Vote for your supercharger of choice

[doc5339]

Amazing that sprintex would be able to come up with as much support as ripp. no one has them, and the one guy that did, took it off. LOL. Thats not a good review.

...and that is why I just decided on going with RIPP!

It was not just your post, or the guy who decided to do an LS3 because he could not get his to work. It was all of the pages I just read about the lack of support that guys with 3.8 liter JKs griped about, along with only 2 owners saying they were happy.

I wish I could put some faith in the Sprintex, but there is not much data out there from owners on the net, and that is possibly due to 3.8 JK guys being disenfranchised by the issues and lack of support the faced years ago. The modern 3.6 JK Sprintex might be awesome for my manual JKUR, but I will never know because other than one YouTube video of a 5.3 LS JKU getting beat in a drag race by an otherwise comparably equipped Sprintex SC 3.6 JKU, no one is saying how great they are except Sprintex.

RIPP may have the advantage of better market penetration and very good marketing, but they are doing something else right to get the brand loyalty from their customers. This is a matter of perspective since all of my research is internet based, however, that internet presence is critical not only to selling a product, but refining and servicing it as well.

Here is my totally unscientific perspective/reasoning for all forced induction options I could find and how I came to a conclusion:

Edelbrock E-Force: heat-soak issues by design, similar to Magnuson, possibly improved, but too new and almost no owner data out there (unknown quantity other than Eaton rotors and solid Edelbrock reputation)

Magnuson: heat-soak, solid base of owners who seem pleased overall, could have been engineered better: to allow oil change, electric pump down low near axle could be an issue regarding water/mud (known quantity)

ProCharger: similar to RIPP, but with almost zero data available even from the company (unknown quantity)

Sprintex: looks great on paper, but still seems extremely susceptible to heat-soak, and if there are happy owners of this product for 3.6, I can't find them; probably because of Sprintex issues with 3.8 SC (understand RIPP went through issues as well, however, it is how these issues were dealt with that matters)

Prodigy Turbo: maybe the best price for the power, likely most efficient system because it is turbo, susceptible to water intrusion, heat is an issue for any turbo system (can require multiple add-ons, turbo timer, etc), fastest 0-60, but not the best for me to install or purchase (higher upfront cost)

RIPP: not ideal power delivery for me, but great peak power, susceptible to water, least susceptible to heat-soak, efficient power delivery, 2nd best 0-60 time, everyone loves them, bugs appear to be worked out (known quantity Vortech V3)

[gbaumann]

Good summary! Now, I don't mean to be un-PC, really. Turbo, centrifugal, roots screw - in the end you could hire a whore to blow the motor. If the PCM is calibrated optimally you'll have a happy ending. If not, you're going to be frustrated (puns intended). All of the available options will get you down the road. All of them can get you over the rocks, up the hills and through the mud with more power than you had before. Just make sure whatever you choose that the manufacturer can support your installation and MORE IMPORTANTLY with calibration. For that reason I am happy to hear you're going with RIPP. We saw how they supported JL and Black Betty.

I can think of more than a few things I wish I had put your kind of thought and consideration into.

[UselessPickles]

heat is an issue for any turbo system (can require multiple add-ons, turbo timer, etc)

The only heat-related issue I have experienced with the turbo was excessive intake temps with the stage 1 kit (no intercooler) after back-to-back repeated attempts to race up a steep sand dune on a hot, sunny summer day. Not unreasonable, if you ask me. With the intercooler installed, I'm not worried about heat at all (of course, I'll still give it a break to cool down a bit after lots of hard driving on the sand dunes). I have monitored coolant temps and intake temps under various conditions and have not seen any evidence of heat being an issue to be concerned about.

A turbo timer isn't necessary if you're smart. Don't park it immediately after doing some full throttle high boost runs. If you just drive sanely when you get near your destination, everything will cool down quicker than idling stationary at your destination. If you do, for some reason, park soon after using all the boost, just let it idle for a minute or so (until radiator fan stops running on high speed).

BTW - turbo timer doesn't work so well on a manual transmission if you like to park in gear

RIPP: ... (known quantity Vortech V3)

One thing to be aware of with the Vortech supercharger is that starting it up at low temperatures can damage it, and is not covered under warranty.

