Magnuson Supercharger Clean Up

[bo9roadking]

Sorry if this is a thread hijack. I'm replying because you mentioned the new hardware to eliminate surging. I've had the Magnuson on my 3.6 for about 3 weeks. I ordered it the end of June and didn't receive it until about 3 weeks ago because I was waiting for Magnuson to start shipping them out again. I guess I have the new lighter spring and tune because I don't have any surging.

I still have problems with the auto transmission shifts though. The transmission tends to stay in gear longer and my rpms climb higher before it shifts. I can force an up shift by lifting off the throttle or manually shifting. It is livable, but can be annoying. My only real complaint is that I was expecting the extra torque to allow me to stay in overdrive for longer periods of time on the highway instead of downshifting. The opposite has actually happened.

When I'm going up small inclines where my transmission stayed in overdrive at about 65 mph prior to the supercharger install, now it drops down to 4th and stays in 4th for quite a while unless I force it into overdrive. I seem to be fighting with the transmission because it keeps dropping into 4th. Magnuson says Diablo is still working on trying to get the auto transmission to shift better. I understand that my jeep is heavier and bigger than their test jeeps, so I expected some issues, but I was hoping the extra torque would push me into my seat and hold a gear instead of downshifting one or two gears before it started taking off.

Here is my 2012 Jeep on 40's with 5.13 gears, D60 front axle and D80 rear axle.

[JeepLab]

Welcome Bo9roadking!

Hijack any thread you want buddy! We are happy to have you.

[gbaumann]

Welcome Bo9roadking! Excellent taste in color. Awesome truck! You're not hijacking at all. This thread us about cleaning up a Magnuson SC install and every bit of information counts. We are all in this together. Unfortunately don't hold your breath too long for a Diablosport transmission update. The Chrysler PCM trans side is said to be impossibly encrypted. I've spoken with Magnuson and Diablo. They aren't that far along. But they are working on it. I've started to look into upgrading the trans myself and I found a credible shop in OH that does performance conversions on the NAG-1 trans that we have. Costs about $5,000 but won't change the shift points which is what we are looking for. It will sharpen shifts and change torque converter to make better use of increased torque and HP from the supercharger. The upgrade significantly increases the input torque tolerance from 430 ft.lbs. to 1,100 ft.lbs. It's a major rebuild and upgrade of many parts inside the trans. I'm holding off for now but promised Magnuson that I will share my process and results should I decide to do it.

[bo9roadking]

Welcome Bo9roadking!

Hijack any thread you want buddy! We are happy to have you.

Welcome Bo9roadking! Excellent taste in color. Awesome truck! You're not hijacking at all. This thread us about cleaning up a Magnuson SC install and every bit of information counts. We are all in this together. Unfortunately don't hold your breath too long for a Diablosport transmission update. The Chrysler PCM trans side is said to be impossibly encrypted. I've spoken with Magnuson and Diablo. They aren't that far along. But they are working on it. I've started to look into upgrading the trans myself and I found a credible shop in OH that does performance conversions on the NAG-1 trans that we have. Costs about $5,000 but won't change the shift points which is what we are looking for. It will sharpen shifts and change torque converter to make better use of increased torque and HP from the supercharger. The upgrade significantly increases the input torque tolerance from 430 ft.lbs. to 1,100 ft.lbs. It's a major rebuild and upgrade of many parts inside the trans. I'm holding off for now but promised Magnuson that I will share my process and results should I decide to do it.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm definitely interested to hear about beefing up the transmission. I'm wondering if changing the torque converter would improve shifting? It would make sense, but adding $5k for the transmission rebuild on top of the SC purchase would put me half way to the cost of a V8 install.

I'll probably hold off on throwing more money at the SC and see if Magnuson and Diablo make any progress with the transmission tuning. I'm puzzled though about the transmission shifts because Superchips claims that they can firm up the transmission shifts with their TrailDash tuner. If Superchips can do it, why can't Diablo? My jeep is still drivable, just not as civil on the highway because the transmission doesn't want to stay in overdrive.

[Timmy]

shop in OH that does performance conversions on the NAG-1 trans that we have. Costs about $5,000 but won't change the shift points which is what we are looking

Dang, $5k? What's the cost to convert it to a manual transmission and drive it like a real man? (snicker, snicker... Just kidding, I couldn't resist. Your 40" rig is twice the beast of mine, it makes mine whimper with jealousy.)

[gbaumann]

OK. So parts for SC update arrived from Magnuson today.



and my workday pretty much ended at that time.

[bo9roadking]

Thanks for adding the new information using the new actuator. Sorry to hear that you are having the same issues with the auto that I'm experiencing. It is frustrating that the transmission keeps downshifting to go up hills even on small inclines. It acts like I have less power than stock until the boost kicks in. When the boost kicks in, the additional power causes my transmission to think that I've pressed the throttle almost to the floor for passing someone even though I haven't. The transmission drops into 4th and sometimes into 3rd. At least I know it isn't the weight of my jeep causing the transmission to act up. Once Magnuson/Diablo gets this figured out, the fix should work for my heavy jeep too.

Good point about the Hemi upgrades using the same auto transmission. The transmission can handle the additional power and shifts normally, so there has to be something that is being overlooked when installing a supercharger. I wonder if the RIPP owners are having similar issues on their jeeps?

