in" at about 2000 rpm, compared to the Garrett having a similar feeling at about 3000 rpm. Note that this does not indicate where the turbo starts making max/target boost. In a 2nd gear acceleration, my data logs show target boost with the Garrett at about 4000 rpm: http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ar_update2.png. The quick increase in acceleration as boost quickly ramps up is what you really notice/"feel". Since the Precision should spool up more quickly (in addition to at lower rpm) than the Garrett, I'm predicting full/target boost around 2500 rpm in a 2nd gear acceleration.
  
• Prodigy reports that the Precision makes similar peak power in the upper rpm range as the Garrett (about 370 whp +/-). So quicker spooling, more boost/torque/acceleration at lower rpms, without sacrificing the high rpm rush.

And the most exciting piece of info about the Precision turbo: I decided to take one for the team, bite the expensive bullet, and order one to experience for myself. When it arrives, I'll start a new thread and post pictures :) I'll take some side-by-side comparison pics of the Garrett vs Precision when I do the install. One of the first things I'll do after the install is create a new 2nd gear acceleration boost chart so we can see exactly how much sooner/quicker the Precision really spools up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

Some new details about the Precision turbo...

[list][*]It's a $495 upgrade option at the time of purchase of a turbo kit.
[*]If you already have a turbo kit with the Garrett, it costs $1350 to purchase the Precision turbo by itself.
[*]Unlike the Garrett, the anti-surge porting on the Precision is not optional for the sake of appearances only. It's actually required to avoid compressor surge at lower engine speeds (see holes all around the compressor inlet in the picture I posted earlier).
[*]Prodigy reports that you really feel the Precision "kick in" at about 2000 rpm, compared to the Garrett having a similar feeling at about 3000 rpm. Note that this does not indicate where the turbo starts making max/target boost. In a 2nd gear acceleration, my data logs show target ]

And the most exciting piece of info about the Precision turbo: I decided to take one for the team, bite the expensive bullet, and order one to experience for myself. When it arrives, I'll start a new thread and post pictures :) I'll take some side-by-side comparison pics of the Garrett vs Precision when I do the install. One of the first things I'll do after the install is create a new 2nd gear acceleration boost chart so we can see exactly how much sooner/quicker the Precision really spools up.

---

Sweet. Looking forward to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

Some new details about the Precision turbo...

• It's a $495 upgrade option at the time of purchase of a turbo kit.
  
• If you already have a turbo kit with the Garrett, it costs $1350 to purchase the Precision turbo by itself.
  
• Unlike the Garrett, the anti-surge porting on the Precision is not optional for the sake of appearances only. It's actually required to avoid compressor surge at lower engine speeds (see holes all around the compressor inlet in the picture I posted earlier).
  
• Prodigy reports that you really feel the Precision "kick in" at about 2000 rpm, compared to the Garrett having a similar feeling at about 3000 rpm. Note that this does not indicate where the turbo starts making max/target boost. In a 2nd gear acceleration, my data logs show target boost with the Garrett at about 4000 rpm: http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ar_update2.png. The quick increase in acceleration as boost quickly ramps up is what you really notice/"feel". Since the Precision should spool up more quickly (in addition to at lower rpm) than the Garrett, I'm predicting full/target boost around 2500 rpm in a 2nd gear acceleration.
  
• Prodigy reports that the Precision makes similar peak power in the upper rpm range as the Garrett (about 370 whp +/-). So quicker spooling, more boost/torque/acceleration at lower rpms, without sacrificing the high rpm rush.

And the most exciting piece of info about the Precision turbo: I decided to take one for the team, bite the expensive bullet, and order one to experience for myself. When it arrives, I'll start a new thread and post pictures :) I'll take some side-by-side comparison pics of the Garrett vs Precision when I do the install. One of the first things I'll do after the install is create a new 2nd gear acceleration boost chart so we can see exactly how much sooner/quicker the Precision really spools up.

---

I'm sure I'll need one shortly thereafter. If you can "feel" the boost hitting at least 500rpm lower, then its likely a worthwhile investment.

This should be an interesting first post... My Prodigy Performance Stage 2 kit with Precision Turbo just arrived today. Should be going on this weekend. I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now and figured I should make an account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MatthewLee

This should be an interesting first post... My Prodigy Performance Stage 2 kit with Precision Turbo just arrived today. Should be going on this weekend. I've been lurking in the shadows for some time now and figured I should make an account.

---

Welcome!

Please give us some pics of your install!

Lucky! You'll be the first to provide consumer feedback on the forums about the Precision. Can't wait to hear about it.

Mine should arrive this weekend, but I won't be able to install until the following weekend (June 28).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JeepLab

Welcome!

Please give us some pics of your install!

---

I'm doing everything Saturday. I'll send some unboxing pictures tonight when I get it to the shop. I've reviewed the installation procedure and pickles install thread. Is there anything I should be particularly aware of?

Just don't rush, double check everything, and don't assume everything will naturally fall into perfect position without some thought and deliberate effort. Especially all the exhaust pipes.

That's one thing I'm still planning to improve upon while I'm swapping my new turbo in. My air filter currently contacts the plastic wheel well liner. I need to loosen everything up and focus on getting the turbo into perfect position. I think the key to this will be to pre-fit the turbo (with air filter installed) to the downpipe (not connected to anything else) and focus on getting the downpipe oriented perfectly to set the position of the turbo. I think the downpipe mounting brackets should be the first thing to be tightened up and locked into final position.

