Billet Technology Catch Can on RIPP Supercharger

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10-12-2014, 05:23 PM
JeepLab

Billet Technology Catch Can on RIPP Supercharger

You can find the thread on the Magnuson SC clean up by gbaumann, (thanks bud! great thread) The purpose is stopping oil vapor working its way back into the Supercharger through the breather tube.

Im going to follow suit and mount one on a RIPP SC and see if we catch some oil in it.

I talked to Vortech about this specific issue, and the guy I talked to, really did not take the issue seriously. He told me if there was oil working its way back into the Vortech supercharger, then I must have had an oil leak. Obviously, a person who either didnt want to confirm that this could happen, OR just someone how didn't know what I was talking about.

Whatever. Doesn't matter to me. Im going to investigate and correct as best I can.

I heard a rumor that RIPP is aware of the possibility of this issue and they have a plan to offer their own catch can option. If anyone would sniff this out it would be Ross from RIPP. (all unconfirmed)

What im about to do is independent of instruction from RIPP. I'm just following gbaumann as think the issue he presents is one that may be universal to Superchargers. And for the $150 that the billet technology catch can costs, its stupid not to use one to protect your power mod investment.

Now to figure out where to mount it.
10-12-2014, 05:31 PM
JeepLab

2 Attachment(s)

Here are some shots.

Billet technology sent me all their mounts so we can work out some different mounting options.

Here is a shot of the can itself

Attachment 1325

Attachment 1326
10-12-2014, 05:34 PM
JeepLab

4 Attachment(s)

Mounts!

Attachment 1327

Attachment 1328

Attachment 1329

Attachment 1330
10-12-2014, 08:30 PM
gbaumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepLab

You can find the thread on the Magnuson SC clean up by gbaumann, (thanks bud! great thread) The purpose is stopping oil vapor working its way back into the Supercharger through the breather tube.

Im going to follow suit and mount one on a RIPP SC and see if we catch some oil in it.

I talked to Vortech about this specific issue, and the guy I talked to, really did not take the issue seriously. He told me if there was oil working its way back into the Vortech supercharger, then I must have had an oil leak. Obviously, a person who either didnt want to confirm that this could happen, OR just someone how didn't know what I was talking about.

Whatever. Doesn't matter to me. Im going to investigate and correct as best I can.

I heard a rumor that RIPP is aware of the possibility of this issue and they have a plan to offer their own catch can option. If anyone would sniff this out it would be Ross from RIPP. (all unconfirmed)

What im about to do is independent of instruction from RIPP. I'm just following gbaumann as think the issue he presents is one that may be universal to Superchargers. And for the $150 that the billet technology catch can costs, its stupid not to use one to protect your power mod investment.

Now to figure out where to mount it.

Let me know if I can offer any help or a second pair of hands.
10-13-2014, 08:42 AM
JeepLab

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaumann

Let me know if I can offer any help or a second pair of hands.

You sir, are invited!
10-13-2014, 09:40 PM
FLIPmeOVER

you can just mount where gbaumann mounted right?

Billet tech also makes a mount that sticks to the fuse box i think.
10-16-2014, 06:03 PM
Pznivy

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLIPmeOVER

you can just mount where gbaumann mounted right?

Billet tech also makes a mount that sticks to the fuse box i think.

g baumann moved the horn to place it. I'd like to see JL find a more simple location. We are watching you JL!
10-17-2014, 03:10 PM
JeepLab

4 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pznivy

g baumann moved the horn to place it. I'd like to see JL find a more simple location. We are watching you JL!

I did find a more simple location. Its also SC specific. gbaumann's location works for the MAG. I was looking for something to sit in the void area right in front of the intake on the RIPP. With the RIPP kit you change a reservoir that sits right there to something smaller. It leaves space for the can.

It really might have been the easiest fab work of my career.

There is a bolt right there that holds the bracket to the fuse box. It sits kinda in a plastic cup. So i dremeled out a notch for the billet technology's Z bracket and sat it right in. Super easy.

Attachment 1342

Attachment 1343

Attachment 1344

Attachment 1345
10-17-2014, 03:22 PM
JeepLab

1 Attachment(s)

This is a great shot of the notch I cut with the dremel.

I wanted the bracket to stick out at a specific angle. this notch being cut carefully made it so that I didn't have to make the bolt hold the bracket straight with clamping pressure. It sits in the notch, and points right were I want it.

Attachment 1346
10-17-2014, 03:25 PM
JeepLab

1 Attachment(s)

Here is a shot of the whole set up. With the can installed.

Attachment 1347

It all fits perfectly, and there is no play in the bracket. I can get my hand under there and unscrew the can, but I think that I would opt to unscrew the bracket from the fender entirely and lift it out for easy access to the can. Its one bolt.
10-18-2014, 05:40 PM
Pznivy

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepLab

Here is a shot of the whole set up. With the can installed.

Attachment 1347
.

