Reply With QuoteHas anyone had a problem with the wast gate?
Will it show in the log?
What are the common signs?
This is why I painted my intercooler with radiator paint. It radiates heat more efficiently than bare metal. If I had been thinking clearly at the time, I would have left the back side unpainted, because the black color also ABSORBS heat radiation more efficiently! Oh well.Originally Posted by KaiserBill
I did have some problems with excessive intake temps on a hot summer day driving hard on sand dunes, but that was with stage 1 (no intercooler) AND an install error that was producing excess boost. I also only had those problems when repeatedly racing up sand dunes at high RPM (5000+ rpm) with boost. I've never seen any signs of excessive heat problems while driving slowly or idling.
Keep in mind that this is an add-on turbo kit that is sized to provide its big gains in the mid and upper rpm range under significant engine load. When crawling around off road at low speed, especially in 4LO, there's just not enough engine load to really spool the turbo up. The engine along with proper gearing is plenty for most non-extreme off road driving. Since the turbo isn't working hard in these situations, it's not generating extra heat. It's essentially just part of the exhaust system. Yes, there is extra exhaust routed through the engine compartment, but that's at least partially balanced by the removal of the stock catalytic converters (which hang directly off the heads of the engine, one on each side). Ceramic coating or heat wrap on the exhaust could reduce heat if that's a concern.
I would like to eventually build some kind of heat shield around the air filter to see if that has any significant effect on intake temps. It should be pretty easy to test with some back-to-back data logging with and without a heat shield. I expect it will have no significant impact at street driving speeds where there's good air flow, and it will probably only slow down the heat soak a bit at low speeds, rather than permanently reduce inlet temps.
Haven't heard of any plans for this. The Pentastar already has an oil-coolant heat exchanger, so I'd guess that oil temps would not be an issue unless maybe you're really beating on it, like continuous high load, high boost operation, desert racing type stuff.
I have not driven a RIPP, so can't really comment on how different the performance is, and therefore whether it would be worth switching. Jessee and Ross might be able to provide some insight, but I also think the upcoming update to Prodigy's tune needs to be taken into account before making a comparison.
Has anyone had a problem with the wast gate?
Will it show in the log?
What are the common signs?
I had a problem with the wastegate causing about 1.2 psi excess boost when I had stage 1. I had a damaged o-ring on the hose fitting for the boost sensing line to the wastegate, and I also had an exhaust leak where the wastegate mounts to the up-pipe. I'm not sure which issue caused the excess boost.
Any problem with the wastegate would show up as either too much or too little boost, which would show up in data logs. The shape of the boost curve over the entire RPM range could reveal if a wastegate is hooked up improperly too.
Do you suspect you have a problem? What are the symptoms. If you record a data log of full throttle acceleration in 2nd gear, from about 2000 rpm to redline, I can take a look at it and see if there's anything obviously wrong.
Have you given any thought to changing your t-stat to the Mishimoto or RIPP 180deg.? I've read a bit about it and it seems you need some custom tuning to adjust fan operation but for forced induction motors lower coolant temp could be a small part of the power recipe. In reading about the t-stat I came across information about the pentastar oil pump system that has a step-up solenoid that gets actuated by the PCM based on temp., RPM, engine load, etc. Again, small items and I AM NOT MAKING AN ACCUSATION but if RIPP's test jeep/motor has a lower temp t-stat and a custom tune which is generating lower engine compartment temps and keeping oil pressure at optimum without taking unnecessary power for the pump then we might start to see a difference in dyno charts. Also, I believe (not 100% sure) that the coolant passages in the heads include the cast-in exhaust runners. I know that GM's 3.6L bi-turbo Cadillac motor works that way. The exhaust helps get the engine up to operating temp faster at low load. At high load the coolant helps prevent damage to the catalytic converters. But, maybe it would be beneficial for the turbo guys to lower exhaust temps across the board and lower heat under the hood.
I'm not going to mess with thermostats unless Prodigy tunes for it. Modern engines are designed to run at higher temps for efficiency and emissions, and I don't want to risk throwing things out of balance.
Yes, the pentastar does have coolant passages in the built-in header. If exhaust temps are not causing excess under-hood heat, then any attempt to reduce exhaust temps would actually hurt performance. Turbos are driven by the heat expansion of exhaust leaving the engine, and the pressure differential across the turbine.
