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I ordered my catch can today.
This is why i bought a manual way less headaches on a serious note tho instead of paying 5k to upgrade a light duty tranny why not swap in a 4l80e chevy tranny with a stand alone and be able to have a meduim to heavy duty auto with the option to build and tune to any extent
I ordered my catch can today.
So I put 100 miles or so on with the new MAG SC update. My driving experience is identical to Bo9roadking's. What we need is to remap our shift points and alter torque management settings. That said, i have now spent a good 20 hours or so reading everything I can get my hands on about the history, evolution and adaptation of the NAG-1, W5A580, MB 722.6 (all the same) trans that we have. Good news is we have a world class five speed auto! Bad news is it was designed by Mercedes Benz so it's controlled by a TCU from Siemens VDO in Germany. Siemens locks their code up tighter than gold in Fort Knox!Originally Posted by bo9roadking
Our transmissions can handle our application no problem. Same gear box appears in Porsche tiptronic brand behind high horsepower/torque engines. Same gearbox is behind some of AMG's most powerful Benz engines. Same goes for Mopar. NAG-1 is right now on the strip running 9 second quarter miles in Challengers.
So far the only reasonably priced solution I can find is a stand-alone trans controller from Powertrain Control Systems (PCS). I do not, however, know if the ECU/TCU combo that make up the Chrysler PCM (powertrain control module) can live with a stand alone unit in the mix. So research continues on how to reprogram the truck to believe its got a manual or to accept the data inputs from someone else's TCU. One nice potentially outstanding feature of the PCS unit is that it will hold two calibrations. For racers it's street/strip. For us it could easily be street/off road. I'll be calling them tomorrow.
Maybe a dumb question, but how is RIPP dealing with this? They seem to pride themselves on having a perfectly driveable vehicle, so certainly they have had to struggle with the exact same transmission and come out the other side with an answer. I really would look to RIPP and Magnuson for a solution and not go off track trying to find your own. They have just as much, if not more, of a vested interest in trying to get the transmission to work correctly as you guys do.
Last edited by Timmy; 10-06-2014 at 10:48 AM.
2014 Jeep JKU Sahara, Manual - /OlllllllO\ - 4" Metal Cloak lift, 37" Toyo Open Country's on 20" XD Bully Rims, 4.56 Yukon gears, Mopar High Top Fenders, ARB Front Bull Bar Bumper, ARB Rear Bumper, Teraflex HD Tire Carrier, Teraflex Tire Carrier Accessory Mount, Twin Rotopax mount, Hi-Lift Jack mounted on front bumper, Reverse LED work lights, Warn 9.5ti winch, Synergy Drag Link, Trackbar Relocation Bracket, AMP Power Steps, JK1001 Radio, SpiderShade.
I don't know how RIPP does it with the autos. I totally agree with you about Magnuson having a vested interest in a good result. We are just on different timetables. I want my truck to work. . . like now. Mag will be happy if my truck works. . . um. . . eventually. BTW i find that patience has an inverse relationship to purchase price. At six grand my clock runs kinda short.
Seriously though, I stay in touch with Magnuson and I share everything that I learn with them. They have been very responsive. In fact, just today I learned that there is a shop in Virginia called Arrington Performance that has proprietary software to calibrate our NAG-1 auto transmissions computers. I personally spoke with the calibration shop there and a tuner who said he can help. They don't get much 4WD business and don't see a broad market for Wrangler TCU calibration. I gave the information to Magnuson and asked if they'd ever heard of Arrington and whether or not Mag would consider teaming up with them to generate a solution for us. I'm waiting to hear back. But I wouldn't have found them without first speaking to the guys who make stand along TCUs who put me in touch with a shop in Washington State that specializes in stand along NAG-1 control. The Washington shop, Sound German Performance, talked to me for over 20 minutes (and we're not done speaking yet). At the end they told me about Arrington and said that us Jeep guys would probably be better with a shop that can get into the stock TCU and calibrate the trans. I was unaware that such capability exists. It may turn out to be a dead end.
I will stay in touch with Sound German Performance because they are working on a add-on TCU that can integrate with a factory TCU and perhaps sometime next year we auto trans guys may have the ability to select a trail calibration and really let the superchargers do their thing off road!