In order to achieve the low noise level of Vortech
superchargers, Vortech specifies manufacturing
procedures that call for minimal internal clearance.
These precise tolerances however are not
conducive to temperatures below 25° F. Therefore,
storing the vehicle in a heated garage and/or
employing the use of an engine block
heater/aftermarket engine blanket is required when
the vehicle is subjected to a "cold startup" in
ambient temperatures below 25° F. Failure to
comply with this may result in immediate
supercharger failure and invalidate the
supercharger warranty.

Source: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/94.pdf

Warranty document also mentions that cold starts void the warranty: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/92.pdf

[doc5339]

Points taken gentlemen. Thank you for your input and advice!

[doc5339]

The only heat-related issue I have experienced with the turbo was excessive intake temps with the stage 1 kit (no intercooler) after back-to-back repeated attempts to race up a steep sand dune on a hot, sunny summer day. Not unreasonable, if you ask me. With the intercooler installed, I'm not worried about heat at all (of course, I'll still give it a break to cool down a bit after lots of hard driving on the sand dunes). I have monitored coolant temps and intake temps under various conditions and have not seen any evidence of heat being an issue to be concerned about.

A turbo timer isn't necessary if you're smart. Don't park it immediately after doing some full throttle high boost runs. If you just drive sanely when you get near your destination, everything will cool down quicker than idling stationary at your destination. If you do, for some reason, park soon after using all the boost, just let it idle for a minute or so (until radiator fan stops running on high speed).

BTW - turbo timer doesn't work so well on a manual transmission if you like to park in gear




One thing to be aware of with the Vortech supercharger is that starting it up at low temperatures can damage it, and is not covered under warranty.



Source: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/94.pdf

Warranty document also mentions that cold starts void the warranty: http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/images/92.pdf

Damn UselessPickles...

Just when I thought I was out, you bring me back in! Just messing with you, I GREATLY appreciate your very thorough analytical perspective.

I really like the Prodigy Stage II, but to trick it out is very expensive and the installation looks like a bitch. I will take another hard look at Prodigy before I pull the trigger. I really love turbos and have extensive ownership experience with turbo diesels; all OEM setups, which makes me less comfortable with a retrofit. Your experiences with the early Prodigy minor durability issues my have stuck in my craw as well.

[doc5339]

Damn UselessPickles...

Just when I thought I was out, you bring me back in! Just messing with you, I GREATLY appreciate your very thorough analytical perspective.

I really like the Prodigy Stage II, but to trick it out is very expensive and the installation looks like a bitch. I will take another hard look at Prodigy before I pull the trigger. I really love turbos and have extensive ownership experience with turbo diesels; all OEM setups, which makes me less comfortable with a retrofit. Your experiences with the early Prodigy minor durability issues my have stuck in my craw as well.

OK, this is more money than I planned on spending but it is about as badass as it can get:

3.6 02 120x120 Cart PRO-2002 2012-2014 Jeep Wrangler Stage 2 Intercooled Jeep Turbo Kit
Precision Turbo (+$295) Turbo Housing: Standard Garrett/Precision
Turbo Bearing: Ceramic Ball Bearing (+$495)
$7,489.00

Catch Can mounted on bracket v2 120x120 Cart Oil Catch Can Kit for 2012-2015 Prodigy Turbo Kits $389.00

Prodigy T4 titanium turbo heat shield pro 1080 120x120 Cart PRO-1080 Prodigy T4 Titanium Turbo Heat Shield $179.00

TOTAL $8,057.00

Questions for you Pickles:
-Do you think that my OEM Clutch, Manual Gearbox, and 4.10 Rear can handle the Prodigy Stage II?
-Am I missing anything in my cart?
-I believe that I read somewhere the need for a 2" lift with the Prodigy Turbo setup; is that really necessary?

[UselessPickles]

Oh, crap. What have I done? I thought you had ruled out the turbo early on because you wanted the more immediate low rpm throttle response of a supercharger.