[gbaumann]

Thanks for adding the new information using the new actuator. Sorry to hear that you are having the same issues with the auto that I'm experiencing. It is frustrating that the transmission keeps downshifting to go up hills even on small inclines. It acts like I have less power than stock until the boost kicks in. When the boost kicks in, the additional power causes my transmission to think that I've pressed the throttle almost to the floor for passing someone even though I haven't. The transmission drops into 4th and sometimes into 3rd. At least I know it isn't the weight of my jeep causing the transmission to act up. Once Magnuson/Diablo gets this figured out, the fix should work for my heavy jeep too.

Good point about the Hemi upgrades using the same auto transmission. The transmission can handle the additional power and shifts normally, so there has to be something that is being overlooked when installing a supercharger. I wonder if the RIPP owners are having similar issues on their jeeps?

So I put 100 miles or so on with the new MAG SC update. My driving experience is identical to Bo9roadking's. What we need is to remap our shift points and alter torque management settings. That said, i have now spent a good 20 hours or so reading everything I can get my hands on about the history, evolution and adaptation of the NAG-1, W5A580, MB 722.6 (all the same) trans that we have. Good news is we have a world class five speed auto! Bad news is it was designed by Mercedes Benz so it's controlled by a TCU from Siemens VDO in Germany. Siemens locks their code up tighter than gold in Fort Knox!

Our transmissions can handle our application no problem. Same gear box appears in Porsche tiptronic brand behind high horsepower/torque engines. Same gearbox is behind some of AMG's most powerful Benz engines. Same goes for Mopar. NAG-1 is right now on the strip running 9 second quarter miles in Challengers.

So far the only reasonably priced solution I can find is a stand-alone trans controller from Powertrain Control Systems (PCS). I do not, however, know if the ECU/TCU combo that make up the Chrysler PCM (powertrain control module) can live with a stand alone unit in the mix. So research continues on how to reprogram the truck to believe its got a manual or to accept the data inputs from someone else's TCU. One nice potentially outstanding feature of the PCS unit is that it will hold two calibrations. For racers it's street/strip. For us it could easily be street/off road. I'll be calling them tomorrow.

[Timmy]

So I put 100 miles or so on with the new MAG SC update. My driving experience is identical to Bo9roadking's. What we need is to remap our shift points and alter torque management settings. That said, i have now spent a good 20 hours or so reading everything I can get my hands on about the history, evolution and adaptation of the NAG-1, W5A580, MB 722.6 (all the same) trans that we have. Good news is we have a world class five speed auto! Bad news is it was designed by Mercedes Benz so it's controlled by a TCU from Siemens VDO in Germany. Siemens locks their code up tighter than gold in Fort Knox!

Our transmissions can handle our application no problem. Same gear box appears in Porsche tiptronic brand behind high horsepower/torque engines. Same gearbox is behind some of AMG's most powerful Benz engines. Same goes for Mopar. NAG-1 is right now on the strip running 9 second quarter miles in Challengers.

So far the only reasonably priced solution I can find is a stand-alone trans controller from Powertrain Control Systems (PCS). I do not, however, know if the ECU/TCU combo that make up the Chrysler PCM (powertrain control module) can live with a stand alone unit in the mix. So research continues on how to reprogram the truck to believe its got a manual or to accept the data inputs from someone else's TCU. One nice potentially outstanding feature of the PCS unit is that it will hold two calibrations. For racers it's street/strip. For us it could easily be street/off road. I'll be calling them tomorrow.

Maybe a dumb question, but how is RIPP dealing with this? They seem to pride themselves on having a perfectly driveable vehicle, so certainly they have had to struggle with the exact same transmission and come out the other side with an answer. I really would look to RIPP and Magnuson for a solution and not go off track trying to find your own. They have just as much, if not more, of a vested interest in trying to get the transmission to work correctly as you guys do.

[gbaumann]

Maybe a dumb question, but how is RIPP dealing with this? They seem to pride themselves on having a perfectly driveable vehicle, so certainly they have had to struggle with the exact same transmission and come out the other side with an answer. I really would look to RIPP and Magnuson for a solution and not go off track trying to find your own. They have just as much, if not more, of a vested interest in trying to get the transmission to work correctly as you guys do.

I don't know how RIPP does it with the autos. I totally agree with you about Magnuson having a vested interest in a good result. We are just on different timetables. I want my truck to work. . . like now. Mag will be happy if my truck works. . . um. . . eventually. BTW i find that patience has an inverse relationship to purchase price. At six grand my clock runs kinda short.

Seriously though, I stay in touch with Magnuson and I share everything that I learn with them. They have been very responsive. In fact, just today I learned that there is a shop in Virginia called Arrington Performance that has proprietary software to calibrate our NAG-1 auto transmissions computers. I personally spoke with the calibration shop there and a tuner who said he can help. They don't get much 4WD business and don't see a broad market for Wrangler TCU calibration. I gave the information to Magnuson and asked if they'd ever heard of Arrington and whether or not Mag would consider teaming up with them to generate a solution for us. I'm waiting to hear back. But I wouldn't have found them without first speaking to the guys who make stand along TCUs who put me in touch with a shop in Washington State that specializes in stand along NAG-1 control. The Washington shop, Sound German Performance, talked to me for over 20 minutes (and we're not done speaking yet). At the end they told me about Arrington and said that us Jeep guys would probably be better with a shop that can get into the stock TCU and calibrate the trans. I was unaware that such capability exists. It may turn out to be a dead end.

I will stay in touch with Sound German Performance because they are working on a add-on TCU that can integrate with a factory TCU and perhaps sometime next year we auto trans guys may have the ability to select a trail calibration and really let the superchargers do their thing off road!