I started a blog which I am moving to a thread here. So here goes.
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I started a blog which I am moving to a thread here. So here goes.
I'm no Usless Pickles or JeepLab so please forgive my poor posting skills. I have a 2013 JKU with 3.6 Pentastar and a Magnuson Supercharger. I've been running it for about 10k miles and I have been experiencing some of the "tune" issues that others here have experienced too. I'm going to start working through the issues and hope to blog the process here.
To start with I'm going to clean up the PCV system. Why, because recently I discovered that the vacuum from the s/c is strong enough to collapse the PVC hose from the install kit. At the same time the make-up air elbow that connects the make-up air line to the valve cover is easily kinked when installed per instructions. The kink can (and likely does) limit make-up air. When the PCV system doesn't function properly and/or flow freely the intake air-fuel charge becomes inconsistent which would make a tuner's job quite difficult.
Just as important as making the system work right is enhancing it. I'm going to install a "catch can" which most of you are probably familiar with. The catch can is designed to remove oil from the vented crankcase gases so that the oil doesn't get routed through the $6k supercharger I bought. Oil in the PCV suction line will again, alter the air-fuel mix and make a tuner's job difficult. It will also settle on parts and gunk them up.
After I get the PCV system improved I'm headed to a tuner for a dyno pull and graphing - then a custom tune - then a final dyno run and results graph for comparison.
To start with here is a picture of the lines I'm going to change.
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The catch can I purchased is from Billet Technologies.
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I am planning on using 1/2 inch stainless tubing and hard fittings like this next picture. I will use flexible terminations at the block and inline as needed to keep the overall installation flexible for everyday driving wile eliminating as much variation in PCV flow.
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I'm going to custom bend the tubing and bead or flair the ends as needed. The tools I'll use are a Rigid tubing bender:
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And an Aircraft Tool Supply tube beading set:
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BTW, if you are skeptical about the need for a catch can just remember that we are running 5W20 fully synthetic (I hope!) motor oil which is very easily picked up and moved around.
Here's pic of a working can:
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I, for one, don't want the risk or reality that oil is passing into my supercharger!
This is a good one. I saw the blog and was concerned people would miss it. Anyone with an SC should read this thread.
Im going to check my own set up, and install a simliar system.
gbaumann, how much was the catch?
Here's my truck.
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All in with shipping $155.00 from Billet Technology. http://billettechnology.com/bt/news/...nal-catch-can/
All in with shipping $155.00 from Billet Technology. http://billettechnology.com/bt/news/...nal-catch-can/
Where does the caught oil go? does it drain back into the pan?
So many supercharged jeeps on the road, what happens when this gets back into the SC?
wear?
The genesis of the PCV system we all have is concern for the environment. Crankcase gasses used to vent to the environment which put hydrocarbons in the atmosphere. The oil from the vapor used to drip down a tube to the road below. Modern systems are specifically designed to send the crankcase gasses and oil back through the engine to burn them and reduce direct emissions.
So to answer your question, yes - wear and deposits on sensitive compressor rotors, altered air/fuel charge, parties through the system. No matter what's in the PCV line we don't want it in our forced induction motors.
Im about to strip my SC to install the high alt pulley. Im going to take it apart and look inside. Will report back.
I wouldn't open up a supercharger unless you need to open it to change the pulley. Disconnect your PCV tube from the supercharger and look inside. Is it dry? Mine isn't. After 10k miles I got a finger coated with oil from inside the tube. I'll pull my PCV tube and see if I can get a good pic of what it looks like.
Here's a good white paper on PCV oil separation.
http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/PCV...oval%20102.pdf
I found this in a fourm on supercharged mustangs.
One additional part I would like to mention here that is not required but certainly recommended by most is the oil separator. Depending on the brand you choose, this item will be important very early in the assembly process. An oil separator simply removes any oil from the PCV hose prior to entering the plenum. When the engine is under boost, the SC will actually suck oil through the PCV and draw it into the SC and then into intercooler (IC) itself. Over time, the oil clogs up the vents on the IC reducing its effectiveness…not to mention making a big mess inside the plenum, SC, and the IC. The two pics below show a clean IC vs. an oil-soaked IC.
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This is bad news bears. how do you take your intercooler apart to find out ? and then do you take the plenum apart?
what happens if oil was to get into the engine?