I'm pretty sure the oil catch can kit is included with the turbo kit now, so you don't have to purchase it separately.

I personally don't think the ball bearing turbo is necessary or worth the extra money. The main reason Prodigy added that option was for people in very hot climates (middle east area) that wanted a water-cooled turbo (ball bearing is water-cooled, journal bearing is oil-cooled). Here's a summary of the differences between ball bearing and journal bearing that I've found in my searching:

* No difference in boost curve. Both are equally capable of reaching the same boost at any given engine speed.

* Ball bearing has slightly less lag (specifically, how quickly it spools up to full boost potential when you stomp on the gas pedal). Garrett claims 15% quicker spooling. My data logs show that it takes my Precision turbo about 0.3s to reach full boost when stomping on the gas around 3500 rpm. A 15% improvement would make that 0.255s. This is most likely imperceptible for a street driver. It may have measurable improvements to lap times at a track. The difference would be more noticeable at lower RPMs where the turbo spools more slowly, so it may possibly have a noticeable improvement for daily driving. If you have money to burn and demand the absolute best, then go for it.

* Ball bearing has much tighter tolerances. A very tiny particle in the oil supply could damage the bearings, whereas it would pass through a journal bearing without any problems. Journal bearings are generally considered more durable.

* Journal bearings are more easily/inexpensively rebuilt.

* With properly routed coolant lines, a water-cooled turbo will cause coolant to continue circulating even after the engine is shut off, reducing the need to let the turbo cool down when parking soon after some "spirited" driving.


Definitely pay for the Precision turbo upgrade. The Precision gives better driveability in "normal" lower rpm part throttle daily driving.


Definitely get the turbo blanket (heat shield). If you don't like the Titanium color, ask if they can get it in any other colors. They don't have any other colors listed for sale, but I was able to get a black turbo blanket. It's possible that this was a one-time special thing they did early on when sampling turbo blankets from different suppliers, but it doesn't hurt to ask.


I have heard of 3 drivetrain failures with a turbo kit so far (including the kit for the 3.8 engine). Two happened at a drag strip with abusive hard launching. One was a clutch, the other was broken axle shaft. The 3rd was a member on this forum that twisted a front driveshaft while driving very hard out in the desert sand dunes in the middle east (Oman, IIRC). If you abuse it enough, you can probably cause similar failures with a stock engine. I don't do any hard launches or other abusive stuff, so I'm not concerned. My entire drivetrain is still stock. I use plenty of full throttle, fast shifts, breaking the tires loose shifting into 2nd gear, etc, but I'm careful to avoid unnecessarily shocking the drivetrain. I never rev the engine up and dump the clutch to launch or when shifting gears, and I fully engage the clutch before applying full throttle.

Another insight into how much the OEM manual transmission can handle: The "stage 3" 12 psi kit for the 3.8 engine is only available for the manual transmission. The 4-speed auto trans couldn't handle the extra torque. That kit produces just over 400 ft-lbs torque at the wheels, similar to recent results for the 3.6 Stage 2 kit with Precision turbo and boost controller set to ~9 psi.

If you really want to beef up the drivetrain, there are higher performance clutches available, and you could upgrade to chromoly axles. I don't think it's necessary unless you want to do some abusive drag racing. Then again, one of this is really specific to the turbo. It applies to any major performance mod.



Yes, a 2" lift is necessary with the turbo kit to guarantee no contact between the front driveshaft and one of the exhaust pipes at full compression. More specifically, it requires 2" bump-stop extensions. Any of the 2" spacer lift leveling (2" front, 1" rear) kits on the market should take care of this. I went for the AEV 2" lift, partly just because they are local to me and I could pick it up the next day rather than wait for shipping. More details here: http://jeeplab.com/showthread.php?13...ull=1#post1824



To get full potential out of the stage 2 kit with the Precision turbo, you'll need to add a boost controller. But I recommend waiting on the boost controller. That's something that can be easily added later. You won't really save any effort/money by including the boost controller from the start. Get everything installed without a boost controller, confirm that everything is running properly without any leaks, enjoy it, get used to the power, take some time to research boost controllers, etc. Starting off with a boost controller installed right away introduces just one more layer of potential confusion if there is a problem with the install. Then some day later, you'll enjoy another relatively small and inexpensive project that gives you a very noticeable improvement.