Gbaughman it sounds like you have found some promising options for the auto. I like the idea of an add-on TCU that integrates with the factory TCU if it works. I want an Atlas 4 speed transfer case, but the factory TCU only supports one 4L gear ratio which means it only supports a 2 speed transfer case. If the add-on TCU would support a second gear ratio, I could opt for the 4 speed instead of the 2 speed transfer case. The transfer case is not happening this year, so I have time for the add-on TCU to get fully developed.
My main concern is getting the auto transmission to shift better and hold the overdrive gear on the highway. Thanks gbaughman for staying on top of this. I'm in agreement with you on wanting a solution for the auto now instead of some time in the future when Magnuson can fit jeep owners in their schedule. They never should have marketed this SC until the auto worked similar to stock. I'm going to search RIPP forum threads to see if the auto is resolved with the RIPP install or they are experiencing the same problem.
I still drive my jeep, but it is no longer my daily driver like it was prior to the SC install. Until my auto works better, I won't be driving it everyday and definitely not on the highway as often. I've had the SC installed for over 5 weeks and I still haven't received an update on when another tune might be coming out to solve the auto shifting issues.
I don't have a positive feeling on when the next tune will be available because when I bought the SC in June, Magnuson had stopped shipping them. I was told Magnuson was working with Diablo on a tune for the auto before they started shipping them out again and that it would be ready in about a week. I bought the SC based upon that information. Instead of calling after a week, I waited 2 weeks and called Magnuson to find out when the tune would be ready. I was told the tune was still in the works and it was going to take another week. After several more weeks passed, I called Magnuson again and was told a new tune was ready and they shipped my SC in September. The one week time line to work the new tune took more than 2 months.
I installed the SC with the tune and the auto never shifted the same after that. Magnuson has been good at replying to my emails, but they are at the mercy of Diablo to get the tune done and they don't have any updates on when the next tune will be available because they don't have control of tuning the auto's TCU. I know Magnuson will get it resolved, but nobody knows how long it will take.
I'm also wondering after gbaughman made the hardware changes with the bypass that were already installed on my SC, if the SC produces less power now or if the power doesn't start coming on until higher in the rpm range? Did the auto shift better prior to making the change to the bypass except for surging issues with the cruise control? I'd be willing to live with surging and not use my cruise control than live with no overdrive.
Feel free, everyone, to call me Gary. (Or anything else you'd like.) When I made the hardware changes and installed the new tune my power started coming on higher in the RPM range as you surmise. Auto trans shifts worse. Surging is much, much better but not 100% gone. No word back from Magnuson. Does anyone know what manufacturer of our transmission control unit in the PCM? I need that info for Aringtron Performance and they may be able to help us remotely.
It really seems to me that magnuson released a kit that isnt ready to be released yet. Im not favoriting any kit just because i have the ripp kit, but it seems like they the most dialed in kit on the market for the 3.6 so far
Can't answer your question about who manufactures the auto TCU. It would be nice if Magnuson would at least let someone know if they are still trying to resolve the issues or if they are considering this latest attempt as "good enough". As I mentioned in a previous post, I haven't driven my jeep in over a week. I drove it yesterday and in addition to the shifting issues with the transmission, I happened to notice the slight surging that you mentioned. I hadn't noticed it before because I was so concerned about trying to keep my transmission shifting properly. Now that I know what to expect from the transmission, I was driving at about 65-70 mph and noticed the engine surging slightly. It feels like the bypass is trying to determine if the engine should be running without boost and then changes its mind and adds boost, then it decides not to add boost and the cycle continues over and over. It is like I'm slightly playing with the throttle by pressing the gas pedal down and then letting it back up.
I like the power that the SC has added, but if it weren't such a pain to uninstall it, I'd remove it and return it back to Magnuson or at least put my engine back to stock so it drives "normal" until the issues get resolved. I noticed Magnuson post on their FB page that they are installing an SC in a new jeep with an auto. They are going to publish the dyno numbers. It will be interesting if we get a new tune after they work on this jeep. I hope we do.
Do the people running the Magnuson with a standard transmission have any surging issues?
This is all soooo complicated. My head is spinning.
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