You gonna cut that hose to the SC and put it on the can?
10-19-2014, 11:42 AM
2k13jk

The catch can attaches to the pcv hose notnto the hose from the air filter
10-20-2014, 09:30 AM
JeepLab

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2k13jk

The catch can attaches to the pcv hose notnto the hose from the air filter

AHHHH beat me to it. I'll post some pics of the hose when I get it mounted.

It fits so well in that spot you would think you just clip the air filter hose
10-20-2014, 02:35 PM
UselessPickles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2k13jk

The catch can attaches to the pcv hose notnto the hose from the air filter

Ideally, you would have a dual catch-can setup: one for the PCV hose and one for the vent hose to the air filter.

The ventilation hose usually only flows from the air filter into the crankcase to allow fresh air to replace the oily air that was sucked through the PCV hose. But under high engine load conditions, there's enough piston ring blow-by to slightly pressurize the crankcase, causing oily air to flow backward through the vent hose, into the intake.

On a boosted engine, you get a lot more blow-by than an NA engine. I would even say that it's probably more important to have a catch can on the vent hose, because oily air will be coming through that hose during situations where it's most critical to avoid pre-ignition/detonation.

With the Prodigy turbo, the vent hose is just vented to atmosphere with a small filter (Prodigy did this to avoid oily air on boost, allowing for more/safer power). After some full throttle, I can smell oil. I'd actually like to eventually run the vent through a catch can and back into the air filter to avoid the oily smell after hard acceleration.
10-22-2014, 10:18 PM
Yoinkers

Quote:

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

Ideally, you would have a dual catch-can setup: one for the PCV hose and one for the vent hose to the air filter.

The ventilation hose usually only flows from the air filter into the crankcase to allow fresh air to replace the oily air that was sucked through the PCV hose. But under high engine load conditions, there's enough piston ring blow-by to slightly pressurize the crankcase, causing oily air to flow backward through the vent hose, into the intake.

On a boosted engine, you get a lot more blow-by than an NA engine. I would even say that it's probably more important to have a catch can on the vent hose, because oily air will be coming through that hose during situations where it's most critical to avoid pre-ignition/detonation.

With the Prodigy turbo, the vent hose is just vented to atmosphere with a small filter (Prodigy did this to avoid oily air on boost, allowing for more/safer power). After some full throttle, I can smell oil. I'd actually like to eventually run the vent through a catch can and back into the air filter to avoid the oily smell after hard acceleration.

Does the turbo need a catch can also? Is this a pentastar problem? did the SC people not know this would happen? seems like something that a mechanic would anticipate.
10-22-2014, 11:00 PM
UselessPickles

Depends on your definition of "need".

I don't think any of the kits *need* a catch. The kits come tuned to account for the effective reduction in octane of the fuel due to oil vapors from the PCV system. Using catch cans removes oil from the air, which can allow for more aggressive tuning.

This is not unique to the Pentastar. All engines with PCV systems (essentially all modern engines) suck oil vapors from the crankcase into the intake. It's normal.
10-23-2014, 10:37 PM
gbaumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

Depends on your definition of "need".

I don't think any of the kits *need* a catch. The kits come tuned to account for the effective reduction in octane of the fuel due to oil vapors from the PCV system. Using catch cans removes oil from the air, which can allow for more aggressive tuning.

This is not unique to the Pentastar. All engines with PCV systems (essentially all modern engines) suck oil vapors from the crankcase into the intake. It's normal.

X2 Pickles. Catch can is step one in dialing in the motor. I got an AME Failsafe A/F gauge and wideband O2 sensor. Installing in a couple of weeks. Then on the dyno for a couple of days to tune the motor. Not for aggressiveness. Tuning to smooth it out and put the power where I want it.
10-26-2014, 09:36 AM
Rexx19

Quote:

Originally Posted by UselessPickles

Depends on your definition of "need".

I don't think any of the kits *need* a catch. The kits come tuned to account for the effective reduction in octane of the fuel due to oil vapors from the PCV system. Using catch cans removes oil from the air, which can allow for more aggressive tuning.

This is not unique to the Pentastar. All engines with PCV systems (essentially all modern engines) suck oil vapors from the crankcase into the intake. It's normal.

When I say "Need" its because I suspedt when JL opens their SC, there is going to be actual liquid oil inside. That MUST add to SC wear. Also someone posted the pic of the mustang's intercooler full of oil. That has to reduce its effectivness.

What happens if you put 100k on a blown engine sucking liquid oil thru the system?
10-28-2014, 03:26 PM
JeepLab

I might be insane, but it seems that the truck instantly drove better once the can was installed. gbaumann, am i nuts? did you like your SC better once the can was installed?
10-28-2014, 04:45 PM
gbaumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeepLab

I might be insane, but it seems that the truck instantly drove better once the can was installed. gbaumann, am i nuts? did you like your SC better once the can was installed?

You're not nuts at all! When the can is working you're getting more reliable air-fuel across different driving conditions. Also the catch can can "throttle" the pcv vacuum and regulate intake behavior (not an intended consequence but we'll take it!). You want to hear nuts? I've convinced myself that certain gas stations have better gas than others. I now believe that all 93 octane is not the same.
10-29-2014, 08:59 AM
bo9roadking

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaumann

X2 Pickles. Catch can is step one in dialing in the motor. I got an AME Failsafe A/F gauge and wideband O2 sensor. Installing in a couple of weeks. Then on the dyno for a couple of days to tune the motor. Not for aggressiveness. Tuning to smooth it out and put the power where I want it.