[doc5339]

Thanks again Pickles! I was pretty close to spending the extra money, however, the 2" lift puts the nix on it for me.

I mainly asked if they OEM drivetrain can handle the Stage II because I am not prepared to mess with drivetrain upgrades maybe other than a stronger clutch.

I would not mind spending over $8k just for the Stage II, but then there is the 2" lift, boost controller, it seems to keep going. I would still say that the Progidy Turbo is top dog, possibly even compared to the various NA engine swap options and even the turbo diesels (for power).

RIPP will work for me, mainly because I can unbolt it and sell it in the unlikely event I want to sell it or do something else.

I like the idea of staying mostly stock because I do drive 99% on the road, and I want to mitigate rollover, rather than to entice one. I understand that making it go faster does not exactly help that argument. My next mod might be brakes, maybe bumper some day.

[UselessPickles]

but then there is the 2" lift, boost controller, it seems to keep going.

If you don't take the Jeep off-road, you could probably get by with a simple leveling kit (0.75"-1.0" spacers in the front only). That's what Prodigy uses (or used at one point) on their test vehicle and never had any clearance issues with street driving. The 2" will absolutely guarantee that there will never be any clearance issue, even at full compression after accidentally going over the top of a sand dune a bit too fast and catching some air (yeah; I definitely need the 2" lift).

A hybrid might work: 0.75"-1.0" spring spacers in the front + 2" bump stop extensions in the front "just in case" to make sure the front driveshaft could never touch the exhaust.

Boost controller is completely optional. The kit has great power without it. Adding a boost controller is just an inexpensive/easy way to add even more power.

My next mod might be brakes

I see this mentioned a lot that you have to upgrade brakes to match engine power upgrades. This is true... for race cars. Race cars need braking capability proportional to their acceleration capability. On a race track, the quicker you can accelerate, the faster you go on the sections of track between the corners, and the harder you have to brake for the corner because you'll be braking from a higher initial speed.

On the street, no matter how fast you can accelerate, you're always going to stop accelerating somewhere around the speed limit. No matter how much power you have, when it comes time to brake, you'll be braking from the same speed. The only things that may require more braking power on the street are much bigger tires and/or more weight (lots of heavy bumpers/armor, towing, etc).

[doc5339]

If you don't take the Jeep off-road, you could probably get by with a simple leveling kit (0.75"-1.0" spacers in the front only). That's what Prodigy uses (or used at one point) on their test vehicle and never had any clearance issues with street driving. The 2" will absolutely guarantee that there will never be any clearance issue, even at full compression after accidentally going over the top of a sand dune a bit too fast and catching some air (yeah; I definitely need the 2" lift).

A hybrid might work: 0.75"-1.0" spring spacers in the front + 2" bump stop extensions in the front "just in case" to make sure the front driveshaft could never touch the exhaust.

Boost controller is completely optional. The kit has great power without it. Adding a boost controller is just an inexpensive/easy way to add even more power.




I see this mentioned a lot that you have to upgrade brakes to match engine power upgrades. This is true... for race cars. Race cars need braking capability proportional to their acceleration capability. On a race track, the quicker you can accelerate, the faster you go on the sections of track between the corners, and the harder you have to brake for the corner because you'll be braking from a higher initial speed.

On the street, no matter how fast you can accelerate, you're always going to stop accelerating somewhere around the speed limit. No matter how much power you have, when it comes time to brake, you'll be braking from the same speed. The only things that may require more braking power on the street are much bigger tires and/or more weight (lots of heavy bumpers/armor, towing, etc).

Just got off the phone with Dan Marra of Prodigy. He said I should be able to get by with just taller bump stops if I am not doing serious off-road stuff; apparently that is how the Prodigy red Jeep is setup.

Dan offered me a good deal, so I guess it ain't over. I am seriously close to "pulling the trigger" on the Prodigy Stage II with Precision Turbo, Journal Bearings, Heat Blanket, and Mishimoto 180 F T-Stat