Speaking of which... minimizing post-turbo exhaust pressure is probably a good thing to look at. Zero exhaust pressure post-turbo would be ideal. A first step would be to actually measure exhaust pressure in the stock exhaust system with a turbo to see if it is a major restriction to begin with. Reducing pressure hear would also improve volumetric efficiency, and reduce post-turbo exhaust temps, which would all work toward reducing under hood temps a bit.
I do realize the limitations add-on kits have when it comes to space and so on and so forth. Prodigy has made a very neat package. That cannot be disputed. However, I question why they didn't wrap the entire exhaust system with insulation and add some insulation to the intake as well. I've been thinking about doing it for some time on my 7.8L Diesel Engine. I doubt I will see more than .5% increase in performance but what the hell right? Worked for Jack Burton???? However, I say put the shield around the intake and then add some cool tape to the intake side of the turbo some heat tape to the exhaust and see what you get performance wise. And if that doesn't suite you go for the gusto and put the MW-50 on it!!! Nothing says lovin' like a turbo with a drinking habit! Some times you just need a turbo that drinks like a sailor!
Where I would be concerned the most with a turbo's inter cooler that is air to air is on the low speed side of things. That is always where air to air units really show performance issues. However, you could put in larger fans and change the thermostats settings so they run at lower temperatures say 20-30F lower than normal that way you make up for the inter-cooler's added heat and disruption of air flow to the radiator. This would really help at low speeds.
As for the oil-cooler. I didn't actually know the Pentastar had a dedicated oil cooler that is a nice feature. Now, the only question is can it handle the added heat? Also how much did you increase your oil capacity to account for the turbo unit? That is the big issue, if you cooler cannot handle the extra heat it doesn't help to much. However, I'm betting it is just enough to get the job done at normal driving speeds. You might want to see if you can get a bigger unit for times when you are running the engine hard in an environment where cooling is minimal.
Have you put an Exhaust Gas Temperature Gauge in yet? That is a nice option to have. That way you can tell what is happening in the exhaust part of your system. I need to put on in my truck. But I'm lazy about cutting into the exhaust system.
You sure do suggest a lot of expensive and complicated improvements for problems for which there is no evidence that they need a solution
Things like exhaust wrap or ceramic coating aren't included in the kit because it's not necessary for daily driving and having some fun on the street. Including it in the kit would drive up the price with diminishing returns for most customers. Prodigy provides a solid, fully functional and complete kit with room for custom improvements if necessary, or if you're the type that thinks the extra money is well spent on such improvements.
I haven't seen any evidence of any heat issues at low speeds off road. Most low speed off road driving does not involve continuous periods of high engine load that would create a lot of boost and heat. Mudding is probably the most obvious exception to this. I do not like to play in deep mud, so I'm not concerned. Even when I was on the sand dunes repeatedly attempting to climb a dune with the turbo screaming at 5000+ rpm on a sunny 85*F summer day, moving slowly up the dune, getting stuck, backing down, trying again, about 6-10 times in a row, the coolant temp gauge would only move to about half way between the middle and 3/4 marks. After coming to a stop and idling, the temp gauge would move back to center after several minutes.
The oil system already has a larger than typical capacity: 6 quarts. I would be interested in data logging the oil temperature, but that doesn't seem to be available for logging on the Diablosport InTune.
I don't have an exhaust temp gauge. I'm not tweaking the turbo system to run any differently than designed, so I'm trusting that Prodigy designed it well enough and putting my money and effort into more useful things than double checking their work. I'm no expert on tuning, so I would really even know what to watch for with exhaust temps.
The tapes and wraps aren't really outrageously priced items. It is just a matter of wanting to put them on that can be annoying. It is easier then the system is being installed to wrap the stuff then put it on the engine.You sure do suggest a lot of expensive and complicated improvements for problems for which there is no evidence that they need a solution
Things like exhaust wrap or ceramic coating aren't included in the kit because it's not necessary for daily driving and having some fun on the street. Including it in the kit would drive up the price with diminishing returns for most customers. Prodigy provides a solid, fully functional and complete kit with room for custom improvements if necessary, or if you're the type that thinks the extra money is well spent on such improvements.
