Prodigy Performance 3.6 Turbo DIY Install

[KaiserBill]

Please explain what's wrong with my dual catch can setup. It's no different than all other dual catch can setups out there for boosted engines, aside from application-specific mounting/routing details.

It is simply returning the PCV system to a fully closed, functioning PCV system like stock (PCV valve connected to the intake manifold, breather port connected to the air filter area). The only difference is that I add a catch can inline on each side of the system.

Yes, oil vapors do come through the breather hose. This happens when on boost. Piston blowby has to go somewhere, and the crankcase breather is the place it goes. I don't want those vapors going back into my intake, coating the inside of my intercooler (making it less efficient) and lowering the effective octane of the fuel while on boost. I also don't want it to vent to atmosphere, because it stinks (that's what it does right now). Catch can is the solution (specifically a catch can with an oil separator in it).

System is not open-- so it is not venting into the atmosphere. That will not pass emission standards for a 2012 vehicle in any state. So, I highly doubt Prodigy's turbo-kit even touched your PCV. If you're smelling oil at present it is most likely a leak somewhere... Perhaps, have a blown oil seal somewhere....

Blow-by doesn't reach reach the crankcase breather-- because the high pressure crankcase gases are drawn to the low pressure zone in the intake-- this then creates a vacuum in the crankcase that draws air from the valve cover breather to draw in continuous clean air. The more boost created only serves to help create greater pressure differentials within the engine.

[UselessPickles]

So much failure at reading comprehension again

System is not open-- so it is not venting into the atmosphere. ... I highly doubt Prodigy's turbo-kit even touched your PCV. If you're smelling oil at present it is most likely a leak somewhere... Perhaps, have a blown oil seal somewhere....

<outburst removed> Do not speak as if you are the the expert on how my turbo and PCV system are setup. I installed this turbo kit myself. I know EXACTLY what it did and did not touch. I know how a PCV system works. I have researched PCV systems, and improved on the original kit from Prodigy with a custom setup myself while waiting for them to work out details for their final solution to ventilation. You have absolutely no basis for telling me how my ventilation system is setup, because you have clearly not seen how it is setup. Yes, my current setup vents to atmosphere.

Blow-by doesn't reach reach the crankcase breather-- because the high pressure crankcase gases are drawn to the low pressure zone in the intake-- this then creates a vacuum in the crankcase that draws air from the valve cover breather to draw in continuous clean air. The more boost created only serves to help create greater pressure differentials within the engine.

And clearly you have no idea how a PCV system works on a boosted engine.

If the intake manifold is under boost, where is the low pressure zone to draw the blow-by gasses out of the crankcase? The PCV valve closes under boost to avoid a massive boost leak into the crankcase (and boosting the crankcase would be bad). The only path for crankcase gasses to take to a lower pressure zone is through the breather hose, either straight to atmosphere, or to the the air box (or air filter itself, the way I'll have to set it up), depending on how you have it setup. When under boost, crankcase gasses reverse flow through the breather. Those gasses carry oil vapor with them.

Please just never post anything in this thread ever again. Your only contribution to this thread has been to introduce confusion with incomplete, incorrect, and inconsistent claims/explanations about how things work. Go find another forum to shit on.

[KaiserBill]

Just like a how you explained Volumetric Efficiency...

[UselessPickles]

It just occurred to me that you may have failed at reading comprehension and interpreted my description of Prodigy's catch can setup as a description of what I want to do. Try re-reading that post.

[UselessPickles]

Here's a helpful picture explaining the connections in Prodigy's catch can setup:



The "To PCV Tee" hose connects to a tee that connects to both the PCV port and the breather port.


Clarification for those with reading comprehension issues: No, this is not what I will be doing. I do not like this setup. I'm just sharing information about the kit that Prodigy is selling. A helpful way to remember this is that I have said I am going with a dual catch can setup. There is only one catch can in the picture above. Hope this helps

[KaiserBill]

Here's a helpful picture explaining the connections in Prodigy's catch can setup:



The "To PCV Tee" hose connects to a tee that connects to both the PCV port and the breather port.


