Prodigy Performance 3.6 Turbo DIY Install

[KaiserBill]

"This is the Stage 2 Upgrade Kit for the PRO-2001 Prodigy Turbo Kit for the 2012-2014 Jeep Wrangler. This is a complete Jeep Turbo Kit upgrade that adds our legendary front mount intercooler and increases boost by and additional 2PSI. Everything you need to get the power your Jeep needs on or off-road. With 7 years of development, the finest turbocharging components, OEM level engine management calibrations and extraordinary dyno proven results this package will make your Jeep perform as good as it looks! More Powerful than ANY supercharger!"

From the Prodigy Website... That is funny- Legendary Front Mount Intercooler??? That is funny-- considering this sort arrangement has been around for decades-- one would be almost forgiven if they mistook Prodigy for being the inventors of front mounted intercoolers. And for all that legend what do you get 2 extra PSI!!!! I hope they decided to turn up the boost a little.

[UselessPickles]

Yeah, "Legendary" seems a bit excessive, but that's marketing. The intercooler is very nice, though. Very solid and custom sized to just barely fit behind the grill on the Jeep.

And for all that legend what do you get 2 extra PSI!!!! I hope they decided to turn up the boost a little.

You also get much lower intake temps, so the gains are better than just a small boost increase.

They have plans to turn up the boost, but this seems to be as much boost as they are comfortable selling as a reliable kit on the stock engine. All I know for sure is that they have shared pictures of some forged pistons. They're going to strengthen the engine before adding more boost.

BTW - I heard that one of their customers took it upon themselves to turn up the boost (to somewhere around 12-14 psi, I believe), and ended up requiring an engine rebuild due to the damage that was caused.

[KaiserBill]

Yeah, "Legendary" seems a bit excessive, but that's marketing. The intercooler is very nice, though. Very solid and custom sized to just barely fit behind the grill on the Jeep.



You also get much lower intake temps, so the gains are better than just a small boost increase.

They have plans to turn up the boost, but this seems to be as much boost as they are comfortable selling as a reliable kit on the stock engine. All I know for sure is that they have shared pictures of some forged pistons. They're going to strengthen the engine before adding more boost.

BTW - I heard that one of their customers took it upon themselves to turn up the boost (to somewhere around 12-14 psi, I believe), and ended up requiring an engine rebuild due to the damage that was caused.

I'm not saying the intercooler is bad. I'm just marveling at wording of the ad. From the description you would expect that this Legendary Custom Intercooler would make you espresso coffee, turn your engine into a 500+hp engine, and keep the kids entertained. It looks like a nice package.

My one question about it would be proximity to the to the rest of the engine stuff in your engine compartment-- you have the turbo very close putting out amazing heat. You have the engine putting a decent amount heat, then you have the radiator which is also putting out extra heat and then you have the exhaust manifold. You've got all those heat producing elements in such close proximity to the intercooler tends to reduce efficiency.

Air to Air systems work great at high speeds due to the volume of air flow you get. They tend to really drop of the performance charts when you get off road with slow moving air-speeds. Couple this with the close proximity of the everything under the hood and you start to see performance from your intercooler drop off. It is just one drawback of attempting to put extra things under the hood the original engineers didn't account for or ever intend for you to put under their. I wouldn't scrap the intercooler-- I just wouldn't be surprised that if I spend 4 hours off road at 15mph to see the same sort of performance as I would at 70mph cruising down the highway.

This is specially true for the air intake being right by the engine I understand why they want the turbo to get a nice short straight shot of air. However, that is right in the nexus of heat if you will. It is high up where all the hot air is going to rise to and it is next to the engine. I would like my air intake outside the hood in the clear away from extra heat sources. But that is just me. You're on the trail all day and the air is 80F ambient, then you have the above sources of heat and almost no air flowing into the system other than what the fans for the radiator can draw. I would increase those myself.

Also, does Prodigy offer an oil-cooler kit? That would be a great addition to the system.

[2k13jk]

Do you think itll be worth selling my ripp kit in my 2013 for a prodigy turbo kit

[UselessPickles]

Air to Air systems work great at high speeds due to the volume of air flow you get. They tend to really drop of the performance charts when you get off road with slow moving air-speeds. Couple this with the close proximity of the everything under the hood and you start to see performance from your intercooler drop off.

This is why I painted my intercooler with radiator paint. It radiates heat more efficiently than bare metal. If I had been thinking clearly at the time, I would have left the back side unpainted, because the black color also ABSORBS heat radiation more efficiently! Oh well.

I did have some problems with excessive intake temps on a hot summer day driving hard on sand dunes, but that was with stage 1 (no intercooler) AND an install error that was producing excess boost. I also only had those problems when repeatedly racing up sand dunes at high RPM (5000+ rpm) with boost. I've never seen any signs of excessive heat problems while driving slowly or idling.

Keep in mind that this is an add-on turbo kit that is sized to provide its big gains in the mid and upper rpm range under significant engine load. When crawling around off road at low speed, especially in 4LO, there's just not enough engine load to really spool the turbo up. The engine along with proper gearing is plenty for most non-extreme off road driving. Since the turbo isn't working hard in these situations, it's not generating extra heat. It's essentially just part of the exhaust system. Yes, there is extra exhaust routed through the engine compartment, but that's at least partially balanced by the removal of the stock catalytic converters (which hang directly off the heads of the engine, one on each side). Ceramic coating or heat wrap on the exhaust could reduce heat if that's a concern.

I would like to eventually build some kind of heat shield around the air filter to see if that has any significant effect on intake temps. It should be pretty easy to test with some back-to-back data logging with and without a heat shield. I expect it will have no significant impact at street driving speeds where there's good air flow, and it will probably only slow down the heat soak a bit at low speeds, rather than permanently reduce inlet temps.