I haven't seen any evidence of any heat issues at low speeds off road. Most low speed off road driving does not involve continuous periods of high engine load that would create a lot of boost and heat. Mudding is probably the most obvious exception to this. I do not like to play in deep mud, so I'm not concerned. Even when I was on the sand dunes repeatedly attempting to climb a dune with the turbo screaming at 5000+ rpm on a sunny 85*F summer day, moving slowly up the dune, getting stuck, backing down, trying again, about 6-10 times in a row, the coolant temp gauge would only move to about half way between the middle and 3/4 marks. After coming to a stop and idling, the temp gauge would move back to center after several minutes.
The oil system already has a larger than typical capacity: 6 quarts. I would be interested in data logging the oil temperature, but that doesn't seem to be available for logging on the Diablosport InTune.
I don't have an exhaust temp gauge. I'm not tweaking the turbo system to run any differently than designed, so I'm trusting that Prodigy designed it well enough and putting my money and effort into more useful things than double checking their work. I'm no expert on tuning, so I would really even know what to watch for with exhaust temps.
Jegs Super High Temp Exhaust Header Wrap is about $63.99 plus Shipping/Tax for 25Feet you might need two rolls. So about $160.00 total
Jegs Heat Shield Tape (aka Cool Wrap by some manufacturers) rated for 1100F ranges in price from $19.99 to $29.99 depending roll size and some have free shipping so you could get out with perhaps 29.99 + tax
If you want higher heat protection they have a product rated at 2000F for $51.99 +shipping and tax
Now ceramics are great but pricey. This stuff will set you back maybe $350.00 when all said and done. And you can see improvements in performance under the right conditions. When you driving on a sand dune I bet you would notice a difference if you had the right gauges. Most of the time the driver will not be able to tell the difference in performance but it is there.
EGT-- is good to know because you don't have to tune the vehicle to get into a problem area. Certain types of usage can cause dangerous temperatures. Driving at high speeds for prolonged period on asphalt on a 120f day from LA to Vegas can cause issues EGTs. Ideally speaking when you see those numbers climb to some point that is dangerous that is when you would hit the WM-50 system and "BAM!" watch them drop and performance increase.
If I were going to do anything with the exhaust, it would be ceramic coating. I don't really like the idea of having a cloth-like wrap on my exhaust that will be getting dunked in muddy water.
For the cold side, there's not really much to be wrapped. Most of it is elbow-shaped silicone couplers going through very tight places. There's only about 1 foot of actual pipe. Similarly, if anything, I might get that pipe ceramic coated along with the exhaust, but I wouldn't expect any noticeable gain from it at all.
If I were to go with water/meth injection, I would set it up like my brother's system on his STi. It automatically starts at a certain boost level, and ramps up to full flow at a higher boost level (the controller for the system has adjustable end points for this ramp up). His stock intercooler water spray is also integrated into this system to automatically start spraying at some boost level (before meth injection starts), rather than requiring a manual press of the button as it does in stock form.
I think an automated intercooler sprayer with a manual override button (to force a spray) might be a nice way to get some noticeable improvements without getting too intrusive or requiring any custom tuning to fully take advantage of it.
Pickles,
im not sure what the problem is but I'v looked at the obvious as much as I can and now I'm thinking it might be something deeper.
I used to love the way the turbo sounded when you put your foot down and you get that distinctive whine followed by the whoosh when you release, but recently when I accelerate the whine is now mixed with some whoosh ( excuse the funny talk but I have no other way of explaining it) also while accelerating the car tends to hesitate, feels like it's beeing held back at times, and at cruising speed the boost comes in and out, you can hear the turbo spool up and release even though I'm holding a constant speed on a level road and no wind.
Also something weird happened to me on the highway, cruising at 80mph 2800RPM 5th gear the temperature starts to increase at a steady rate, had to slowdown because it didn't look like it was going to stop increasing, this is what I don't understand, same speed at on 4th gear RPM 3500 and the temperature starts to backdown and sits dead center on the gage, tried it again on 5th same speed temp up select 4th higher rpm same speed temp comes down.
My lack of knowledge in terms of reading or maybe interpreting the logs dose not help in getting my point across.
I will try and get a log to you by tomorrow and tell me what you think.
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