Clarification for those with reading comprehension issues: No, this is not what I will be doing. I do not like this setup. I'm just sharing information about the kit that Prodigy is selling. A helpful way to remember this is that I have said I am going with a dual catch can setup. There is only one catch can in the picture above. Hope this helps

You still don't understand how it works do you.... The Air from the PCV valve tee is the stuff you are taking out of the engine. The line to the air filter is the air that is being recycled from the process just like a normal PCV system does to meet Emission standards. Finally the oil pan drain line is so you don't have periodically empty out the oil can. Personally, I wouldn't want to add more water vapor and unburnt fuel to my oil then necessary. But that is just me.

You have another another breather line in the engine that pushes fresh air into the system to create the positive pressure.



What you are talking about are open and closed systems. The standard PCV system is closed meaning that there is negative pressure on the crankcase-- some times this is beneficial for the rings. An open system events all the crankcase gases directly out into the atmosphere-- my truck runs like this and you can see the oil, water and unburnt diesel fuel of the engine on the axle. Open systems won't pass smog regulations on new vehicles-- classics will still pass.

All of these systems are positive in that air flow is going from the high pressure region inside of the crankcase to the lower pressure area outside of it. This is a fundamental aspect of the PCV design.

The Dual Can System doesn't actually do anything with the fresh air breather that is pushing make up air into the engine. It just gives you more capacity to catch oil if it is closed. If it is open then it catches oil from the engine compartment that your open PCV line is spewing out.

The Prodigy System is a closed system with an automatic drain system so users don't say-- hey, my catch can filled up with oil and created too much pressure on my PCV Valve and my engine didn't vent properly causing it buck, loose power, and pop a main seal.

[UselessPickles]

The Dual Can System doesn't actually do anything with the fresh air breather that is pushing make up air into the engine.

Is that so? Then explain why this dual catch can kit puts one can on the PCV hose, and the other on the engine breather: http://data.radiumauto.com/PublicDocs/19-0073.PDF

Clearly, Radium Engineering has it all wrong. They have made the classic mistake of forgetting to consult with the expert of all things, KaiserBill, to learn how to properly setup a dual catch can system on a boosted engine!

[UselessPickles]

Moving on...

I met with a local performance shop that specializes in turbocharged performance mods and tuning (Subaru STi, Mitsubishi Evos, Supras, etc) to discuss my catch can plans.

They actually said that they have setup several cars similar to Prodigy's catch can kit, but the guy I spoke with personally prefers to keep the PCV system fully functional to maintain vacuum in the crankcase and continuous flow of fresh air through the crankcase while off boost. Basically my feelings exactly.

So they agree with my dual catch can plan, helped me pick out mounting locations for the cans, and accepted the challenge to fabricate custom mounting brackets for me. I've picked out catch cans that I like. They're going to get pricing on other catch can options that would fit. I need to figure out exactly what fittings/adapters I'll need to hook everything up. Once I settle on which cans to use and purchase them, they'll fabricate the brackets for me, and I'll finish the install myself.

The fittings/adapters for catch cans are ridiculously expensive! Like $14-$25 EACH expensive! I really need to search for and consider lower price alternatives, because I'm up to about $90 in fittings/adapters already.

[KaiserBill]

Moving on...

I met with a local performance shop that specializes in turbocharged performance mods and tuning (Subaru STi, Mitsubishi Evos, Supras, etc) to discuss my catch can plans.

They actually said that they have setup several cars similar to Prodigy's catch can kit, but the guy I spoke with personally prefers to keep the PCV system fully functional to maintain vacuum in the crankcase and continuous flow of fresh air through the crankcase while off boost. Basically my feelings exactly.

So they agree with my dual catch can plan, helped me pick out mounting locations for the cans, and accepted the challenge to fabricate custom mounting brackets for me. I've picked out catch cans that I like. They're going to get pricing on other catch can options that would fit. I need to figure out exactly what fittings/adapters I'll need to hook everything up. Once I settle on which cans to use and purchase them, they'll fabricate the brackets for me, and I'll finish the install myself.

The fittings/adapters for catch cans are ridiculously expensive! Like $14-$25 EACH expensive! I really need to search for and consider lower price alternatives, because I'm up to about $90 in fittings/adapters already.

Awesome-- I hope it works out for you.

[UselessPickles]

You still don't understand how it works do you.... The Air from the PCV valve tee is the stuff you are taking out of the engine.
...
You have another another breather line in the engine that pushes fresh air into the system to create the positive pressure.

No, it's you that still doesn't understand how it works. As I have already explained twice, the Prodigy catch can setup brings BOTH the PCV valve AND the breather port together into a tee, joining together as one hose, then into the catch can.

Learn how to read.