Where do you install the AME Failsafe gauge and do you replace the factory sensor at the cat with the new wideband O2 sensor? Looking forward to hearing how the install goes and how the tune works for your Magnuson. I'm still waiting on Magnuson for a new tune, but if you have success with the direction you are going, I'll definitely be interested in following in your footsteps.
10-29-2014, 10:26 AM
2k13jk

Billet Technology Catch Can on RIPP Supercharger

When installing a wide a/f 02 sensor you weld in a new bung into the exhaust for the gauge you keep the factory 02 sensors in place
10-30-2014, 06:59 AM
gbaumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by bo9roadking

Where do you install the AME Failsafe gauge and do you replace the factory sensor at the cat with the new wideband O2 sensor? Looking forward to hearing how the install goes and how the tune works for your Magnuson. I'm still waiting on Magnuson for a new tune, but if you have success with the direction you are going, I'll definitely be interested in following in your footsteps.

2k13jk is right. You install the wideband 02 sensor in the exhaust before the catalytic converter. For us Magnuson guys there is a plug on the back of the S/C that you remove and attach the boost gauge tube to.
10-30-2014, 07:43 AM
2k13jk

Billet Technology Catch Can on RIPP Supercharger

On the 3.6 the only remote spot to put a wide band bung is were the 2 pipes meet into one by the transfer case which unfortunately is after both cats
10-21-2015, 09:19 AM
Matsango

I called billet technologies to order the catch can but I didn't know what diameter hoses, lengths and fittings are needed. Any insight on how and where it gets plumbed? Or maybe some pics of connection locations
10-22-2015, 03:27 PM
gbaumann

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matsango

I called billet technologies to order the catch can but I didn't know what diameter hoses, lengths and fittings are needed. Any insight on how and where it gets plumbed? Or maybe some pics of connection locations

If you're installing on a 3.6L Pentastar then the PCV port on the rear of the right side valve cover is 3/4". That's where the crankcase gasses exit the motor. The stock connector reduces the PCV line from 3/4" to 5/8" which is the size of the plastic lines running under the hood. Billet Technologies can fit their catch can with whatever size barbed connectors you need. If you mount the can in a remote location then I recommend hard (plastic or stainless steel) lines rather than rubber tubing. Long hoses that get hot under the hood can (will) collapse under suction which will throw the computer off. Oh, and the make-up air return line going into the rear of the left side valve cover is 5/8" (I'm pretty sure).
10-22-2015, 05:02 PM
UselessPickles

Reuse the stock rubber elbow connector and use a 5/8" barbed hose coupler to connect a 5/8" hose to it. A quality automotive hose should never collapse. The Prodigy turbo kit uses very sturdy cotton wrapped/reinforced rubber hoses made by Goodyear.

For a boosted system, it's most important to put a catch can on the make-up air side of the system (hose that runs from driver side of engine to air intake), because this is where you'll get oil vapors coming out of the engine and into the air intake, coating the compressor and intercooler, reducing effective octane of the fuel while at high engine loads and boost where you really don't want any knocking to occur.

On the PCV valve side of the system (hose that runs from passenger side of engine to intake manifold), oil vapors only flow into the intake manifold when there is vacuum in the manifold (lower engine load, part throttle, on a boosted engine). It is less critical to remove oil vapors under these conditions.

Of course, the ultimate setup is dual catch cans. One on each side of the PCV system.
12-15-2016, 04:09 AM
jeepjk16

can someone post pictures for thier catch can setup? i am not sure how to install the hoses on supercharged engine
thanks
12-15-2016, 09:55 AM
doc5339

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepjk16

can someone post pictures for thier catch can setup? i am not sure how to install the hoses on supercharged engine
thanks

Search my (doc5339) and gbaumann's posts. Sorry that I don't have pictures handy, but I know that both of us posted our setup pictures; gbaumann had a much cleaner setup. They are probably on a Magnuson Supercharger thread on JeepLab.
12-15-2016, 10:05 AM
doc5339

Quote:

Originally Posted by doc5339

Search my (doc5339) and gbaumann's posts. Sorry that I don't have pictures handy, but I know that both of us posted our setup pictures; gbaumann had a much cleaner setup. They are probably on a Magnuson Supercharger thread on JeepLab.

OK, here's my Frankenstein-version, and it works well:

http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?31...entastar/page2
12-15-2016, 10:08 AM
doc5339

[QUOTE=doc5339;6032]OK, here's my Frankenstein-version, and it works well:

http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?31...entastar/page2[/QUOTE

Here is the prettier, probably superior, certainly more difficult gbaumann setup:

http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?18...light=gbaumann
12-17-2016, 10:02 AM
jeepjk16

thanks doc5339
12-17-2016, 10:49 AM
doc5339

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepjk16

thanks doc5339

Anytime, best of luck with your setup.

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