Don't take your intercooler apart. I doubt any Magnuson S/C has been on the road long enough to foul the intercooler with oil. My project here is to jump ahead of that issue and improve air-fuel, vacuum and PCV in prep for a custom tune.
PCV is specifically designed TO introduce oil from crankcase gases into the engine and burn it to eliminate the emissions from the environment. It works fine for naturally aspirated engines. But we've added forced induction and larger injectors. We need to run 93 octane fuel at the high cylinder pressures that come with S/C or turbo boost. Why 93 octane? Because there isn't a higher octane out there. When under boost I am guessing that intake vacuum increases above stock. The increased vacuum likely exceeds the PCV system design and draws more oil than intended. The increased crankcase gasses and oil affect air-fuel mix and thus octane.
this would be a good video. Show the danger, then the correction.
Awsome thread. for a problem people dont know they have.
Is this issue just magnuson? or is it an inherent problem with all Superchargers. is the turbo immune?
does anybody know how to properly install a oil catch can
I'm no expert but will post my fab and install and advise on the choices I make on materials, mounting location, hardware, techniques and such. I hope to have lots of pics and get feedback from you all as I go. First step is to get my catch can which seems to have been misdelivered by USPS. I'm tracking it down. I have 1/2 in. stainless tubing and tools pulled together. I need the can and a few stainless compression fittings. I hope to start this weekend.
OK. My catch can arrived! Many thanks to BilletTechnology.com for overnight delivery of a replacement for the can that was lost in the mail. Great customer service!
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I am planning on using hard lines rather than hoses. But the hoses come with the can no matter what and you can never have enough spare parts in the shop.
Here is the 1/2 O.D stainless steel tubing that I purchased from www.onlinemetalsupply.com.
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Next is out to the truck to pick a location for the can. Billet Technology doesn't make a kit specifically for the JK so I purchased their "fender mount" kit which has the swivel and bolt. I figure it will afford me the most options. Also, most catch cans are attached to the engine somewhere near the intake. It's OK to do this but there is a better practice. It is best to mount a catch can as far from heat as possible so that vapors will condense on the way to the can. If you put the can in a really hot location more oil may stay in the gasses. I know that the real difference in temperature under the hood is probably one degree or two but I'm going to try to be as picky as I can.
Here's a picture of the mounting option I chose.
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It's really tight under the hood. So the best location I can find is to the left of the brake master cylinder. It's about as cool a location as I can expect. Looks like there's enough room to service the can.
Yep. Looking good.
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But . . . the horn is in the way so the horn will have to be relocated. Here are the factory horn mounting parts. I'll see if I can re-use them or reconfigure to get the horn out of the way.
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Not much wire here.
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Here's what it looks like from above.
Awsome thread. You are toing to change to stainless tube for everything?
Keep it coming. Great info.
Im on the edge of my seat. Your going to bend that stainless pipe?
OK. I was able to get back at it today. First step - relocate the horn. The horn bracket (in an earlier picture) is mounted to the inside of the driver's side fender. Just forward of the mounting stud is another stud with a ground. I'm going to swap the ground to the original horn location, modify the horn mount bracket and relocate it to the forward stud.
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The final mods to the horn bracket took a few trials (and errors). But ultimately this is how it went. You need to remove a portion (shown), re-bend the tab that holds the bracket straight and re-bend the end to turn the horn mounting hole 90 degrees. I was tempted to just cut the support tab off but thought better of it because it really does do a job so I kept it.
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Like so:
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Final shape:
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Before mounting the horn I decided to move the windshield washer hoses downward so they would more easily clear the can. To do this I had to loosen the ABS platform bolt that attaches to the top of the fender. With this bolt out I was able to just move the washer hoses down to a clear area.
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And the horn goes into it's new location. I could have mounted the horn much lower into the fender well. But I figured "high is dry" should be my philosophy under the hood.
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Next I mounted the catch can. I removed the bracket from the can. I used the bracket and a center punch to drill a pilot hole for the bolt location. Then I used a step-drill to enlarge the hole in the sheet metal to fit the mounting bracket for the catch can. All of this will be de-mounted and painted or treated before I'm finally finished. First, however, I want to get it all to fit and work.
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And the catch can finally goes in.
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