Also, does Prodigy offer an oil-cooler kit? That would be a great addition to the system.

Haven't heard of any plans for this. The Pentastar already has an oil-coolant heat exchanger, so I'd guess that oil temps would not be an issue unless maybe you're really beating on it, like continuous high load, high boost operation, desert racing type stuff.

Do you think itll be worth selling my ripp kit in my 2013 for a prodigy turbo kit

I have not driven a RIPP, so can't really comment on how different the performance is, and therefore whether it would be worth switching. Jessee and Ross might be able to provide some insight, but I also think the upcoming update to Prodigy's tune needs to be taken into account before making a comparison.

[gbaumann]

Haven't heard of any plans for this. The Pentastar already has an oil-coolant heat exchanger, so I'd guess that oil temps would not be an issue unless maybe you're really beating on it, like continuous high load, high boost operation, desert racing type stuff.

Have you given any thought to changing your t-stat to the Mishimoto or RIPP 180deg.? I've read a bit about it and it seems you need some custom tuning to adjust fan operation but for forced induction motors lower coolant temp could be a small part of the power recipe. In reading about the t-stat I came across information about the pentastar oil pump system that has a step-up solenoid that gets actuated by the PCM based on temp., RPM, engine load, etc. Again, small items and I AM NOT MAKING AN ACCUSATION but if RIPP's test jeep/motor has a lower temp t-stat and a custom tune which is generating lower engine compartment temps and keeping oil pressure at optimum without taking unnecessary power for the pump then we might start to see a difference in dyno charts. Also, I believe (not 100% sure) that the coolant passages in the heads include the cast-in exhaust runners. I know that GM's 3.6L bi-turbo Cadillac motor works that way. The exhaust helps get the engine up to operating temp faster at low load. At high load the coolant helps prevent damage to the catalytic converters. But, maybe it would be beneficial for the turbo guys to lower exhaust temps across the board and lower heat under the hood.

[KaiserBill]

This is why I painted my intercooler with radiator paint. It radiates heat more efficiently than bare metal. If I had been thinking clearly at the time, I would have left the back side unpainted, because the black color also ABSORBS heat radiation more efficiently! Oh well.

I did have some problems with excessive intake temps on a hot summer day driving hard on sand dunes, but that was with stage 1 (no intercooler) AND an install error that was producing excess boost. I also only had those problems when repeatedly racing up sand dunes at high RPM (5000+ rpm) with boost. I've never seen any signs of excessive heat problems while driving slowly or idling.

Keep in mind that this is an add-on turbo kit that is sized to provide its big gains in the mid and upper rpm range under significant engine load. When crawling around off road at low speed, especially in 4LO, there's just not enough engine load to really spool the turbo up. The engine along with proper gearing is plenty for most non-extreme off road driving. Since the turbo isn't working hard in these situations, it's not generating extra heat. It's essentially just part of the exhaust system. Yes, there is extra exhaust routed through the engine compartment, but that's at least partially balanced by the removal of the stock catalytic converters (which hang directly off the heads of the engine, one on each side). Ceramic coating or heat wrap on the exhaust could reduce heat if that's a concern.

I would like to eventually build some kind of heat shield around the air filter to see if that has any significant effect on intake temps. It should be pretty easy to test with some back-to-back data logging with and without a heat shield. I expect it will have no significant impact at street driving speeds where there's good air flow, and it will probably only slow down the heat soak a bit at low speeds, rather than permanently reduce inlet temps.



Haven't heard of any plans for this. The Pentastar already has an oil-coolant heat exchanger, so I'd guess that oil temps would not be an issue unless maybe you're really beating on it, like continuous high load, high boost operation, desert racing type stuff.




I have not driven a RIPP, so can't really comment on how different the performance is, and therefore whether it would be worth switching. Jessee and Ross might be able to provide some insight, but I also think the upcoming update to Prodigy's tune needs to be taken into account before making a comparison.

I do realize the limitations add-on kits have when it comes to space and so on and so forth. Prodigy has made a very neat package. That cannot be disputed. However, I question why they didn't wrap the entire exhaust system with insulation and add some insulation to the intake as well. I've been thinking about doing it for some time on my 7.8L Diesel Engine. I doubt I will see more than .5% increase in performance but what the hell right? Worked for Jack Burton???? However, I say put the shield around the intake and then add some cool tape to the intake side of the turbo some heat tape to the exhaust and see what you get performance wise. And if that doesn't suite you go for the gusto and put the MW-50 on it!!! Nothing says lovin' like a turbo with a drinking habit! Some times you just need a turbo that drinks like a sailor!

Where I would be concerned the most with a turbo's inter cooler that is air to air is on the low speed side of things. That is always where air to air units really show performance issues. However, you could put in larger fans and change the thermostats settings so they run at lower temperatures say 20-30F lower than normal that way you make up for the inter-cooler's added heat and disruption of air flow to the radiator. This would really help at low speeds.

As for the oil-cooler. I didn't actually know the Pentastar had a dedicated oil cooler that is a nice feature. Now, the only question is can it handle the added heat? Also how much did you increase your oil capacity to account for the turbo unit? That is the big issue, if you cooler cannot handle the extra heat it doesn't help to much. However, I'm betting it is just enough to get the job done at normal driving speeds. You might want to see if you can get a bigger unit for times when you are running the engine hard in an environment where cooling is minimal.

Have you put an Exhaust Gas Temperature Gauge in yet? That is a nice option to have. That way you can tell what is happening in the exhaust part of your system. I need to put on in my truck. But I'm lazy about cutting into the exhaust system.