Pay special attention to routing of various hoses and O2 sensor wires, use zip-ties as necessary to hold things in position to avoid rubbing between hoses and other components. The install instructions don't specify exact routing.

And when trimming the radiator core support to make room for the intercooler hoses, put in the extra effort to test fit the hoses then trim more plastic if necessary to avoid direct contact between the hose and the plastic if possible. That's the other thing I plan on improving with my install during the turbo swap, because my intercooler hoses are pressed firmly against the trimmed plastic right now.

Speaking of the intercooler, I found it much easier to get the intercooler centered and firmly mounted first, THEN attach the passenger side hose to it. This approach is also necessary if you want to properly test fit the hoses to the trimmed plastic. Following the install instructions exactly makes it a bit easier to get the hose attached, but makes it more difficult to get the intercooler centered. Be ready to pop the grill on and off several times as you make small adjustments to get the intercooler perfectly positioned (unless you don't care about perfection). The mounting brackets for the intercooler are flexible and can be bent for more fine tuning of the location/orientation of the intercooler.

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

Just don't rush, double check everything, and don't assume everything will naturally fall into perfect position without some thought and deliberate effort. Especially all the exhaust pipes.

That's one thing I'm still planning to improve upon while I'm swapping my new turbo in. My air filter currently contacts the plastic wheel well liner. I need to loosen everything up and focus on getting the turbo into perfect position. I think the key to this will be to pre-fit the turbo (with air filter installed) to the downpipe (not connected to anything else) and focus on getting the downpipe oriented perfectly to set the position of the turbo. I think the downpipe mounting brackets should be the first thing to be tightened up and locked into final position.

Pay special attention to routing of various hoses and O2 sensor wires, use zip-ties as necessary to hold things in position to avoid rubbing between hoses and other components. The install instructions don't specify exact routing.

And when trimming the radiator core support to make room for the intercooler hoses, put in the extra effort to test fit the hoses then trim more plastic if necessary to avoid direct contact between the hose and the plastic if possible. That's the other thing I plan on improving with my install during the turbo swap, because my intercooler hoses are pressed firmly against the trimmed plastic right now.

Speaking of the intercooler, I found it much easier to get the intercooler centered and firmly mounted first, THEN attach the passenger side hose to it. This approach is also necessary if you want to properly test fit the hoses to the trimmed plastic. Following the install instructions exactly makes it a bit easier to get the hose attached, but makes it more difficult to get the intercooler centered. Be ready to pop the grill on and off several times as you make small adjustments to get the intercooler perfectly positioned (unless you don't care about perfection). The mounting brackets for the intercooler are flexible and can be bent for more fine tuning of the location/orientation of the intercooler.

Good luck!

---

Awesome, thank you. I plan on going slow and steady. I'm concerned with getting my old exhaust off. I figured the bolts are going to be a pain. I also have to figure something out with the return to the oil pan because of my skid plate system. I'm also expecting some interference with the new exhaust routing because of the plates as well. We shall see...

Get some PB Blaster and pre-soak all the exhaust bolts first thing on the day of the install. Have a sawz-all or other cutting tool handy just in case. I gave up and just cut through one of my stock exhaust bolts. Some of the bolts holding the exhaust to the engine head are a pain to get to. Hope you have small hands and patience :) Then getting the stock catalytic converters out is like a brain teaser puzzle. Maybe it's easier if you can have the Jeep up on a lift, but I did it all laying on my back under the jeep with the front end on jackstands giving me just a bit of extra room to work.

Is anybody having a squeeling noise on there 3.6? i just did my water pump and the squeel is back again im getting really sick of the noise

Look what FedEx brought me today!

click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...compressor.jpg

click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...on/turbine.jpg


The registration card indicates that the model number is "5862SP"

First 2 digits are the compressor wheel inducer diameter: 58mm
next 2 digits are the turbine wheel exducer diameter: 62mm
The "SP" just indicates the compressor housing type: "S" style (4" inlet, 2.5" outlet), "P" for ported (anti-surge porting)

This has the T4 tangential .58 A/R turbine housing.

Here's the product page for the 5862 turbo: http://www.precisionturbo.net/produc...2-CEA-reg-/233


Both the compressor and turbine wheels are machined from solid pieces of metal. The compressor wheel is machined from a block of forged aluminum. As far as I know, the Garrett turbo has standard cast compressor and turbine wheels. Here's Precision's marketing about their machined wheels:

Compressor wheel: http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/C...ssor-Wheels/37
Turbine wheel: http://www.precisionturbo.net/tech/C...bine-Wheels/41

Here's a closeup of my compressor wheel. The machining marks are visible:

click for full size
http://www.uselesspickles.com/files/...ssor_wheel.jpg


I can't see any machining marks on the turbine wheel, so maybe the turbine wheels are put through some smoothing/finishing process, or maybe the machining of the compressor wheels is intentionally more coarse for some aerodynamics reason? I did find some pics of Precision's old vs new turbine wheels and confirmed that mine definitely appears to be the newer "CEA" turbine wheel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2k13jk

Is anybody having a squeeling noise on there 3.6? i just did my water pump and the squeel is back again im getting really sick of the noise

---

This should probably be a new thread. Seems quite unrelated to the new Precision turbo. But, no, I don't have an annoying squealing noise.